No disrespect to JP, but ...

hEaLeR · 20 Oct 2013, 21:14

What's the fascination with Jones? Only here for one season, won't be remembered for more than 5 minutes.

Not a scratch on left backs of the past, JV, McCann, Garbutt et al.

If your looking for a one season wonder go back to Dave Norton. A true legend for what he did. 100% every game and would have run through brick walls for the team. Only thing Jones was running through was treacle as JMW ran past him.

Jebolani · 20 Oct 2013, 21:16

Jones wasn't even THAT good. Ok, he had a good delivery and was a nice bloke. Shame he couldn't defend for toffee.

I-Love-CTFC · 20 Oct 2013, 21:21

People want answers. Until the truth is revealed people will continue to listen to the rumours. Jones was not let go because of football reasons.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 20 Oct 2013, 21:23

Jon Palmer wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:The Echo won't turn on Yates. Why do you think they are doing their best not to reveal the truth about Benno and Jones. Last manager they made up and sensationalised stories to get him out, this manager they cover them up to protect him and keep the fans positive. So you'll have to put up with it confused.com I am afraid.
Probably the most pathetic and ill-informed post I have ever had the misfortune to read.

You said yourself it was the newsdesk and not yourself who put together the Allen slander - another sign the Echo is definitely a paper where the back pages are more useful than the front. Frequent and extensive coverage by you JP as has been said above but the grievance is when you don't comment on fans unrest or debate the pressure on Yates it does come across as propaganda rather than reporting. I think you are a brave journalist to debate this with fans and trying to justify dodgy team selection in the live chat so respect there. You must have some doubts - like about not making any substitutes, for example. Will that be a criticism tomorrow or ignored?

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 20 Oct 2013, 21:26

Joey wrote:You'd think the Echo was owned by Murdoch after reading some of the comments on this thread.

Far worse. It's a Daily Mail rag.

51/84 · 20 Oct 2013, 21:28

I-Love-CTFC wrote:People want answers. Until the truth is revealed people will continue to listen to the rumours. Jones was not let go because of football reasons.

so if you are so certain then please tell us who are in the dark as to why Jones went
feel free to PM me if its only a rumour

Jon Palmer · 20 Oct 2013, 21:41

Jones went because he was on double the money CBB is on now and Yates thought his legs had gone, simple as that.

I-Love-CTFC · 20 Oct 2013, 21:42

Sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish. That was clearly not the only reason.

Jon Palmer · 20 Oct 2013, 21:45

I'm afraid it was, sorry to disappoint. Some of the rumours I've read are astounding. There is a specific medical reason why Jones was allowed to leave and that's what I am not sure it's right to divulge the full details of, but it's all football-related.

I-Love-CTFC · 20 Oct 2013, 21:49

Jones seems to be doing well for himself at Newport and I'm glad. He's a top bloke who deserved to be treated much better than he was.

51/84 · 20 Oct 2013, 21:51

JP its a pity you did not flag that at the start of the debate but personal medical problems are off limits as we all know.
It is not your place to divulge them
Thank you for clarifying the situation - not that those who are looking for an excuse to hound Yates will accept it

Jon Palmer · 20 Oct 2013, 21:58

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Jon Palmer wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:The Echo won't turn on Yates. Why do you think they are doing their best not to reveal the truth about Benno and Jones. Last manager they made up and sensationalised stories to get him out, this manager they cover them up to protect him and keep the fans positive. So you'll have to put up with it confused.com I am afraid.
Probably the most pathetic and ill-informed post I have ever had the misfortune to read.
You said yourself it was the newsdesk and not yourself who put together the Allen slander - another sign the Echo is definitely a paper where the back pages are more useful than the front. Frequent and extensive coverage by you JP as has been said above but the grievance is when you don't comment on fans unrest or debate the pressure on Yates it does come across as propaganda rather than reporting. I think you are a brave journalist to debate this with fans and trying to justify dodgy team selection in the live chat so respect there. You must have some doubts - like about not making any substitutes, for example. Will that be a criticism tomorrow or ignored?

Find out tomorrow!

51/84 · 20 Oct 2013, 22:04

Circa 1887 · 20 Oct 2013, 22:06

...You'd think that some people were being forced to read The Echo. Don't like it...don't read it.

I truly appreciate the thorough coverage JP gives the team. He reports facts and provides interviews that we wouldn't otherwise get. I prefer to read known facts in the papers, without spin or emotion. If I wanted to read the moans and groans of supporters and conspiracy theorists, I'd read the forum...not buy a newspaper.

Two distinct platforms that provide two different types of information. They can compliment one another, but I don't see why one should reflect the other...especially since we forum users represent a minority of CTFC fans.

