canningsman wrote:i would take him how can u say hes done his time and can come back in society but not here please we accept people who have done other bad things ie hughes he got into his car knowing he was well over the limet and in my eyes murdered a pearson but we have said its ok to come back and play football and make a liveing would we say the same to any other job ?
I think any individual has the right to employ or not employ anyone based on the history. Laws are there to deter and punish those who transgress but they are not there to guide individuals moral compass.
I think it is fair that Ched Evans (or Hughes or whoever) is free to re-enter society to continue their life (as a footballer, plumber etc) but equally it is fair that they meet resistance because of their previous actions. I wouldn't want Evans playing for us, others are okay with it. He's legally entitled to play for anyone - as a free man - but any club is free to not employ him because he is a convicted rapist.
Robin wrote:Errr....Julian Alsop, David Pipe or Chris Zebroski anyone? I am not defending the crimes of any of the above but for me football comes first and if we sign a player with some dodgy history and he does the business I'm sure the vast majority of fans would get behind him.
Alf wrote:Im not defending what he did in any way but the lad made the wrong decision and has been punished and done his time. If he is not to be allowed to gain employment it is we, the taxpayers, that finish up footing the bill.
No problem with him finding employment - my objection is that football is meant to a be a leading light in the community and a 'family sport' etc. That is why when rape convictions are so pitifully low and victim blaming so awfully high that for a football team to not even criticise the crime and to say they offer a "duty of care" to all players and welcome him back is something that does not sit well with me. Needless to say he still protests his innocence and shows no remorse which is worse still.
His victim after all had to be given a new identity after the crime as her name was leaked and Evan's friends and Shef U morons abused and threatened her.
Some professions just aren't suited - no law firm will employ someone with a drugs conviction, schools obviously don't employ convicted child molesters, etc.
So yes find employment and I wish him well in that, but to be welcomed back and have people singing his name and spending good money to pay his wages, and kids looking up to him thinking you can have such a privileged role in society, rape someone, deny it, see the victim abused and come back where you left off? No thanks.
Robin wrote:Errr....Julian Alsop, David Pipe or Chris Zebroski anyone? I am not defending the crimes of any of the above but for me football comes first and if we sign a player with some dodgy history and he does the business I'm sure the vast majority of fans would get behind him.
What was Zebroski's crime?
Bottling a team mate whilst at Plymouth during a night out.
Football is so fickle, Look at Marlon King. That guy has a far longer rap sheet than Ched Evans for crimes on par with Cheds (Given that Clayton Donaldson was cleared of the same charge as well and they were in the same room doing exactly the same thing!!!)
Clayton McDonald.
But you raise a great point. According to the BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17781842) McDonald "pulled" the girl, took her back to the hotel and then text Evans. How is it that she was too drunk to consent to sex with Evans but not McDonald? I believe that's why people aren't satisfied with the conviction.
To the point about whether I'd have him at Cheltenham, then probably yes. According to the law he's paid his debt to society and has a right to earn a living in whatever trade he can get. If we didn't sign him then some other club would. Then, I've always been a supporter of Hughes and McCormick (in particular) playing again.
Maybe she did consent to McDonald and as things progressed and they got more drunk he text Evans to say there was a drunk girl in his bed, and he arrived and committed rape.
Just because someone consents to sex with one person doesn't mean anyone else can have a go without asking, as hard as it is for some to understand.
Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, we can never truly know what happened, I was merely pointing out why some Evans' supporters might not agree with the conviction.
Si Robin wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately, we can never truly know what happened, I was merely pointing out why some Evans' supporters might not agree with the conviction.
Indeed - I will never know and nor will anyone else who wasn't privy to the evidence and testimonies in the court. The jury seemed convinced enough and they had plenty more to go on than any of his supporters.
Robin wrote:Errr....Julian Alsop, David Pipe or Chris Zebroski anyone? I am not defending the crimes of any of the above but for me football comes first and if we sign a player with some dodgy history and he does the business I'm sure the vast majority of fans would get behind him.
What was Zebroski's crime?
Bottling a team mate whilst at Plymouth during a night out.
The main difference for me comes having read his interview etc when he joined Newport.
He acknowledges his problems in the past and is making genuine efforts to go through treatment for his addiction, and I support anyone who is entering and trying to maintain such a recovery as it's incredibly hard.
It seems Zebroski admits his crimes - which he will have to (as well as making amends etc) if going through a twelve-step programme successfully.
Evans on the other hand denies it and his return to football appears not to be a personal battle against illness but a sense of vindication amongst his supporters. Evans shows no remorse and he hasn't criticised his friends who abused and threatened his victim who then had to have their life changed with a new identity from the police.
It's this lack of remorse and almost arrogant denial and the horrible criminal actions of his supporters that makes me think Evans and his gang are vile and why I would not give them the light of day at CTFC.
I am all for rehabilitation and second chances, but I cannot consider rehabilitation of someone who shows no remorse and is complicit in further abuse of his victim following conviction. If he says sorry, admit it was wrong and make visible steps to prove he isn't scum and then it will be easier to accept him being a role model for young people in the Sheff United community. Failure to that to me makes it look like that Sheff United and Ched Evans don't really think rape is a serious issues. Even a donation to a rape support charity would be a small step to at least acknowledging what's happened.