Christmas crunch

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

nine points off relegation

nine points off second place

ten points off top spot

six points off seventh

All four of those can be comfortably achieved depending how the season goes. Or we could stay exactly where we are. I prefer to look up the league and aim to catch teams, others may be more concerned with looking down and staying ahead.

Lack of home wins is worrying. Exeter and Mansfield must be defeated if we are to stay in the hunt for top three. Remaining unbeaten until 2014 would be a good achievement even if the two home games are not won.

Just amazed how close a league it is this season - 16 teams at least still looking for play-offs at this stage.

[Malabus]

Too be honest the quicker this season finishes the better. It's been bloody awful.

[taxidave]

Too be honest the quicker this season finishes the better. It's been bloody awful.

In your own humble opinion of course Mal, because I am sure there are others on this forum who are very pleased with the way it is going.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Dave, you moan when people get labelled morons or IQ deficient but then come up with statements like that.

I don't imagine there is a single person who is very pleased with how it is going.

Read the following two words with great care: Middle ground.

I would not say it has been awful. As my OP says, we are not out of anything yet. Awful to me would be us being marooned in the bottom two or three, which a simple look at various sources for a league table can prove is not the case.

Equally, by no means am I am very pleased. We are having to play catch-up and the bottom teams can still get us. To be very pleased I'd want us to have ten or more points than we do and be bossing the top of the table.

It has been pretty average - a decent unbeaten run but lacking wins. Nine points clear of relegation and only ten points off being champions. Thirteenth position. It is the most middling or middling seasons I have ever seen - we could not get a more average mid-table position if we tried.

Something almost every team make do with every season except for the odd one or two when they are in a promotion/relegation battle.

To conclude, and to hopefully stop you and others going around pushing labels on to everyone and starting these arguments:

Am I pleased we are in mid-table? No.
Do I think it's awful we are in mid-table? No.
Am I looking forward to seeing if we can climb the table? Yes.
Am I concerned a lack of wins could see us slide? Yes.
Is that what a football season is about? Yes.

[Malabus]

I would not say it has been awful.

It's been awful and have no desire in re applying for a ST next May. I really lost interest lately and so has my fellow PRE friends; so I'm not the only one.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I would not say it has been awful.

It's been awful and have no desire in re applying for a ST next May. I really lost interest lately and so has my fellow PRE friends; so I'm not the only one.

was the 's' a typo?

[Daveangel]

I would not say it has been awful.

It's been awful and have no desire in re applying for a ST next May. I really lost interest lately and so has my fellow PRE friends; so I'm not the only one.

I'm puzzled. I'm sure you were a Wolves ST holder this season

[Circa 1887]

I have missed more games (home and away) this season than any other. One word: apathy.

I don't see us going down, nor do I see us challenging for a play-off spot. Quality football is sporadic, entertainment is extremely limited. Whilst my support for the team remains, sometimes I decide that it should be from afar rather than in person.

[asl]

Same with me, Circa. I've missed loads of home games because I've been busy doing other things which I would normally schedule around the football.

[C.V]

Same as l am a season ticket holder and never miss a home game my health hasnt been to good but l never let it get in the way before .I am not enjoying the way things are going so it was an easy decision to not bother last week.

[mattyboi]

I would not say it has been awful.

It's been awful and have no desire in re applying for a ST next May. I really lost interest lately and so has my fellow PRE friends; so I'm not the only one.

So should we scrape a playoff place on last day of season, then win at wembley, you still wouldnt get a ST?

[Robin]

I can only echo the above, I'm still going to all home games but have cut right back on away games because quite frankly the overall experience is rubbish now. It's poor quality, expensive and most of my friends are very selective over what games they attend. Note. One person who was a season ticket holder since the conference days went shopping with his wife Saturday!

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

One person who was a season ticket holder since the conference days went shopping with his wife Saturday!

That was me!

[RED ROB]

Am I pleased we are in mid-table? No.
Do I think it's awful we are in mid-table? No.
Am I looking forward to seeing if we can climb the table? Yes.
Am I concerned a lack of wins could see us slide? Yes.
Is that what a football season is about? Yes.

Very true but I'll continue to go as always through thick and thin.
Seen many worse times than this but I suppose I could always be a Bristol Rovers fan

[Powelly]

I've not been since Chesterfield away, September?

Friends of mine who were devoted supporters for years have slowly over the years stopped going, i feel maybe i'm heading in a similar direction. Dont get me wrong i check the news, listen to commentary when possible and still get annoyed when we dont win. However i haven't missed going to the matches. Maybe i'll catch the bug again one day.

