Dover game, Golden egg or turkey shoot

Talk about anything to do with Cheltenham Town, CTFC 500 Club, League 1, ex players & Managers

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Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
What about Paul Tisdale down at Exeter, conducts himself extremely well, plays brilliant football, brings through young players and done a hell of a job down there in dire financial circumstances. He may well fancy a challenge at a more stable club with the backing he would get here he would be ideal and certainly no failure.

Either way I hope the board are contingency planning and looking at managers both in and out of work.
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Reliant Robin
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 21:10
Robin wrote:What about Paul Tisdale down at Exeter, conducts himself extremely well, plays brilliant football, brings through young players and done a hell of a job down there in dire financial circumstances. He may well fancy a challenge at a more stable club with the backing he would get here he would be ideal and certainly no failure.

Either way I hope the board are contingency planning and looking at managers both in and out of work.
Yes, that's a fantastic idea - pay up the remainder of Yates' contract, pay Exeter compensation for their manager, then invest the rest of our Club's golden resources on bringing in new players.

Erm ... hang on a minute, we aren't Chelsea or Manchester City :o
Robin
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Silly comparison Reliant. Tisdale probably fills all the criteria we want from a manager, I ask you who would be a better choice?
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Reliant Robin
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Robin wrote:Silly comparison Reliant. Tisdale probably fills all the criteria we want from a manager, I ask you who would be a better choice?
On the contrary Robin, I think you are the one who is being silly. I don't disagree that Tisdale would be a superb manager for us. You totally missed the point that to dispose of one manager and obtain another who are both under contract, AND to provide a new manager with recruitment funds is most probably beyond us.
Robin
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I'd see it as investment actually, both are in the last year of their deals. Let's say Tisdale costs us a small five figure sum, I'd say that would be money very well spent in the grand scheme of things.
solihullkev
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Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 19:53
More importantly, upon what basis would Tisdale want to join us ? Ok, their financial position is currently poor but they have some cracking youngsters playing first team football who are both good enough and ready - one of those sold and they will be ok. We couldn't raise a tenner at the moment from our home grown youth.
Robin
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It's a valid question Kev, Exeter are a similar club to use in terms of size and stature however I'd suggest he'd have a bigger budget here and better facilities to build a legacy.
vickeryc
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Joined: 30 May 2012, 07:18
Location: Cirencester
The posts from Reliant and Kev echo my earlier points about realism and expectation.

I agree, though, that it's hard to think of a manager potentially better suited to us than Paul Tisdale, who has worked miracles on a small budget at Exeter. However, (a) is isn't available yet, (b) even if he was, he might not want to join us, (c) if he were prepared to leave Exeter and join us now, where would the money come from to pay off MY and PT's contracts? (d) if (c) were to happen, it's hard to imagine much money being available to strengthen the squad, and (e) even if PT did replace MY, there's still no guarantee of success - there never is in football I'm afraid.
London Exile
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Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 15:48
Paul Trollope is out of work since leaving Norwich where he was Houghtons assistant.
I'm led to believe he'd like to get a managers job again and I know he's been to a couple of our games this year scouting.
Robin
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vickeryc wrote:The posts from Reliant and Kev echo my earlier points about realism and expectation.

I agree, though, that it's hard to think of a manager potentially better suited to us than Paul Tisdale, who has worked miracles on a small budget at Exeter. However, (a) is isn't available yet, (b) even if he was, he might not want to join us, (c) if he were prepared to leave Exeter and join us now, where would the money come from to pay off MY and PT's contracts? (d) if (c) were to happen, it's hard to imagine much money being available to strengthen the squad, and (e) even if PT did replace MY, there's still no guarantee of success - there never is in football I'm afraid.
Both are in their last years of contract surely the sums being talked about can't be too much? At the very least I would be disappointed if we did not approach Exeter to understand his availability and interest in coming here.
vickeryc
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Robin wrote:
vickeryc wrote:The posts from Reliant and Kev echo my earlier points about realism and expectation.

