Away fans at Whaddon Road

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 22 Oct 2014, 21:35

Agreed that a new main stand is priority. The off pitch revenue need dictates that.

London Exile · 22 Oct 2014, 21:47

It'll be interesting to see what comments the board make at the Trust forum regarding the main stand

vickeryc · 23 Oct 2014, 06:26

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Agreed that a new main stand is priority. The off pitch revenue need dictates that.

Slightly off topic, but that's absolutely correct.

It's not just a matter of replacing an outdated (albeit quite appealing) grandstand that belongs in a different era. Until the club takes the plunge and comes up with an imaginative, off-pitch, income-generating scheme, it's hard to see how it can be successful - or, dare I say, survive - in the long-term. I firmly believe that redevelopment of the main stand, in conjunction with the land at Cakebridge Place, holds the key to the club's long-term sustainability.

I completely understand those who argue that we should invest in the team rather than bricks and mortar. No one wants to see the club sign good players and win matches more than I do. However, this only addresses the short-term. To ignore the revenue-earning potential of redevelopment is like burying your head in the sand, especially at a club that is unlikely to attract large crowds. Thoughtful redevelopment of the ground could also enable the club to increase its income by maximising the number of away fans at WR. [Finally back on topic!]

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 23 Oct 2014, 06:33

Two local examples where such short-termism proved the road to ruin: Hereford and Bristol Rovers. Awful grounds with poor facilities which have had no investment. Taxidave I believe is one who refused to go to Edgar Street due to it being so poor, again back up your point that good quality sizeable away facilities can benefit.

51/84 · 23 Oct 2014, 06:38

cakebridge is crucial but I suspect it is not going to happen
A question for the forum

Ben · 23 Oct 2014, 07:31

With regards to the issue of fans not causing trouble: there was a report a couple of years back (someone will remember more details) saying that the police and stewarding at football actually caused more trouble than just letting people be. So maybe Cheltenham could set a trend and get rid of home/away supporter areas altogether? Not going as far as we used to, swapping ends at half time, but letting people sit/stand where they want.

Might improve the atmosphere a bit. Who knows, its an idea. Would be very good publicity, especially with regards to the egg chasers and their superiority culture

51/84 · 23 Oct 2014, 07:58

I understand that Fulham and other grounds do have a neutral section but I just dont believe the people who attend football can be trusted to behave responsibly. It may only be a small minority but just look at the debate on here about certain behaviours and responses between our own fans. On the whole most on here are at worse keyboard warriors but give someone 1 unit of alcohol and they metamorphose into idiots.
I used to stand on mixed terraces in some extremely large crowds as a youngster perhaps I was naive, but when a fight broke out there would be a hole to let them get on with it. Just the same if someone threw up there was always space around the person.
What was much more dangerous was someone throwing a bottle full of what looked like lager but I suspect had been recycled. The undiscriminating throw or even aimed throw of a drunk often had consequences for an innocent bystander.
Ah those were the days !!!!!!

vickeryc · 23 Oct 2014, 16:58

Ben wrote:With regards to the issue of fans not causing trouble: there was a report a couple of years back (someone will remember more details) saying that the police and stewarding at football actually caused more trouble than just letting people be. So maybe Cheltenham could set a trend and get rid of home/away supporter areas altogether? Not going as far as we used to, swapping ends at half time, but letting people sit/stand where they want.

Might improve the atmosphere a bit. Who knows, its an idea. Would be very good publicity, especially with regards to the egg chasers and their superiority culture

Nice idea, but sadly we live in an age where I suspect it wouldn't be deemed acceptable.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 23 Oct 2014, 17:18

51/84 wrote:I understand that Fulham and other grounds do have a neutral section but I just dont believe the people who attend football can be trusted to behave responsibly. It may only be a small minority but just look at the debate on here about certain behaviours and responses between our own fans. On the whole most on here are at worse keyboard warriors but give someone 1 unit of alcohol and they metamorphose into idiots.
I used to stand on mixed terraces in some extremely large crowds as a youngster perhaps I was naive, but when a fight broke out there would be a hole to let them get on with it. Just the same if someone threw up there was always space around the person.
What was much more dangerous was someone throwing a bottle full of what looked like lager but I suspect had been recycled. The undiscriminating throw or even aimed throw of a drunk often had consequences for an innocent bystander.
Ah those were the days !!!!!!

Fulham the only ground to have the neutral zone.

In the Prem it was a tourist zone, so if members like me wanted to get four tickets for a Man U game I could take three mates and they would be able to support Man U in there. And the area where touts sold seats mainly as well I think.

