Knee Jerk

[Hubert Parry]

It never gets nasty at Cheltenham Robin, you paint our fans as if they'll go nuts. A lot of people will boo and a lot more will moan to their mates as they walk out the ground about how shite we are and that'll be it.

Quite. I do think Robin is trying to actualise his utopian vision of a club which abuses its own players and managers with flares going off every five minutes.

[51/84]

Its is not going to turn nasty if we get beat on Tuesday for 2 reasons
1 Only the faithful will be there and
2 You are trying to whip it up

get over it unless you are the chairman and can fund sacking him and Nh and also providing money to a new manager

Robin can you suggest who takes over permenantly
Remember the last time the fans wanted someone big time it nearly killed the club

[CS85]

Worst ive seen at whaddon road was the protest to get gould out,which was only about 30/40 people outside the changing room.
Might have a oap waving a flask about in anger on tues,about as nasty as it will get.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

It never gets nasty at Cheltenham Robin, you paint our fans as if they'll go nuts. A lot of people will boo and a lot more will moan to their mates as they walk out the ground about how shite we are and that'll be it.

Quite. I do think Robin is trying to actualise his utopian vision of a club which abuses its own players and managers with flares going off every five minutes.

Don't forget songs consisting purely of swear words and any women and children being kicked until they decide to go home.

[Robin]

It never gets nasty at Cheltenham Robin, you paint our fans as if they'll go nuts. A lot of people will boo and a lot more will moan to their mates as they walk out the ground about how shite we are and that'll be it.

Quite. I do think Robin is trying to actualise his utopian vision of a club which abuses its own players and managers with flares going off every five minutes.

I think you will find I have said repeatedly our fans never get on the players backs but I do believe they will get on the managers back.

[taxidave]

It cost the club £75k to get rid of Martin Allen, it probably cost us the same combined total to get rid of Bennett and Jones so another £75k should cover the sacking of Yates and Howarth.
Easy come easy go.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

It never gets nasty at Cheltenham Robin, you paint our fans as if they'll go nuts. A lot of people will boo and a lot more will moan to their mates as they walk out the ground about how shite we are and that'll be it.

Quite. I do think Robin is trying to actualise his utopian vision of a club which abuses its own players and managers with flares going off every five minutes.

I think you will find I have said repeatedly our fans never get on the players backs but I do believe they will get on the managers back.

He didn't say you said they did, just that you seem to wish they would. Hence saying it was your vision and not a reality.

[Robin]

Quite a pathetic wind up really, I don't believe in booing our playes unless they are clearly not putting the effort in. The only thing I have said is I enjoy the fans who bring the smoke bombs.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Quite a pathetic wind up really, I don't believe in booing our playes unless they are clearly not putting the effort in. The only thing I have said is I enjoy the fans who bring the smoke bombs.

HA. Robin - you have said countless times how swearing, abuse, booing, drunken behaviour etc are fine and that people who don't like them are being silly, so do not try and change track.

[Laurence]

It never gets nasty at Cheltenham Robin

Quite. If you want to see nasty, move to Cologne and play for the FC.

The next day, five men turned up outside Pezzoni's Cologne apartment and threatened to beat him up. Another threat ("Be careful when it gets dark") was left on the windscreen of his car. A Facebook group called for him to be shot and have his legs broken.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z2iGatrkcT

Anyway, to the matter in hand. What's annoying me is this narrative about Yates being "Tactically naive" (or "clueless" to the less erudite members of this forum). I wasn't there yesterday, but I was at Dagenham the week before when the consensus was Yates had done his homework and outsmarted the Daggers game plan. It wasn't pretty to watch but it worked. Was he a tactical genius last week? No. Was he clueless this week? No. What is clear is that there is a general lack of confidence. He found something that sort of worked and didn't trust himself or the players to change it, until in the space of ten minutes when it was too late. I hope he and the team recover that confidence. I don't think it's a lack of effort or commitment overall, which is when alarm bells should be ringing.

I wonder how many of the posters - particularly on twitter and facebook actually know about football. This isn't Chelsea or Man City that can afford to pay-off managers after a year or two or ten bad games and given the average attendance it certainly isn't a club that has a right to be pushing for promotion the last two seasons, so check that sense of entitlement please. The club is stable (off the pitch), the youth team looks to be producing something, and I don't believe the risk involved in ripping that up is worth taking...at this stage anyway.

That first season with Yates when we couldn't buy a win after Christmas, at least that could be put down to the lack of quality in a squad that was bought at Lidl. But this is a real test for him. I hope he comes through it.

Ok, i'm off to reminisce about the days of Pack, Penn and Summerfield.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

What is clear is that there is a general lack of confidence. He found something that sort of worked and didn't trust himself or the players to change it, until in the space of ten minutes when it was too late. I hope he and the team recover that confidence. I don't think it's a lack of effort or commitment overall, which is when alarm bells should be ringing.

It is that confidence to express ourselves and do what we do best which I was willing us to see in my much derided post a week or two back praising Yates.

As I said then, my main concern is still the persisting with players out of position and weird formations to try and be clever and try something new, rather than putting out round pegs and players in their best roles and sticking to our principles.