I agree, though, that it's hard to think of a manager potentially better suited to us than Paul Tisdale, who has worked miracles on a small budget at Exeter. However, (a) is isn't available yet, (b) even if he was, he might not want to join us, (c) if he were prepared to leave Exeter and join us now, where would the money come from to pay off MY and PT's contracts? (d) if (c) were to happen, it's hard to imagine much money being available to strengthen the squad, and (e) even if PT did replace MY, there's still no guarantee of success - there never is in football I'm afraid.
Both are in their last years of contract surely the sums being talked about can't be too much? At the very least I would be disappointed if we did not approach Exeter to understand his availability and interest in coming here.
I guess the sums may not be much. However, I understand minimal money is available and therein lies the problem.
Oldun
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Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 20:12
Can anyone tell me why Dec 7 is such a pivotal day for MY. He has proved his inability over many years so what difference is 2 more weeks going to make? Even with two wins he isn't suddenly going to become an astute capable manager. One defeat v Oxford will leave the club deeper in the mire in the leeague, two defeats will be a disaster. Even a caretaker manager would have the time to lift morale and instill some good practice into the squad. MY isn't going to do that in a month of Sunday let alone in two weeks. He needs to go tomorrow.
CS85
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Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 10:04
Lose to Oxford then the weak after the Dover game will be a must win game,it's the same over and over.
To many Ctfc fans scared to make any kind of real protest towards the manager.untill the fans really get on his back nothing will change.
vickeryc
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Oldun wrote:Can anyone tell me why Dec 7 is such a pivotal day for MY. He has proved his inability over many years so what difference is 2 more weeks going to make? Even with two wins he isn't suddenly going to become an astute capable manager. One defeat v Oxford will leave the club deeper in the mire in the leeague, two defeats will be a disaster. Even a caretaker manager would have the time to lift morale and instill some good practice into the squad. MY isn't going to do that in a month of Sunday let alone in two weeks. He needs to go tomorrow.
No disrespect, Oldun, but there's a smattering of immature hysteria in your latest post. We all know the team has not performed well in recent weeks (apart from thrashing Swindon) and MY has to take his share of the blame. However, you're making the common mistake of coming up with an opportunistic knee-jerk reaction, not a practical solution based on financial reality.
vickeryc
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Without meaning to sound like a founder member of the Mark Yates fan club, it's a bit unfair of Oldun to say MY has "proved his inability over many years" when he saved the club from near-certain relegation, then steered it to two play-offs. A quite ridiculous statement in my view, irrespective of recent disappointments.
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CTFC_Forever
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solihullkev wrote:More importantly, upon what basis would Tisdale want to join us ? Ok, their financial position is currently poor but they have some cracking youngsters playing first team football who are both good enough and ready - one of those sold and they will be ok. We couldn't raise a tenner at the moment from our home grown youth.
Absolute rubbish. Forget about Solihull, would rather send you to Coventry.

Did we not sell (and raise significantly more than a tenner) the Duffus brothers?

And I am sure that Williams, Dale , Kotwica, Bowen and Powell really appreciate your views.




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Oldun
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Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 20:12
We keep hearing about MY's successes. I haven't seen a promotion since he's been here. Of course in first play off year we did threaten the top 3 and then the chance was blown and the next year we made the play offs and failed again. Can't think where else to put the blame than at the manager's door. Subsequently its gone from bad to worse, and Vickery's "recent" disappointments must mean the last couple of seasons. No hysteria here I'm afraid. Just pure simple realism based on the failings of the Manager over several years.
London Exile
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Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 15:48
I can't see anything happening this week now regarding Yates. Surely if the board had decided to act they'd have done so after yesterday's game.
vickeryc
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Joined: 30 May 2012, 07:18
Location: Cirencester
No, it still sounds like hysteria to me, Oldun.

I accept things have gone stale over the last couple of seasons and, in an ideal world, maybe a change of manager could've made things better. Unfortunately, we don't inhabit an ideal world of limitless wealth, so it's necessary to inject some realism. That's all I'm saying. Where is all this money coming from to pay off the remainder of MY's contract and finance a new (unknown at present) manager and new signings?

Also, you're reluctant to acknowledge anything MY has achieved in previous seasons, when we arguably over-achieved. Blaming him for failing to achieve automatic promotion is preposterous. You need to be more balanced if your arguments are to appear anything more than knee-jerk.
THECHOIRBOY
Posts: 900
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:15
Jerry Gill with Ward as assistant.

Wouldn't mind that
C.V
Keep hearing we cant afford to sack him.How much will it cost us if he continues with this relagation form falling gates and the real threat of losing our league status
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
vickeryc wrote:Without meaning to sound like a founder member of the Mark Yates fan club, it's a bit unfair of Oldun to say MY has "proved his inability over many years" when he saved the club from near-certain relegation, then steered it to two play-offs. A quite ridiculous statement in my view, irrespective of recent disappointments.
Near certain relegation? :shock: We were probably in better shape then that we are now or at least comparable. Remember Yates very nearly took us down in his second season after a fairly positive start. Granted his third season was a huge success where by we were very unlucky not to go up automatically. His fourth season has to go down as a disappointment given where we were and how much he had to spend. Last season was a total disaster and this season is heading that way too. Overall take out the third year and it's not particularly positive.
vickeryc
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You're missing the point on several levels.