These days it's still a neutral zone but is a lot emptier, so a good place to go if you want to be able to move around or pick and choose seats if you are with mates etc.

It's a unique thing which Fulham have. Just like being able to lean over the wall with your pint and see Putney skulls and rowers out just below you, or the wooden bench seats which still form half of the seats in fully preserved and protected Archie Leitch designed stand.

Different gravy all round and I doubt a neutral zone would wok anywhere else.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 23 Oct 2014, 17:26

Ben wrote:With regards to the issue of fans not causing trouble: there was a report a couple of years back (someone will remember more details) saying that the police and stewarding at football actually caused more trouble than just letting people be. So maybe Cheltenham could set a trend and get rid of home/away supporter areas altogether? Not going as far as we used to, swapping ends at half time, but letting people sit/stand where they want.

Might improve the atmosphere a bit. Who knows, its an idea. Would be very good publicity, especially with regards to the egg chasers and their superiority culture

Interesting thing which I am sure someone more knowledgeable (Leo...) can answer. At what level of football does segregation start?

I assume in the Conference it is law as Gateshead do, but I don't know if in the North/South feeders it is segregated, as I have never been to a Gloucester game?

In the Northern League it is not - at Whitley Bay fans can mix as they please, even though they often get up towards 400 attendances which is more than some of the Conference and North/South teams get.

I also remember going to Woking for the LDV Vans game which was called off due to fog. In the second half my mate and me moved round to the terrace behind the goal where the Woking fans were. Some kids in tracksuits gave a few yells but when we ignored and carried on sipping our tea they soon tired, and even when we ran down the terrace to celebrate Gillespie's free-kick there was no aggro whatsoever. So maybe Conference doesn't have a rule after all? Or was it just different for the LDV game?

Ben · 23 Oct 2014, 18:37

51/84 - an argument may be that tanked up fans who know they will be kept apart by police, stewards and segregation shout abuse at each other. Put them in close proximity and they probably get on a bit better!

Yes, its probably against some rule or other. It may lead to one fight a season which is one more than we currently get so maybe not a goer. But if any club in the country could pilot it it would be us as we have a friendly fan base and most opposition fans come to have a good day out in Cheltenham rather than crack any heads. CTFC need a USP and this could be it (Lord Sugar)

Si Robin · 23 Oct 2014, 18:40

I'm quite sure, although I'm prepared to be corrected by those with more knowledge (Leo and Shevates), but I think segregation comes down to the security certificate. For example, if we were to be relegated, segregation would still be in force due to the current grading we have.

With that being said, I'm not sure how it works with Gloucester as their fans tend to walk between the Hazlewoods and the Main Stand with no issue.

23 Oct 2014, 19:25

Call me strange but I actually prefer segregation it works much better in terms of atmosphere as it congregates teh away fans together.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 23 Oct 2014, 21:10

Robin wrote:Call me strange but I actually prefer segregation it works much better in terms of atmosphere as it congregates teh away fans together.

I do agree there. Whilst I said at Whitley Bay there is no segregation, the 40 or so away fans that turn up all huddle together away from anyone else, usually allowed to take a spot behind the goal.

At the Europa league final I came by a ballot ticket so was not in the Fulham end (but fairly close). It was a mix of Fulham and Athletic fans in the area I was. The only downside was not being in the masses behind the net. It was great scenes to watch and hear and people at work told me it looked epic on the TV, but I wasn't in that and it would have been better if I was.

Being with the Athletico fans was no problem otherwise, and they probably felt the same. The only slight annoyance was one sat behind me spent the whole match eating what I think were some sort of seed which needed their shell taken off, which he discarded by his feet. After 120 mins there must have been hundreds of the things under my seat.

Maybe it was just because it was a final, but it was actually nice to mingle with the away fans and exchange scarves and things, plus being from Madrid they were a lot more better looking than the average British fan, though it was a shame not to be in the thick of the atmosphere and action.

bigdavejambo · 29 Oct 2014, 18:18

Robin wrote:
vickeryc wrote:Ok, we've had virtually no problems to speak of from away fans at WR. Have any away fans particularly impressed or been unexpectedly gracious? I recall a couple of years' ago that some expected problems from Gillingham; yet, I found them to be amongst the best natured to visit us. Maybe it was because they were promoted that day (I think) but they were very friendly before the game started and created a great atmosphere during the match.
York, Northampton always strike me as two friendly clubs, they tend to have non-traditional fan bases kind of like where we are now, i.e. older fans and families. Then you have the former non-league clubs like Burton, Accrington, Morecambe etc. but to be honest I would rather go to Milwall/Cardiff and experience the atmosphere there than 'enjoy' standing in silence at those places.

