This is disappointing

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51/84
Posts: 3576
Joined: 24 Nov 2009, 10:20
There is a picture in this article of 26 youngsters
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/Ch ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not one has a CTFC shirt
Is this because the shirt is not available in town or is it the parents/grandparents to blame

We really need to start making inroads into this sort of age group
Robin
Posts: 15948
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
That's what get's me people will make excuses about this being a rugby area but football shirts outnumber the egg chasing massively go in a pub when footy is on and it tends to be packed, go in when rugby is on and it's rarely full. The biggest challenge in my eyes is that we are still unfashionable, we need to become something to be proud of, something cool and a key element of the community. Look at Burnley and Middlesbrough smaller towns yet hugely better crowds.
Artemis
Posts: 2351
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 20:36
Ever been to Middlesbrough, Robin? Its considerably bigger than Cheltenham....or are you including the populations of Cirencester, Stroud and Gloucester - each of which have their own football clubs.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29759
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
It takes time.

The parents of these kids probably still support a 'big team' as well as following CTFC (if they do) like everyone did when I was a kid and we were southern league.

Plus football is all about marketing and money making. Kids go in a shop and want a Real Madrid shirt because the TV, media and etc. hype up Real and their players.

For all we know half those kids support CTFC, but if they are trying to emulate their heroes or look cool in front of peers they will go for fashionable teams and the same shirts as everyone else.

It has taken generations of Burnley being a professional club with an established history to get the support they do, and I bet there more kids on a football course like that would be wearing Champs League glamour team shirts than Burnley.

Also, the two examples you choose are places where the towns grew up with nearly everyone working in a small number of close-knit industries, where they'd all pile out to the match together and football was a way of life.

Cheltenham just does not have that social history.
Si Robin
Posts: 5351
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:29
Robin wrote:That's what get's me people will make excuses about this being a rugby area but football shirts outnumber the egg chasing massively go in a pub when footy is on and it tends to be packed, go in when rugby is on and it's rarely full. The biggest challenge in my eyes is that we are still unfashionable, we need to become something to be proud of, something cool and a key element of the community. Look at Burnley and Middlesbrough smaller towns yet hugely better crowds.
You're talking about clubs that have years and years of history in the Football League, Burnley having won the League as recently as 1960. Support for these clubs goes from generation to generation. I'm sure I heard a few years back that Middlesbrough have the most fans per capita. You simply can't compare them to Cheltenham.

It is a different time, where the supporters of the likes of Burnley and Middlesbrough (although Boro's attendances have more than halved since relegation from the Premiership) will continue to drum into their kids the need to support their local club, we will still be a town/county that has more armchair supporters than real supporters. There is nothing anyone can do to really combat that. People want success and they want it now. It's why we suddenly sell-out when we have a playoff semi-final. Short of the unrealistic prospect of challenging at the top every single year, I'm not sure what more the club can do.

I will continue to bring my lad and buying him CTFC merchandise, but I can't stop him from wanting a Manchester City shirt because all of his other friends have United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Barcelona/Real Madrid kits despite having never been to a game in their lives.
51/84
Posts: 3576
Joined: 24 Nov 2009, 10:20
and how easy is it to buy CTFC merchandise or kit.
I am not knocking the club but surely that is an area that needs developing as well
Andy
51/84 wrote:and how easy is it to buy CTFC merchandise or kit.
I am not knocking the club but surely that is an area that needs developing as well
As easy as most things nowadays. Go to http://www.ctfc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and click on link to club shop, order, pay and get it delivered to your door.
51/84
Posts: 3576
Joined: 24 Nov 2009, 10:20
I agree Andy providing there is viability but its all about having a presence in town surely
That impulse buy
The kids walking past and saying I want
Granma thinking I will get the kids a CTFC shirt because I dont now which team to get them

Hopefully we will have pop up shops this Christmas season

If you can buy tickets in town then a few hundred leaflets handed out would make a difference
Did we attend freshers fayre, have we done a student deal

We hear these comments every year but nothing seems to happen
Have the speed shooting thing set up with a prize for the winner in different classes not just kids
over 60s under 40 and everyone who takes part gets a voucher for discounted tickets for 2 matches