Andy · 20 Oct 2013, 22:10

Its looking like Jones will be the next "£30k and a friendly" and basically...always brought up to try to get across a point no matter how long ago it was...

arobinsfan · 20 Oct 2013, 22:42

Jon Palmer wrote:Jones went because he was on double the money CBB is on now and Yates thought his legs had gone, simple as that.

If the above statement is true, why did you not just state that at the time? why did you not question Yates about it? Why do you print players telling us they want "promotion" then the same players play c!#p next game. I'm fed up of just seeing the back page headlines never mind reading the articles.

Cheltenhamshire10 · 21 Oct 2013, 02:16

Jon Palmer wrote:I'm afraid it was, sorry to disappoint. Some of the rumours I've read are astounding. There is a specific medical reason why Jones was allowed to leave and that's what I am not sure it's right to divulge the full details of, but it's all football-related.

You've bitten here jp. Think we should have all moved on from jones.
As a journalist it's a fine line between reporting news and keeping trust of people who give you the information.

C.V · 21 Oct 2013, 05:17

Cheltenhamshire10 wrote:
Jon Palmer wrote:I'm afraid it was, sorry to disappoint. Some of the rumours I've read are astounding. There is a specific medical reason why Jones was allowed to leave and that's what I am not sure it's right to divulge the full details of, but it's all football-related.
You've bitten here jp. Think we should have all moved on from jones.
As a journalist it's a fine line between reporting news and keeping trust of people who give you the information.

Dont think he has bitten at all.If he had disclosed this at the time it wouldnt have dragged out as it has.Jon dangled the bait weeks ago saying he knew the reason but wouldnt disclose it.Obviously fans like to know the reason players seem to be frozen out for no apparent reason.If he has a medical problem thats where it ends l hope Jones can overcome this and that will be the end of it from me.

Jon Palmer · 21 Oct 2013, 05:25

The rumours have become so farcical something needed to be said!

Horteng · 21 Oct 2013, 05:52

Jebolani wrote:Jones wasn't even THAT good. Ok, he had a good delivery and was a nice bloke. Shame he couldn't defend for toffee.

I think you are missing the point......

Horteng · 21 Oct 2013, 05:54

Jon Palmer wrote:Jones went because he was on double the money CBB is on now and Yates thought his legs had gone, simple as that.

Gone where? Is that a problem a result of hitting the brick wall?

Joey · 21 Oct 2013, 06:29

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Jon Palmer wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:The Echo won't turn on Yates. Why do you think they are doing their best not to reveal the truth about Benno and Jones. Last manager they made up and sensationalised stories to get him out, this manager they cover them up to protect him and keep the fans positive. So you'll have to put up with it confused.com I am afraid.
Probably the most pathetic and ill-informed post I have ever had the misfortune to read.
You said yourself it was the newsdesk and not yourself who put together the Allen slander - another sign the Echo is definitely a paper where the back pages are more useful than the front. Frequent and extensive coverage by you JP as has been said above but the grievance is when you don't comment on fans unrest or debate the pressure on Yates it does come across as propaganda rather than reporting. I think you are a brave journalist to debate this with fans and trying to justify dodgy team selection in the live chat so respect there. You must have some doubts - like about not making any substitutes, for example. Will that be a criticism tomorrow or ignored?

Unless you consider what Allen did in the nightclub a sport, it was always going to be covered by the news desk.

As for the questioning of Yates of on the current pressure on him, do you not think Yates knows that? Do most of us not already know the answer to that question? JP did question Yates on whether he thought letting Alan Bennett go was still a good decision, at the time when it was of debate on here.

It's not a matter of reporting everything, it's a matter of reporting what is respectful and fair to those you are reporting on. It would be unfair to players like Braham-Barrett and Jones to be discussing their wages or Jones's medical situation on the back pages. The same applies to Yates and the club, posting untruths and rumours is bad journalism. There may be also things that are best kept in the dark for now because it wouldn't benefit anyone.

We can either have crappy journalism like Wikileaks or good journalism like Glenn Greenwald.

leohoenig · 21 Oct 2013, 10:46

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Jon Palmer wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:The Echo won't turn on Yates. Why do you think they are doing their best not to reveal the truth about Benno and Jones. Last manager they made up and sensationalised stories to get him out, this manager they cover them up to protect him and keep the fans positive. So you'll have to put up with it confused.com I am afraid.
Probably the most pathetic and ill-informed post I have ever had the misfortune to read.
You said yourself it was the newsdesk and not yourself who put together the Allen slander - another sign the Echo is definitely a paper where the back pages are more useful than the front. Frequent and extensive coverage by you JP as has been said above but the grievance is when you don't comment on fans unrest or debate the pressure on Yates it does come across as propaganda rather than reporting. I think you are a brave journalist to debate this with fans and trying to justify dodgy team selection in the live chat so respect there. You must have some doubts - like about not making any substitutes, for example. Will that be a criticism tomorrow or ignored?