As for unfriendly H*r*ford is normally hostile towards any CTFC fan, Bristol Rovers when they come here but less so at theirs, Oxford to a lesser extent can be intimidating too.

How much have you had to drink? Two of the worst sets of fans around that get away with letting flares off and fighting at every opportunity. Certainly 2 sets to stay clear of!!

vickeryc · 29 Oct 2014, 21:25

bigdavejambo wrote:
Robin wrote:
vickeryc wrote:Ok, we've had virtually no problems to speak of from away fans at WR. Have any away fans particularly impressed or been unexpectedly gracious? I recall a couple of years' ago that some expected problems from Gillingham; yet, I found them to be amongst the best natured to visit us. Maybe it was because they were promoted that day (I think) but they were very friendly before the game started and created a great atmosphere during the match.
York, Northampton always strike me as two friendly clubs, they tend to have non-traditional fan bases kind of like where we are now, i.e. older fans and families. Then you have the former non-league clubs like Burton, Accrington, Morecambe etc. but to be honest I would rather go to Milwall/Cardiff and experience the atmosphere there than 'enjoy' standing in silence at those places.

As for unfriendly H*r*ford is normally hostile towards any CTFC fan, Bristol Rovers when they come here but less so at theirs, Oxford to a lesser extent can be intimidating too.
How much have you had to drink? Two of the worst sets of fans around that get away with letting flares off and fighting at every opportunity. Certainly 2 sets to stay clear of!!

Are you being serious? I always thought York and Cobblers fans were alright.

30 Oct 2014, 09:31

I've been to York twice, Northampton five or six times, never ever felt threatened, both clubs have a lot of OAPS and families from my experience Big Dave.

vickeryc · 01 Nov 2014, 19:48

No trouble from York's fans again today!

01 Nov 2014, 23:22

Robin wrote:I've been to York twice, Northampton five or six times, never ever felt threatened, both clubs have a lot of OAPS and families from my experience Big Dave.

big Dave has an agenda iirc according to a poster called Prestbury Park. Apparently he "supports" numerous teams.

TheHorseRacer · 02 Nov 2014, 10:29

Ralph wrote:
Robin wrote:I've been to York twice, Northampton five or six times, never ever felt threatened, both clubs have a lot of OAPS and families from my experience Big Dave.
big Dave has an agenda iirc according to a poster called Prestbury Park. Apparently he "supports" numerous teams.

Prestbury park is right.....you can now add Leeds United to his many teams as he bought a gold membership for them at the start of the season.Last season he finished off being Fleetwood Towns number one fan.
Funny though how he hasn't been to watch Cheltenham this season he only seems to cone to life when they are playing York.

bigdavejambo · 02 Nov 2014, 10:57

TheHorseRacer wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Robin wrote:I've been to York twice, Northampton five or six times, never ever felt threatened, both clubs have a lot of OAPS and families from my experience Big Dave.
big Dave has an agenda iirc according to a poster called Prestbury Park. Apparently he "supports" numerous teams.
Prestbury park is right.....you can now add Leeds United to his many teams as he bought a gold membership for them at the start of the season.Last season he finished off being Fleetwood Towns number one fan.
Funny though how he hasn't been to watch Cheltenham this season he only seems to cone to life when they are playing York.

hahahaha i almost spilt my coffee in laughter at a post from somebody who stopped going to watch York City because he had to PAY to watch them and didnt get free tickets anymore - fantastic loyalty that is!!!!!

robinsrule · 02 Nov 2014, 12:09

I watched a bit of Bournemouth yesterday. Of course, they are owned by a billionaire, but they have a small tidy ground and struggle to attract 10,000 home fans for Championship football. A bit like a slightly larger version of us. Traditional football teams like Rotherham seem to find older fans creeping out of the woodwork as they rise up the leagues, though this wouldn't have happened without the new stadium.

It's funny how some relatively small cities (Norwich, Brighton) can attract 25,000+ each home game. Relative isolation helps but we only have two Prem teams (Villa and West Brom) within 70 miles. The way Brighton's attendances jumped dramatically from the Withdean shows that there was a massive potential which couldn't be fulfilled with an old small stadium. I am not for one minute likening their support to ours though!

On the subject of away fans, I also remember the Wycombe fans being extremely loud for the whole 90 mins for the play off semi. The most vocal I remember Cheltenham fans being was probably Southend away when we took about 1300 and just missed out on the play offs in our first league season.

