Barrow ratings

Talk about anything to do with Cheltenham Town, CTFC 500 Club, League 1, ex players & Managers

Moderators: Admin, Ralph, asl, Robin

Robin
Posts: 16025
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
Well an awful first half where we contrived to make Andy Haworth looks reasonable topped with one of the most comedy own goals. Second half GJ shows why we have a top manager, changes the formation and there is only ever one winner.

Phillips - not much to do but hugely culpable for the comedy own goal when he completely missed the ball for their goal. I loved his celebrations at the end though (6)
Barthram - pretty anonymous first half, constant threat in the second half (7)
Downes - again not a great deal to do but looked a bit pedestrian first half, his own goal was one of the worst I've seen (6)
Parslow - Pick of the defence again for me (7)
McLennon - Another poorish game, one of the weaker links in the current team, too timid and lacking composure (6)
Storer - Quiet game by his standards but drove the team well second half (7)
Munns - see Storer, clearly frustrated in the first half (7)
Pell - rightly subbed, far from his best today and looks lost on the right wing (5)
Waters - same as Pell (5)
Wright - chased hard but didn't get a lot of joy (6)
AMS - Anonymous first half, did well in the second (6)

Subs:
Hall - absolutely must start next half, we are so much more solid when he is in the centre of midfield (7)
Dickie - again should start, mobile and solid at the back (7)
Cooke - his best game, caused them problems but missed a glorious chance (7)
CTFCfan99
Posts: 1344
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 00:13
Phillips' distribution was very poor but as you say he didn't have a lot else to do. I'd have given McLennan a 3 or 4, thought he was very poor and gave the ball away far too often and was caught out of position. Parslow definitely the best of the defenders.
CTFCfan99
Posts: 1344
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 00:13
Also thought Haworth was their best player by a distance, was never given a chance when he was here.
User avatar
Shade
Posts: 17002
Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 13:02
Location: Cheltenhamshire
Yes, I know you don't like him Robin, but Haworth played very well for them. His touch and dribbling was what we were missing for the first 60 minutes.

Waters and Pell rightly subbed, just didn't get into the game. Great debut for Dickie. Played the ballwell and getting on the end of that corner, he's not going to forget that in a hurry.

Thoughts Phillips' celebration were a bit OTT and antagonistic, tbh. As GJ said on the radio afterwards, we shouldn't be jumping up and down after a game like that. If he was getting stick a coupleof fist pumps would have done the job, he didn't have to keep going all the way to the halfway line.
London Exile
Posts: 3197
Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 15:48
It certainly made a difference being able to bring on Dickie, Hall and Cooke today when Barrow were tiring.
Barrow were a team I said could be dark horses but I was unimpressed by them today, very direct and playing for time early in the second half.
First half we were in a scrap and I thought we should have gone in 0-0 at HT and that would've been a fair reflection of a scrappy first half.
Once we tried to knock it about and used the width better in the second half it was one way traffic and we thoroughly deserved the 3 points.
From where I was in the PRE I thought the crowd were noisy and terrific (not sure about the HT jeers though)
User avatar
Shade
Posts: 17002
Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 13:02
Location: Cheltenhamshire
The few boos at half time were a joke. Yes, it wasn't good football from us but the effort wasn't lacking. A few ignorant, narrowminded fools that think this season is a continuation of last season
CTFCfan99
Posts: 1344
Joined: 03 Feb 2015, 00:13
Shade wrote:The few boos at half time were a joke. Yes, it wasn't good football from us but the effort wasn't lacking. A few ignorant, narrowminded fools that think this season is a continuation of last season
Really quite disappointing that a small number of our fans can't seem to wait to get on the players' backs. There are a few near where I sit in the T&B who are particularly embarrassing.
Robin
Posts: 16025
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
People were frustrated but I thought our fans showed they were football league today LMI and In2Print making plenty of noise .
User avatar
Reliant Robin
Posts: 1366
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 21:10
London Exile wrote:It certainly made a difference being able to bring on Dickie, Hall and Cooke today when Barrow were tiring.
Barrow were a team I said could be dark horses but I was unimpressed by them today, very direct and playing for time early in the second half.
First half we were in a scrap and I thought we should have gone in 0-0 at HT and that would've been a fair reflection of a scrappy first half.
Once we tried to knock it about and used the width better in the second half it was one way traffic and we thoroughly deserved the 3 points.
From where I was in the PRE I thought the crowd were noisy and terrific (not sure about the HT jeers though)
Totally agree with this assessment, and I was also very disappointed to hear the boo-boys back again for another season. If they can't hack the occasional setback then football is not the spectator sport for them. It does nothing for the confidence of the team and the players all would have known they performed below par in that first half, perhaps fatigue from all the recent games in quick succession and the fact it was extremely hot and energy sapping out there today.

It's not great for new young fans to hear booing either, as it really puts them off wanting to come to games.
Si Robin
Posts: 5431
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:29
The booing was laughable but not surprising anymore.

I actually thought the atmosphere was brilliant. I now sit in Block 1 of the T&B and there's a couple in the corner who always try and sing along with the PRE and there were a few more today, including my 4 year old who loved his second ever game.