No one is suggesting things are good. Equally, no one can guarantee that changing the manager will suddenly make things better (or even less bad than they are now). So I don't buy the argument that continuing with MY will inevitably result in relegation - any more than what many thought was a foregone conclusion (if he remained) last season. We don't have billionaires bankrolling the club and, whether we like it or not, it is necessary to be realistic in our expectations. This seems so obvious that I don't know why I have to keep repeating it.
Seefacts
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Would Paul Trollope be a good choice should Yates not turn it round?

A quick read of some BRFC forums says many attribute his success to Lennie Lawrence overseeing things, but his record was pretty strong.

He's coached at a high level with Chris Hughton and is available.
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Sprout Picker
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:20
Robin wrote:
vickeryc wrote:Without meaning to sound like a founder member of the Mark Yates fan club, it's a bit unfair of Oldun to say MY has "proved his inability over many years" when he saved the club from near-certain relegation, then steered it to two play-offs. A quite ridiculous statement in my view, irrespective of recent disappointments.
Near certain relegation? :shock: We were probably in better shape then that we are now or at least comparable. Remember Yates very nearly took us down in his second season after a fairly positive start. Granted his third season was a huge success where by we were very unlucky not to go up automatically. His fourth season has to go down as a disappointment given where we were and how much he had to spend. Last season was a total disaster and this season is heading that way too. Overall take out the third year and it's not particularly positive.
Trust me Robin, I saw every game Allen 'managed' that season, we were absolute cast-iron certainties for relegation with him at the helm. An utter shambles throughout the side, even worse than the Ghoul at his worst - he at least had some decent players in the side. MY did a decent job in steering us to safety with that lot he inherited.

At present we don't look great. Matt Taylor out has hit us hard and, as was mentioned elsewhere, one player missing shouldn't have that much influence but it seems in our case it has.

Dover could well be the make-or-break game for MY and our season as a whole.
Robin
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Fair enough Sprout but we were higher in the league than we are now and there appears little optimism for improvement around the fan base.
confused.com
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Joined: 04 Oct 2012, 07:16
vickeryc wrote:You're missing the point on several levels.

No one is suggesting things are good. Equally, no one can guarantee that changing the manager will suddenly make things better (or even less bad than they are now). So I don't buy the argument that continuing with MY will inevitably result in relegation - any more than what many thought was a foregone conclusion (if he remained) last season. We don't have billionaires bankrolling the club and, whether we like it or not, it is necessary to be realistic in our expectations. This seems so obvious that I don't know why I have to keep repeating it.
The mistake you are making, is not parking logic at the door as you logon
vickeryc
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confused.com wrote:
vickeryc wrote:You're missing the point on several levels.

No one is suggesting things are good. Equally, no one can guarantee that changing the manager will suddenly make things better (or even less bad than they are now). So I don't buy the argument that continuing with MY will inevitably result in relegation - any more than what many thought was a foregone conclusion (if he remained) last season. We don't have billionaires bankrolling the club and, whether we like it or not, it is necessary to be realistic in our expectations. This seems so obvious that I don't know why I have to keep repeating it.
The mistake you are making, is not parking logic at the door as you logon
Sorry, Confused, you've confused me! I don't understand your point.
confused.com
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vickeryc wrote:
confused.com wrote:
vickeryc wrote:You're missing the point on several levels.

No one is suggesting things are good. Equally, no one can guarantee that changing the manager will suddenly make things better (or even less bad than they are now). So I don't buy the argument that continuing with MY will inevitably result in relegation - any more than what many thought was a foregone conclusion (if he remained) last season. We don't have billionaires bankrolling the club and, whether we like it or not, it is necessary to be realistic in our expectations. This seems so obvious that I don't know why I have to keep repeating it.
The mistake you are making, is not parking logic at the door as you logon
Sorry, Confused, you've confused me! I don't understand your point.
My apologises. Meant that the only reason you have to keep repeating yourself, is that you expect logical thinking to be the norm on the forum. Sadly, applying logic does not always work. No matter how sane the comment and how often you repeat it
solihullkev
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CTFC_Forever wrote:
solihullkev wrote:More importantly, upon what basis would Tisdale want to join us ? Ok, their financial position is currently poor but they have some cracking youngsters playing first team football who are both good enough and ready - one of those sold and they will be ok. We couldn't raise a tenner at the moment from our home grown youth.
Absolute rubbish. Forget about Solihull, would rather send you to Coventry.