I too would prefer to switch ends and have a decent view from behind the goal at WR.

02 Nov 2014, 16:22

Russina billionaire at Bournemouth isn't it? The fact is someone with a bit of money could come in here, build a 4000 main stand and it could be us with gates around 10,000 in the Championship with some positive marketing and investment.

CS85 · 02 Nov 2014, 17:23

With swindon coming up next week and PB wanting to maximise the money from away fans.should we have given swindon the in2print stand? They could possibly bring that many as some have suggested they won't be put off by the ticket prices as it's cheaper than there own.
Also been a lot of talk about Ctfc fans wanting to go behind the goal? Could have used this game to try it?.

little mo · 02 Nov 2014, 17:46

Robin wrote:Russina billionaire at Bournemouth isn't it? The fact is someone with a bit of money could come in here, build a 4000 main stand and it could be us with gates around 10,000 in the Championship with some positive marketing and investment.

Problem with that Robin, is that at least half the teams in the FL are wishing for the same. Its most unlikely to happen. We are probably always going to be League 2 or League 1 at very best. For myself, I really am happy to be a FL team.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 02 Nov 2014, 17:58

CS85 wrote:With swindon coming up next week and PB wanting to maximise the money from away fans.should we have given swindon the in2print stand? They could possibly bring that many as some have suggested they won't be put off by the ticket prices as it's cheaper than there own.
Also been a lot of talk about Ctfc fans wanting to go behind the goal? Could have used this game to try it?.

I disagree. People pay good money for season tickets for the best seats in the In2P, in the knowledge they get first option on those seats for cup games. To then say they have to move to a different part of the ground is not on.

Si Robin · 02 Nov 2014, 18:08

Explain tat to Healer then, he's been told he's lost his seat due to segregation.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 02 Nov 2014, 18:27

Si Robin wrote:Explain tat to Healer then, he's been told he's lost his seat due to segregation.

Well I do not think that is on and I would complain if I was him.

(Note, I did say the best seats - i.e. block 4, and parts of 3 or 5. I assume segregation is happening in the blocks closer to the away end, but still, harsh on Healer)

Si Robin · 02 Nov 2014, 19:21

I have no idea in fairness, but I believe he's had the same seat for a while and has never been asked to move before. I suspect he will be bringing it up at the Trust AGM.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 02 Nov 2014, 19:35

Si Robin wrote:I have no idea in fairness, but I believe he's had the same seat for a while and has never been asked to move before. I suspect he will be bringing it up at the Trust AGM.

All I can say is that I hope Swindon sell-out the allocation!

CS85 · 02 Nov 2014, 19:37

point Taken. Although for me I would not find it an issue but it seems some do!.

hEaLeR · 02 Nov 2014, 20:32

I don't consider my seat towards the away end. Fairly central in block 5 of the in2print. I won't be the only one being told to move. Never got asked to move before, PB quite happy to take our fans money when Everton were in town, we only need to give Swindon just over 1000 tickets (based on 15% - 7000 capacity)

I saw the queues yesterday and I'm glad I didn't queue for 40 minutes to be told my seat couldn't be booked.

Yes I am fairly miffed, why should I as long standing season ticket holder be moved for away fans? Don't remember seeing that mentioned when I signed my season ticket form at the start of the season. PB happy to moan at floating fans but then annoys the regulars all the same with seat moves and price hikes.

Principle of it, it's not right so should be brought to attention (not only in my case)

(I'll still be going)

London Exile · 02 Nov 2014, 20:38

Fair play to you Healer for still going, I imagine there might be one or two who don't as away of protest and I don't blame them.
After all the summer noise from the club about wanting to get back onside with the fans etc, to do this demonstrates the club just don't learn from mistakes.
The away stand holds 1100 so surely that plus the end block of the Wymans Stand would suffice?
With the premium price money we are paying to cover policing costs, there needn't be a need to have many seats covered over by way of segregation

51/84 · 02 Nov 2014, 20:50

The plan is to make it look like an away match as we seem to play better away

03 Nov 2014, 11:22

little mo wrote:
Robin wrote:Russina billionaire at Bournemouth isn't it? The fact is someone with a bit of money could come in here, build a 4000 main stand and it could be us with gates around 10,000 in the Championship with some positive marketing and investment.
Problem with that Robin, is that at least half the teams in the FL are wishing for the same. Its most unlikely to happen. We are probably always going to be League 2 or League 1 at very best. For myself, I really am happy to be a FL team.

Agree Mo but as Colchester, Scunthorpe and Yeovil have proven in recent years there are exceptions where clubs of our size make it into the second tier.