As for the game, I agree with LE that the first half was a scrap. I think the heat played a part in the slowness of the play, I was sweltering sitting down, let alone running around. Their goal was a joke. The flick ahead of Phillips completely threw him and Downes definitely wasn't expecting it to land on his shin. I'm a bit concerned by how long Phillips takes to make a decision. Quite often the ball will come into the box and he takes so long to make a decision a defender has cleared it (safety first) and he then looks dumbfounded. He needs to just make his mind up and dive on to the ball.

Second half we were much better, credit to GJ for that. We look so much stronger with Hall in the midfield at the moment and i was impressed by young Dickie. The difference between this team and most of any of the others I remember over the last few years is that I never really believed we weren't going to score. I knew it was just a matter of time, and so it proved.

I love how dangerous we are from corners, everytime Munns puts one in Downes or Parslow are putting the ball back across, we just need one of the others to be anticipating it more.

A great 3 points after a bit of a poor performance, I'll take that.
Nham68
Posts: 394
Joined: 17 Aug 2013, 16:33
Shade wrote:The few boos at half time were a joke. Yes, it wasn't good football from us but the effort wasn't lacking. A few ignorant, narrowminded fools that think this season is a continuation of last season
Just a small minority - and mostly aimed at the ref I thought ...
User avatar
Hubert Parry
Posts: 2443
Joined: 22 Jul 2011, 09:09
The system was a mistake on this occasion. Barrow played a simple system and were efficient - both in defence and attack. They were first to the 50/50 balls and played a high line. This point is a concern as the better teams will also do this knowing that we lack pace up front. As Barrow tired in the second period and dropped deeper, this created more space for the likes of Munns and Hall to be more effective.

The change of system worked - we nullified the physical threat of their forward two and took them out of the game. Dickie's range of passing meant that he was effectively an extra midfielder. There was also more freedom for the wing backs to bomb forward in attacks. Hall was the main difference for me - he achieved more in his first 30 seconds than Pell did in the entire half.

Phillips - his kicking is erratic at best, but demonstrated that he could throw the ball very effectively in the second half. Had very little to do, but probably at fault for the goal?

Barthram - impressive. He has pace and a good sense of positioning. He needs to stop the long range efforts though - the only black marks on an otherwise decent performance.

McLennan - I know it is early in the season, but I feel he is a cause for concern. His positioning was APPALLING and he was caught out hopelessly in their best chance in the opening minutes, and for the phase leading up to the corner, which led to their goal. He was better going forward, however.

Downes - one of those defenders who is rock solid for 80% of the time, but the other 20% can be a horror show. Such instances included completely misjudging the flight of the ball and losing ground on the forward - relying on Parslow to cover. As a partnership, they work well. Perhaps unfortunate with the OG.

Parslow - the better of the two. He is a very capable covering defender.

Storer - great determination to attack the ball for the goal, and broke up the play well. He is my player of the season so far.

Pell - I am sure he will be the first to admit that he had a shocker. He wasn't even close to making an impact on the game - perhaps completing 10% of his passes.

Munns - the pick of the starting XI. The type of player who, even when having a bad game, will always be a threat to the opposition. His ball control is second to none in this league, and if he could work on the angle of his final deliveries, he will not be playing VNL football for very long.

Waters - I have seen enough of him to think that he is perhaps better suited as our pacey striker option. He really struggles to make an impact on the game within the diamond. A very average performance, but his substitution was probably tactical rather than a comment on his performance. He had some good touches.

Wright - in the first half, he could not get into the game at all, but became more of a threat in the second half.

Morgan-Smith - no chance in the first half, but a thorn in their side in the second. I like his work rate - he reminds me of a slightly more talented Damian Spencer.

Hall - I would be starting him if he is fit enough - he completely changed the game. He has great vision and awareness and can pick out a pass early. He also knows when to make a late run, or to hold back. He is also a leader without an armband. My MOTM.

Dickie - composed on the ball and very solid defensively. A very promising debut. He made a real difference.

Cooke - a good impact player, although we have yet to see what he offers in terms of goalscoring. He did a capable job against a tiring defence.
CS85
Posts: 1154
Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 10:04
I quite like it that barthram takes on shots. Almost scored a great goal up in Chester.
More players willing to have a go at goal the better.
User avatar
Sprout Picker
Posts: 1150
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:20
Nice evaluation ST, enjoyed reading that and look forward to more of your thoughts on a similar vein.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29824
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Robin wrote:Well an awful first half where we contrived to make Andy Haworth looks reasonable topped with one of the most comedy own goals. Second half GJ shows why we have a top manager, changes the formation and there is only ever one winner.