[C.V]

I've not been since Chesterfield away, September?

Friends of mine who were devoted supporters for years have slowly over the years stopped going, i feel maybe i'm heading in a similar direction. Dont get me wrong i check the news, listen to commentary when possible and still get annoyed when we dont win. However i haven't missed going to the matches. Maybe i'll catch the bug again one day.

There we go then thats a post from one of our most loyal fans Powelly was the one responsible for getting the Wymans up and running and hes even considering throwing in the towel.Surley people at the club must realise we are losing loyal long term customers how far do they want to see this decline.

[Artemis]

C.V., what is the answer then? It surely can't be sack the manager and gates will increase in the long term, because if it that were simple, PB would do it. Replacing the manager doesn't guarantee anything, except a significant financial expense in paying him (and maybe his backroom staff )off, plus finding money for new signings in January for the new man to spend on new players.

[Nesty]

C.V., what is the answer then? It surely can't be sack the manager and gates will increase in the long term, because if it that were simple, PB would do it. Replacing the manager doesn't guarantee anything, except a significant financial expense in paying him (and maybe his backroom staff )off, plus finding money for new signings in January for the new man to spend on new players.

sounds like a Catch 22 - there is no guarantee that either scenario would work. However if the upturn in results continues there is a hope some will give it another go. I did on Saturday and although we only drew there were some positives in the first half

[vcinthestand]

so I dont know Powelly personally
Has his ( or his mates) life style changed more responsibility at work or at home or family
Is it maturity and other influences
Dont answer for him CV or Robin lets hear it from the man himself
What has changed?

[Robin]

I've not been since Chesterfield away, September?

Friends of mine who were devoted supporters for years have slowly over the years stopped going, i feel maybe i'm heading in a similar direction. Dont get me wrong i check the news, listen to commentary when possible and still get annoyed when we dont win. However i haven't missed going to the matches. Maybe i'll catch the bug again one day.

Exactly and I know so many people like this! Most of them were the ones who made going to football fun, got the atmosphere going, had a few drinks in the pub. None of that is there anymore and once people lose those they drift away. I cannot over stat the social aspect of going to football, it's this that makes poor football more acceptable and tolerable and when it's gone it's very easy to lose the urge to go every week.

[Robin]

C.V., what is the answer then? It surely can't be sack the manager and gates will increase in the long term, because if it that were simple, PB would do it. Replacing the manager doesn't guarantee anything, except a significant financial expense in paying him (and maybe his backroom staff )off, plus finding money for new signings in January for the new man to spend on new players.

Artemis - just my view here.

I feel the club has taken their eye off the ball with this one. They have focused massively on bringing in kids however when those kids get a bit older they are drifting off. The club need to understand what makes going to football enjoyable for the average fan (not just the young kids) and try to accomodate that.

Take the example of the The Wymans it was a great idea but how much sh1t and complaints did Powelly put up with? It's the same with the drummer and the lot in the C&G they were driven away by people complaining about their behaviour which from what I saw was typical of most fans up and down the county i.e. a few beers, loud chanting/singing and yes a little swearing but nothing more.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I only buy my season ticket for social reasons. Would make no sense to do so otherwise given how rarely I can make it down.

[FOD_Wyman_2010]

Got to echo the sentiments from Powelly. Hardly missed a game for the last ten years, bought all the kits, travelled away and really enjoyed the Wymans and generally going to matches. Slowly grown disillusioned with it over time (especially the atmosphere and poor view from the LMI which is the only place for noise) and been to very few games this season. I doubt that will change over the coming months. Maybe its just growing older and priorities changing but I do enjoy a good atmosphere and feel its lacking somewhat nowadays. As Powelly said, hopefully I will catch the bug again one day as it has been a huge part of my life over the past decade.

[Artemis]

C.V., what is the answer then? It surely can't be sack the manager and gates will increase in the long term, because if it that were simple, PB would do it. Replacing the manager doesn't guarantee anything, except a significant financial expense in paying him (and maybe his backroom staff )off, plus finding money for new signings in January for the new man to spend on new players.

Artemis - just my view here.

I feel the club has taken their eye off the ball with this one. They have focused massively on bringing in kids however when those kids get a bit older they are drifting off. The club need to understand what makes going to football enjoyable for the average fan (not just the young kids) and try to accomodate that.

Take the example of the The Wymans it was a great idea but how much sh1t and complaints did Powelly put up with? It's the same with the drummer and the lot in the C&G they were driven away by people complaining about their behaviour which from what I saw was typical of most fans up and down the county i.e. a few beers, loud chanting/singing and yes a little swearing but nothing more.