Did we not sell (and raise significantly more than a tenner) the Duffus brothers?

And I am sure that Williams, Dale , Kotwica, Bowen and Powell really appreciate your views.


CTFC Forever - if you considered my statement I refer to the moment, so your reference to the Duffus brothers is both irrelevant and plain daft. Whether the current players you list appreciate my views is equally irrelevant. Fact is none of them would raise any money ; contrast that with Exeter's youngsters. Take off the rose tinters and reconcile then facts.

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CTFC_Forever
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solihullkev wrote:CTFC Forever - if you considered my statement I refer to the moment, so your reference to the Duffus brothers is both irrelevant and plain daft. Whether the current players you list appreciate my views is equally irrelevant. Fact is none of them would raise any money ; contrast that with Exeter's youngsters. Take off the rose tinters and reconcile then facts.
1) You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. Your view of our youngsters being worthless is just pure negativity and one which I do not agree with. If you love Exeter so much and the way they do things then perhaps you should change the team you support.

2) I may have rose tinted glass on but if we do not develop our own talent then we are not a sustainable club. If the youngsters are worthless and would not raise a penny then what do you suggest we do with them? Perhaps you would just be done with the academy and close it all down?

3) I do admit that the way that Exeter integrates its young talent into the squad should be applauded. If we did the same here at CTFC then I would hope that these players values and profiles would increase and then we may be in a better position if some do actually get sold on.

4) I left Hanks out of the reckoning with my last post, I suppose that you share the same view that he is worthless too? Just another homegrown worthless talent in your eyes?

So perhaps look at it as my glass is half full rather than being half empty.
confused.com
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CTFC_Forever wrote:
solihullkev wrote:CTFC Forever - if you considered my statement I refer to the moment, so your reference to the Duffus brothers is both irrelevant and plain daft. Whether the current players you list appreciate my views is equally irrelevant. Fact is none of them would raise any money ; contrast that with Exeter's youngsters. Take off the rose tinters and reconcile then facts.
1) You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. Your view of our youngsters being worthless is just pure negativity and one which I do not agree with. If you love Exeter so much and the way they do things then perhaps you should change the team you support.

2) I may have rose tinted glass on but if we do not develop our own talent then we are not a sustainable club. If the youngsters are worthless and would not raise a penny then what do you suggest we do with them? Perhaps you would just be done with the academy and close it all down?

3) I do admit that the way that Exeter integrates its young talent into the squad should be applauded. If we did the same here at CTFC then I would hope that these players values and profiles would increase and then we may be in a better position if some do actually get sold on.

4) I left Hanks out of the reckoning with my last post, I suppose that you share the same view that he is worthless too? Just another homegrown worthless talent in your eyes?

So perhaps look at it as my glass is half full rather than being half empty.
In fairness, you do have to ask yourself, why is nobody knocking down the door to pry any of them away from us .....
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CTFC_Forever
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confused.com wrote:
CTFC_Forever wrote:
solihullkev wrote:CTFC Forever - if you considered my statement I refer to the moment, so your reference to the Duffus brothers is both irrelevant and plain daft. Whether the current players you list appreciate my views is equally irrelevant. Fact is none of them would raise any money ; contrast that with Exeter's youngsters. Take off the rose tinters and reconcile then facts.
1) You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. Your view of our youngsters being worthless is just pure negativity and one which I do not agree with. If you love Exeter so much and the way they do things then perhaps you should change the team you support.

2) I may have rose tinted glass on but if we do not develop our own talent then we are not a sustainable club. If the youngsters are worthless and would not raise a penny then what do you suggest we do with them? Perhaps you would just be done with the academy and close it all down?

3) I do admit that the way that Exeter integrates its young talent into the squad should be applauded. If we did the same here at CTFC then I would hope that these players values and profiles would increase and then we may be in a better position if some do actually get sold on.

4) I left Hanks out of the reckoning with my last post, I suppose that you share the same view that he is worthless too? Just another homegrown worthless talent in your eyes?

So perhaps look at it as my glass is half full rather than being half empty.
In fairness, you do have to ask yourself, why is nobody knocking down the door to pry any of them away from us .....
Think it may be the fact that Exeter play their talent regularly, putting them on the shop window whereas CTFC do not play them enough, but discard them at the beginning of the season, eliminating 20% of their playing squad without a competitive ball being kicked.

The likes of Dale and Williams would thrive in that environment but no club will want to part with money as it is too risky.

If these lads get offered a contract renewal, regardless of what the terms are then any club interested would have to pay compensation to CTFC, a scenario which will not happen due to lack of track record.




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