Unfortunately that confidence and bravery has yet to be established, and I believe if we get through it Yates and the team will come out stronger, but if it doesn't return then Yates will be gone before the Summer 2014 transfer window opens.

[taxidave]

I wasn't there yesterday, but I was at Dagenham the week before when the consensus was Yates had done his homework and outsmarted the Daggers game plan. It wasn't pretty to watch but it worked. Was he a tactical genius last week? No. Was he clueless this week? No.

If you weren't there how can you be sure he wasn't clueless this week.
I believe the tactics employed last week were not due to Yates having done his homework but
came about because the new coach Dave Kevan had done the scouting and had come up with a plan to nullify the D&R threat.
So to answer your questions...was he a tactical genius last week, no but Dave Kevan was.
Was he clueless this week, most definitely yes.

[Laurence]

So to answer your questions...was he a tactical genius last week, no but Dave Kevan was. Was he clueless this week, most definitely yes.

Ok, but isn't Kevan is a member of Mark Yates management team? So are you suggesting that when things go right that's down to Kevan, when they don't that's down to Yates?

[taxidave]

So to answer your questions...was he a tactical genius last week, no but Dave Kevan was. Was he clueless this week, most definitely yes.

Ok, but isn't Kevan is a member of Mark Yates management team? So are you suggesting that when things go right that's down to Kevan, when they don't that's down to Yates?

You were suggesting that Yates was possibly a tactical genius for getting it right at Dagenham, I was just correcting you in that it was the coach who devised the cunning plan.
The only praise Yates can take from those tactics is that he sent Kevan to watch the Daggers, plus the fact that it took a stroke of genius from Cureton to give us the lead.
As for your comments about not being a rich club and being able to pay off managers we seem to have found the money (£75k I believe) to pay off Martin Allen also probably the same combined amount for Bennett and Jones so I am sure we would be able to fund another sacking. You also mention the fact that we should not be pushing for promotion given our low attendances but I am sure our gates have been higher than Rochdale's over the past few seasons and look where they are now.

[Laurence]

You were suggesting that Yates was possibly a tactical genius for getting it right at Dagenham, I was just correcting you in that it was the coach who devised the cunning plan.

No, I wasn't suggesting Yates is a tactical genius. You seemed to be implying that failure is Yates alone, success belongs to others - Kevan, Cureton. The point I was making is that Kevan is a member of Yates coaching staff, accountable to Yates. The team that goes on the pitch is picked and set-up by Yates with the input of his coaching staff. The buck stops with the manager. Credit to Kevan for his scouting work but Yates could have disregarded his suggestions. He, I assume, didn't. Leadership is as much about listening and surrounding yourself with good people as it is acting. The point I am making is it is not as simple as calling Yates "naive" and "clueless" (not your words TD, but words that have been used by others).

You also mention the fact that we should not be pushing for promotion given our low attendances but I am sure our gates have been higher than Rochdale's over the past few seasons and look where they are now.

As for average attendance, in the four seasons since ending back in League 2 (or Division 4 in old money), Cheltenham have always been in the bottom half of the table. I'm using data from the Football League's website http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/D ... 26,00.html. One strong relationship in football is that of wages to performance, there appears to be a strong relationship between paying more in wages and better results. At this level, as attendance is the main source of income for clubs, that suggests resources at CTFC aren't abundant. Of course, match day revenue would be a better indicator of resources but I don't have that data to hand so I'm using this as a proxy. So I am arguing Cheltenham under Yates have over achieved. Maybe what we are seeing now is a regression to the mean. If someone can point me to reliable data for this season on clubs' wages budget, I'd be interested to see where we come in League 2 according to this measure.

As for your comments about not being a rich club and being able to pay off managers we seem to have found the money (£75k I believe) to pay off Martin Allen also probably the same combined amount for Bennett and Jones so I am sure we would be able to fund another sacking.

Clubs can't keep afford to pay-off managers unless they're bankrolled by suspect oil-rich billionaires. You pay-off a manager and his coaching staff, pay a new manager and his coaching staff, the new manager wants money to spend to build his team in the January transfer window. Before you know it, you're in a hole on and off the pitch. If we're in the bottom two at new years, I'll be sending Paul Baker £50 (I'm no Abramovich) to pay-off Yates but I don' t think we will.

[RED ROB]

What I don't want to see Tuesday night is some organised protest against Yates and Co, we've all had our say rightly or wrongly.
If things don't go our way we've got to keep behind the lads.

[Robin]

What I don't want to see Tuesday night is some organised protest against Yates and Co, we've all had our say rightly or wrongly.
If things don't go our way we've got to keep behind the lads.

At the moment my I have one foot in both camps however another defeat will be the final straw for me I'm afraid.

[RED ROB]

These next two games could put a lot of pressure on Paul Baker.
I fear an 1800 gate tomorrow night.
Cant see many more than that turning up. Think Baker will be very loyal to Yatesie but he must be thinking the same way as us.
Remember his comments recently about effort, time to stop blaming players and take a good look at his tactics.
Went home a bit shocked after the game and a bit angry at the lack of action he took.
If we can sneak a win tomorrow and critical getting something Saturday you never know.
Two defeats and I'm stating the obvious.
Two big games.