With all due respect, I'm not sure what your gripe is - is it that Mark Yates is still manager, or that we're mid-table, or we're not playing well / in an entertaining enough fashion, or is it that the club has decided that it wants to be more family friendly and accessible for the next generation (and consequently imposes bans on fans by setting off flares / smoke bombs, drinking to excess or using foul and abusive / homophobic / racist language - all of which I would point out are illegal outside of a football stadium, so beyond me why they should be acceptable in it). Only two of those issues are in the managers job description. And football fans who want to win and be entertained are numerous but I think very rarely satisfied on both counts. That we're mid-table is, I argue just about what we could expect based on gates and reported budgets (not hearsay, but from the chairman himself). Yes, we might be lower than where we would all like to be, but being a supporter is just - supporting the team through thick and thin, not giving up if you're not being entertained - I've never heard a football supporter sign "I'm Cheltenham till I die (unless of course, I don't like our league position or the manager or am not being suitably entertained) in which case I'll stop supporting the club - and yahboo sucks to you, I'm not coming anymore".
If your gripe is that Mr Yates is still manager, or you don't like the direction PB is taking the club in then I suggest you take that up with him, rather than continually berating Mr Yates attempts to get us where we all want to be.

And yes of course, there is a danger of younger / teenage fans drifting off as they become older and competing activities hone into view. But some will stick, and then bring their mates. Our clubs problem has been that until we won our league spot, Cheltonians' supported other clubs - Rovers, Swindon, as well as bigger clubs in the top division divisions. They supported other clubs because there wasn't a club to support in the town, at least one that they'd heard of. The only way we are going to reverse that is to accept that supporters choose their team at a young age, and make sure its Cheltenham for as many as possible - make it a place that parents want to bring their children too, and one that makes the youngster feel important, safe and welcome - particularly compared to other grounds they may experience.
One of the contributory reasons (not the only one, but a significant one, in my view) for our falling gates is that a sudden swell during our glory years of teens and twenty somethings has been drifting off as they got married, went shopping, had other commitments on Saturdays and Tuesday evenings. It certainly happened to me and most if not all of my friends at the time! But I am now taking my son, and a couple of his friends regularly - not every week, because we have other commitments - but football is now ingrained in my lad and his team is and always will be Cheltenham. A short but genuine anecdote for you - we live in Cirencester (traditionally Swindon territory, but I think by your reckoning, part of our catchment area), and one of his friends was offered the choice of Swindon or Cheltenham when they came to see that game a few seasons ago at Whaddon Road (we won 1-0) by his Swindon supporting father - he chose Cheltenham because he preferred the atmosphere and whole game experience when he arrived at the ground, compared to the County Ground or any other ground he'd been to. He is now also a supporter for life and proudly wears his replica Ruby top - his friends are now coming along. That's how we expand our catchment area and fan base, and in my view, PB has got it largely right (he could extend discount on tickets to 12 - 15 year olds to reduce the temptation to drift away, but that's another tale and partly my annoyance since my lad is 12!).
Rant over!

[Robin]

I find the first paragraph to be a very odd response in that I don't see what Mark Yates has to do with anything. The discussion here is why so many are drifting away from CTFC - surely something that few people can deny? People like Powelly, CS85 and many others have been the lifeblood of the club over the last decade and they are falling out of love with attending CTFC matches.

[London Exile]

I think cost of tickets plays a huge part, £16 is our cheapest price and for that you get to stand where the views aren't great from either the paddock, tunnel enclosure or LMI terraces. Added to that, if you want to queue for a bite to eat or drink or nip to the toilet, you have to brave the winter elements. Yes the I2P facilities are much better but you pay more for this.
The cost of L2 in general is appallingly high but it's the main source of revenue for the club so it's a catch 22, and i can't see prices coming down. Perhaps we could offer some matches at a reduced rate but then it's possibly too little too late anyway as those supporters that have drifted off have got other interests or commitments such as playing football.
The main stand isn't going to get done for sometime but I think a bit of investment into the LMI may help, if we can make the match day experience/atmosphere better in that part of the ground. It's a mess behind that stand so I'd like to see that cleared up and install a portakabin which can house a bar & tv, something akin to what is on offer in the I2P.
If we can breathe a bit more life into the terraces then maybe that might just entice back some of the wymans crew?