To be pedandic, it is not slander - it is libel. And the defence the Echo would have used if Allen had taken them to court for Libel was that any allegations printed were true. Allen would ahve made a pretty penny if he could have beaten the Echo in court, but for some reason he did not try.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 21 Oct 2013, 11:14

Jon Palmer wrote:Jones went because he was on double the money CBB is on now and Yates thought his legs had gone, simple as that.

Hang on JP, hang on.

The reason the whole Jones debate flared up again was when in the live match chat a few weeks ago, when debating Sido having to play left-back, I asked if Jones leaving was for financial reasons and you responded to say it was not, before making the statement that you could reveal the real reason.

Now you say it is partly financial reasons.

EDIT: I have since seen the comments re: medical reasons, so fair enough.

Jon Palmer · 21 Oct 2013, 11:19

Do you agree with this assessment of Saturday's game?

http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/Ch ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Circa 1887 · 21 Oct 2013, 11:26

Good read, as always, JP. Thanks

21 Oct 2013, 11:27

Fair assessment of the game Jon but no mention at all of the booing from the fans?

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 21 Oct 2013, 11:30

Jon Palmer wrote:Do you agree with this assessment of Saturday's game?

http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/Ch ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wasn't there so I always rely on your reports to reflect the pattern of matches, and always trust them to be more objective and reliable than what I read on here.

This was no different, with description of mistakes and good play and who played well and who didn't always more believable than people on here.

Jon Palmer · 21 Oct 2013, 11:32

Clearly mentioned: "In contrast, Yates left all 11 players who started the match on for the duration, but in the end they were chasing shadows."

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 21 Oct 2013, 11:34

Jon Palmer wrote:Clearly mentioned: "In contrast, Yates left all 11 players who started the match on for the duration, but in the end they were chasing shadows."

That's me told. I must improve my reading. Apologies JP. Well written as always.

My post above duly edited.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 21 Oct 2013, 11:37

Robin wrote:Fair assessment of the game Jon but no mention at all of the booing from the fans?

This might cover it?

"It was a bitterly disappointing end to the match for Cheltenham and the home crowd were left wondering why there was no response from the bench when Rochdale began to dominate."

Read more: http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/ ... z2iM6ksO8g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

confused.com · 21 Oct 2013, 11:38

Jon Palmer wrote:I am always willing to take comments onboard about what you want to read/see more/less of in the Echo and online. All feedback welcome.

Fair play JP !

Would like it when the players come out with the usual drivel, that you produced the so so so many back pages from them over the weeks promising the same things and asking their views on that. Once again, I realise you have a tricky tightrope to walk and the back pages have to be filled. If the egg chasers were filling it, you would be getting even more complaining.
In saying all that, I am now of the opinion that they shouldn't be allowed to come out with their usual bland statements without a bit of reality biting them in the bum. Would far prefer to read your views and reviews on the club / game / players than read the endless load of BS that repeatedly comes from them. Once again ..... just my own personal view

taxidave · 21 Oct 2013, 11:39

Robin wrote:Fair assessment of the game Jon but no mention at all of the booing from the fans?

Without specifically mentioning it, I think this covers it fairly well....

The end result was perhaps the most agonising setback Cheltenham have suffered this season and another failure at home to Morecambe tomorrow night is certain to further stoke the ire of the Whaddon Road faithful, who have come to expect much better.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 21 Oct 2013, 11:46

Jon Palmer wrote:I am always willing to take comments onboard about what you want to read/see more/less of in the Echo and online. All feedback welcome.

The videos and interviews, with players and chairman are always good to see.

And the match-day live is a lot better than BBC live text even if it does get heated and lots of rumours, arguments and questions flying around.

The fans forum reporting is top notch - do you arrange those or is it the club?

confused.com · 21 Oct 2013, 11:46

Circa 1887 wrote:...You'd think that some people were being forced to read The Echo. Don't like it...don't read it.

I truly appreciate the thorough coverage JP gives the team. He reports facts and provides interviews that we wouldn't otherwise get. I prefer to read known facts in the papers, without spin or emotion. If I wanted to read the moans and groans of supporters and conspiracy theorists, I'd read the forum...not buy a newspaper.

Two distinct platforms that provide two different types of information. They can compliment one another, but I don't see why one should reflect the other...especially since we forum users represent a minority of CTFC fans.

Circa - you miss my point , I have no complaint over the match reporting , JP's views etc. I DO object to every day redaing from one player after another that leeson has been learnt and next match will prove it blah blah blah. Fill teh back page with JP work, not BS from players or at least tell them it is BS