We need to be creative and cause a buzz
Whens the next forum or panel
There must be an AGM soon
leohoenig
Posts: 2157
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:50
Contact:
51/84 wrote: There must be an AGM soon
Early November, trust AGM - date to be confirmed
DWx3
Posts: 108
Joined: 29 Nov 2009, 10:39
I don't think it's too much of an issue. The key thing is that these youngsters are becoming actively involved in the sport. It's important that the club encourages them to come to games and then as they mature hopefully they will develop a closer affinity to their local club. It's only natural for kids to gravitate towards the big teams and their star players. I used to watch Cheltenham regularly in the 90s when I was growing up but my bedroom was covered in Leeds Utd posters. When I was about 15 I realised it was more important to fully support my local team and be proud of my roots (this was just before Leeds boom period of Champions League semi-final etc).
Alf
Posts: 2166
Joined: 17 Apr 2011, 08:24
A lot of good points made on this topic. I personally feel the club could do more when it comes to advertising, especially home fixtures. I know it costs but if advertising didn't work then businesses wouldn't bother doing it. How many of us get 'flyers' through the door for Pizzas, Curry, Double Glazing, Painting & Decorating? Ok, we may not all use the services but a percentage of people will and presumably this makes it worthwhile. Only last week we had fans posting that they were not aware of a home game. Info on forthcoming fixtures should be there for all to see, people shouldn't have to buy the Echo or ferret about online for this. If kids have the telly on at home they will be bombarded with ads for upcoming games for Utd, City etc; that's what small clubs like ours are up against.
Last edited by Alf on 23 Sep 2014, 08:23, edited 1 time in total.
Robin
Posts: 15948
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
Artemis wrote:Ever been to Middlesbrough, Robin? Its considerably bigger than Cheltenham....or are you including the populations of Cirencester, Stroud and Gloucester - each of which have their own football clubs.

Never been Art but thought I saw something that the population was around 100k and they and Burnley have the best support per head in the entire football league, of course I stand to be corrected if wrong. Our population is rougly 120,000 in the town but 270,000 locally though.

To come back on some of the other points particurlarly the it take time solution, my counter argument would be has our fan base grown over the last 14 years, does it appear to be growing? My perception is the opposite (granted the recession plays a part) and that we are good at getting kids interested young but they are drifting away as they reach late teens and finding other things to do.

In my view we need to improve the rapport between the club and the Glos public (starting to happen), instill pride and belief but also ensure we cater for all generations and demographics not just youngsters/families.
confused.com
Posts: 2666
Joined: 04 Oct 2012, 07:16
Robin wrote:That's what get's me people will make excuses about this being a rugby area but football shirts outnumber the egg chasing massively go in a pub when footy is on and it tends to be packed, go in when rugby is on and it's rarely full. The biggest challenge in my eyes is that we are still unfashionable, we need to become something to be proud of, something cool and a key element of the community. Look at Burnley and Middlesbrough smaller towns yet hugely better crowds.
1) The pubs are full of supporters of other football teams
2) Maybe they are at the rugby instead of watching it in the pub. Not sure how many matches are shown live in town on a Saturday / Sunday afternoon. But Guessing would come second to showing the football
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29759
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Robin wrote:
Artemis wrote:Ever been to Middlesbrough, Robin? Its considerably bigger than Cheltenham....or are you including the populations of Cirencester, Stroud and Gloucester - each of which have their own football clubs.

Never been Art but thought I saw something that the population was around 100k and they and Burnley have the best support per head in the entire football league, of course I stand to be corrected if wrong. Our population is rougly 120,000 in the town but 270,000 locally though.

To come back on some of the other points particurlarly the it take time solution, my counter argument would be has our fan base grown over the last 14 years, does it appear to be growing? My perception is the opposite (granted the recession plays a part) and that we are good at getting kids interested young but they are drifting away as they reach late teens and finding other things to do.

In my view we need to improve the rapport between the club and the Glos public (starting to happen), instill pride and belief but also ensure we cater for all generations and demographics not just youngsters/families.
Middlesbrough itself is around 140,000, but if you include the whole urban area along both sides of the Tees which join on to Middlesbrough (Stockton, Billingham, Thornaby etc) then the population is 375,000.

Places like Redcar, Darlington, Hartlepool and Bishop Auckland all gravitate to Middlesbrough as well.

In football terms, as far down as Whitby, Northallerton and Thirsk in North Yorkshire Middlesbrough will be the dominating force.

Looking south (so not up towards Tyne and Wear teams), the next nearest league team is York 50 miles away, and it's 100 miles south-west to Morecambe, so they have a large catchment area where people have grown up seeing Middlesbrough in the Prem, Cup Finals and Europe in recent years, and Middlesbrough being an established team for generations.

Almost verging on incomparable.
Robin
Posts: 15948
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
So Middlesbrough itself has a similar sort of population to Cheltenham then and hte overall area is comparable, thanks RCS.
everyman
Posts: 2034
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 09:11
51/84 wrote:There is a picture in this article of 26 youngsters
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/Ch ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not one has a CTFC shirt
Is this because the shirt is not available in town or is it the parents/grandparents to blame

We really need to start making inroads into this sort of age group
Sadly wearing a clubs shirt seems to be a status thing and most of the adults wearing them in Chelt.don`t ever go to a football match,so it`s no surprise that their children are reluctant to put on a Chelt. shirt.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29759
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Robin wrote:So Middlesbrough itself has a similar sort of population to Cheltenham then and hte overall area is comparable, thanks RCS.
Robin, mate. I am sorry but socio-economics and urban geography is not something you will ever know as much as me about.