[51/84]

I tend to agree with artemis

Some of these things are cyclic.
Boys become youths,young adults and other things come along.
Priorities change
But one day they will have children and they will come back with a different perspective

Life blood keeps going and dont pack it in without due reason.
So you are right Robin none of the things you list are the reason but put them all together and perhaps they are

As to the self fulfilling prophecy
Pre play off final over heard conversation in Tescos
Are you going?
No too expensive. I will go into town and watch it in the pub
Im not going they will get beat and if they do get promoted they will come straight back down

So you see they were right and as they walked out wearing their manure tops I was glad I was a ruby robin

If you say something often enough you end up believing it
So we get people on here with their own agendas saying this is rubbish, the ground is poor - Im not paying a £1 more but expect the club to improve every year
Supporters support

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Supporters do support but there is a lot of competition for business so the club do need to make sure they constantly review the offer to keep non die-hards keen.

[Powelly]

Many contributing factors made my decision for me.

Robin is right in that the social side of it was very important to me. I’ve been coming since I was 12 so about 16 years and during the last 5 of those I’ve had my best years watching ctfc. With the introduction of the Wymans I made some great friends and loved getting to the pub for 12, few beers then football. But the group I went with chopped and changed a lot, and like Artemis said people get married and priorities change, although the biggest factor for them was definitely the cost. The group slowly got pulled apart and it took something away from the match day experience for me. On a personal note it’s not the fact that I’m married or have a mortgage. If I really wanted to go I would go but that spark just isn’t there at the moment. It use to be watching Cheltenham and looking forward to the next game which would pull me through the week, like I say maybe that’ll come back.

I did have to put up with a lot of stick during the Wymans but I guess that was always going to happen, people don’t like change. It was a shame as it sometimes made me question why I’d bothered and occasionally took that enjoyment away. But the atmosphere was another big part of the match day experience for me and I wanted to encourage others. We can probably all agree that it’s not great now and maybe it never was. But the atmosphere will have an affect on some attending.

I guess another contributing factor is that I also wanted to play a bit of football myself before the legs got any slower and older. I’ve driven to the Hartlepools away on a Friday night and just about everywhere else as well, and although I say money isn’t the issue you sometimes have question it. After travelling 8 hours in a car and splashing out maybe £70 you do question it, is it worth it? The answer was always yes until recently.

I cant quite put my finger on it, but if I’m honest although I’ll always be Cheltenham but I’m not missing watching Cheltenham……which is something I never thought I’d say.

[Malabus]

This club is fecked* *(source) my great intelligence

[Robin]

I'm so glad you said all of that Powelly, although I don't know you personally I know a lot of people like you who have similar feelings. I myself have been coming since the eighties yet I am finding it a chore now. Gone of the days of meeting my friends in the pub (very few still go), now it's a case of rock up close to kick-off, park the car walk to the ground hope to know a few people there, sit bored during half time and go home - this is not fun or enjoyable for me.

I do feel that if there was a bar in the In2Print and a good atmosphere during the match, it would be a lot more fun and although the cost is high I would be willing to pay it just like you.


I await the response about not being a true fan,that we are spoilt and the usual rubbish but I am simply trying to highlight a problem which some seem blissfully unaware of. By the way I am still attending almost all home games but I have cut right back on away games now and only doing a couple (West Ham/Chesterfield and hopefully Pompey).

[Taz1985]

There is a bar in the In2Print Robin.

[Artemis]

Reading some of this is interesting stuff. I had to stop going whilst my children were younger and weekend priorities change, as have many other for a variety of reasons. But I guess whether we attend or not, we are all still Cheltenham "supporters", in the sense that we want the team to win, feel good when they do and not so if they don't and acknowledge our allegiance and support for Cheltenham if asked which team we "support" (many of use of course probably support lower league football in general and advocate its positives to anyone who will listen ). Trouble is, the club doesn't run on "support", it runs on money, the vast proportion of which comes from gate receipts in our case. So whilst no doubt the club has many thousands of supporters - possibly tens of thousands - only a small proportion attend any one game. The difficulty the board have is extracting cash - via routes other than gate money - from their supporters, as well as persuading as many as possible to come along as often as possible. Not a task I envy PB, but some good things being done, particularly in schools and with younger supporters, but I do think there has to be an "offer" as the marketing men would call it for other demographics.

[Robin]

Very well put Artemis! Let's hope PB reads this and something can be done about it.

[Robin]

There is a bar in the In2Print Robin.

I don't sit in the In2Print Taz largely because nobody I go with likes it in there due to the amount of moaning and funny looks you get from fellow "fans" for showing some passion.