Yes 115,00 for Cheltenham is similar to 140,000 for Middlesbrough**

The wider urban area around Cheltenham (i.e. Cleeve and Gloucester) boosts it to 250,000. A bit more if you add in Tewkesbury.

The immediate urban area around Middlesbrough boosts it to 370,000 which is somewhat bigger.

Note I also mentioned Darlington (15 miles away) Redcar (8 miles), Hartlepool and Bishop Auckland (25 miles). Add these in and the wider area over 600,000.

Remember there are no rivals - somewhere 40 miles from Cheltenham in all directions and there are bigger clubs to support. Go 40 miles from Middlesbrough and there is no one.

This is not withstanding the culture and history. Even if Teesside and it's surrounds were not twice the size of Cheltenham-Gloucester and it's surrounds and was identical in population Middlesbrough would still get vastly more fans as they have spent most of the last 114 years in the top two divisions and have been in cup finals and played in the premier league. They spent £1,000 on a player in 1903!

Look at the stadium (old and new), think back 60 years when the whole of Teesside would leave the docks and the mines and go and watch them play in the stadium where Eusebio scored a hat-trick in 1966.

The history of the town's population and the whole raison d'etre of the place is a different world from Cheltenham. The Germans bombed it first of any British town in WW2 such was the significance of the industrial output in Middlesbrough.

It's one of those things. Look on a map. Read a couple of articles/books.

No matter what CTFC do, you are not going to turn Cheltenham into Middlesbrough. People who are rich enough move to Cheltenham for the wonderful environment and good schools, or buy second flats in Cheltenham for festivals and a weekend break in one of the worlds finest towns. Many people grow up in Cheltenham enjoying all it has to offer, and like me move away once a job is required. I know of more people from my year in school living in one area of Herne Hill in London than I do living in Cheltenham. Just look out of how small a fanbase we have, how many on here post from far flung corners of the country and the world.

Football is not part of the fabric of the town of Cheltenham, it is not a way of life that the whole town has revolved around and it never will be if you ask me. People won't go to games because it's what you and most people do on a weekend in the town, they will go to games if they are already football fans. And if you are a football fan you are more likely to take it or leave it and only turn out sporadically or for the big games as we see with CTFC.

You have never seen whole families, streets and neighbourhoods clocking in to the same factories or docks together and going to football and the club together in Cheltenham like you did in Middlesbrough in past decades.

No matter how many school kids you give tickets to or how many flyers you hand out, CTFC will always be a bit part to most of Cheltenham and will never be woven into the community of the town like it is in the industrial areas you have suggested as examples.

It's not a bad thing, it's not anyone's fault, it just is what it is. A product of circumstance which will be nigh on impossible to radically change any time soon.
Si Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:29
But RCS, Middlesbrough wear red, and we wear red and white ;)
asl
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Good analysis, RCS. Faultless.
Fuller
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Joined: 27 Jun 2012, 09:23
Excellent post RCS.

I spoke to someone connected with the club the other day, and asked him how the club was going to get the missing 1,000 supporters back. Can't remember his reply exactly but the first mission was to get at least 500 of them back. Not sure how the club can do that, only success and entertainment on the field will achieve that in the short term. And I don't call 2 goals in the last 4 home league games great entertainment.
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taxidave
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Location: Crewe station buffet, wish I'd stayed there!
asl wrote:Good analysis, RCS. Faultless.
Yes, very impressive.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
I would also agree it's a good post by RCS the only slight element I disagree with is that CTFC can never be fully integrated into the community, you simply have to believe and strive for this if long term growth potential is to be realised.
Artemis
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 20:36
RCS, an excellent analysis, and almost faultless....but "one of the world's finest towns" is surely intentional hyperbole?! It's nice, but come on.....
asl
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you are not going to turn Cheltenham into Middlesbrough
Thank fook for that. Oh...you meant the football clubs...
Judge_Dreddful
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Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 17:23
asl wrote:Good analysis, RCS. Faultless.
Social history, geography and a bit of statistics 101 thrown in for good measure! Impressive post, possibly the most well informed one I've ever read on here.
CheltRobin
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Joined: 10 Sep 2013, 15:36
51/84 - I blame the parents - more education needed.
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MrsWardenHill
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Smashing read RCS correct in every detail.
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