Phillips - not much to do but hugely culpable for the comedy own goal when he completely missed the ball for their goal. I loved his celebrations at the end though (6)
Barthram - pretty anonymous first half, constant threat in the second half (7)
Downes - again not a great deal to do but looked a bit pedestrian first half, his own goal was one of the worst I've seen (6)
Parslow - Pick of the defence again for me (7)
McLennon - Another poorish game, one of the weaker links in the current team, too timid and lacking composure (6)
Storer - Quiet game by his standards but drove the team well second half (7)
Munns - see Storer, clearly frustrated in the first half (7)
Pell - rightly subbed, far from his best today and looks lost on the right wing (5)
Waters - same as Pell (5)
Wright - chased hard but didn't get a lot of joy (6)
AMS - Anonymous first half, did well in the second (6)

Subs:
Hall - absolutely must start next half, we are so much more solid when he is in the centre of midfield (7)
Dickie - again should start, mobile and solid at the back (7)
Cooke - his best game, caused them problems but missed a glorious chance (7)
Can we please spell McLennan correctly - basic respect for the player.
User avatar
Malabus
Posts: 13348
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 12:26
Location: The Death Star.
Booing is not needed when the team is still gelling. Hearing that is disappointing; but we have passionate fans which is positive. Love to see us get more fans through the turnstiles.
theidlerich
Posts: 1789
Joined: 03 Dec 2009, 09:22
Location: Cotswolds
Very frustrating first half; stuttered and spluttered to no real avail. Poor passing, and collectively too, much ‘hoof ball’ again. We are so much better when playing t’ball on the floor. Besides Wright didn’t collect and control one arial hoof towards him; let alone do something constructive with it! The own goal was a classic [– but not as good as Sido’s!]; Downes and Phillips collectively at fault, but these events happen. However the team I felt responded; but again our Achilles heel showed; no killer pass, or if it was our two “forwards” were not in any position to take advantage. Felt substitutions were too late again [ Pell excepted]; but the pressure finally paid off. A game we should have won comfortably if we are to gain and or be in contention for promotion. Wright, Downes and AMS [?] may be the right style of player needed; but they are not up to the standard required for top 5. This might be a little negative; but I wish for automatic promotion and I don’t believe this squad [defensively weak centre right and forwards] will do it, sadly.
(Haworth one of the decent players on the pitch; obviously we missed something here.) Ref ok; T&B stand lino poor!
Artemis
Posts: 2352
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 20:36
I think this squad is still gelling, and GJ learning which combinations work and which don't. Poor spells, games or sequences are only to be expected in a team that settled and knows its individual components inside out, let alone one which is newly assembled from scratch. That we have a manager who is willing to make changes - and so far changes that makes a positive difference is something that others won't have. I wouldn't-rule out winning the league at this stage. There is so much football still to be played. We will get better. I fancy yesterday's second half won't be the last outing for the 3-5-2 arrangement.
Si Robin
Posts: 5431
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:29
theidlerich wrote:Very frustrating first half; stuttered and spluttered to no real avail. Poor passing, and collectively too, much ‘hoof ball’ again. We are so much better when playing t’ball on the floor. Besides Wright didn’t collect and control one arial hoof towards him; let alone do something constructive with it! The own goal was a classic [– but not as good as Sido’s!]; Downes and Phillips collectively at fault, but these events happen. However the team I felt responded; but again our Achilles heel showed; no killer pass, or if it was our two “forwards” were not in any position to take advantage. Felt substitutions were too late again [ Pell excepted]; but the pressure finally paid off. A game we should have won comfortably if we are to gain and or be in contention for promotion. Wright, Downes and AMS [?] may be the right style of player needed; but they are not up to the standard required for top 5. This might be a little negative; but I wish for automatic promotion and I don’t believe this squad [defensively weak centre right and forwards] will do it, sadly.
(Haworth one of the decent players on the pitch; obviously we missed something here.) Ref ok; T&B stand lino poor!
Two were made at half-time. How early do you want them?
London Exile
Posts: 3197
Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 15:48
Unfortunately as one of the more fancied teams to do well in this league, we will need to be prepared for more games like yesterday where teams come to frustrate us and put us off our passing game.
We didn't play brilliantly yesterday but we won which is the most important thing.
Even when things didn't go our way in the first half, you couldn't fault the effort of the players. The change of shape worked well and it's great that we have the players to fit this system.

Looking forward to next weekends double header now
Robin
Posts: 16025
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
theidlerich wrote:Very frustrating first half; stuttered and spluttered to no real avail. Poor passing, and collectively too, much ‘hoof ball’ again. We are so much better when playing t’ball on the floor. Besides Wright didn’t collect and control one arial hoof towards him; let alone do something constructive with it! The own goal was a classic [– but not as good as Sido’s!]; Downes and Phillips collectively at fault, but these events happen. However the team I felt responded; but again our Achilles heel showed; no killer pass, or if it was our two “forwards” were not in any position to take advantage. Felt substitutions were too late again [ Pell excepted]; but the pressure finally paid off. A game we should have won comfortably if we are to gain and or be in contention for promotion. Wright, Downes and AMS [?] may be the right style of player needed; but they are not up to the standard required for top 5. This might be a little negative; but I wish for automatic promotion and I don’t believe this squad [defensively weak centre right and forwards] will do it, sadly.
(Haworth one of the decent players on the pitch; obviously we missed something here.) Ref ok; T&B stand lino poor!
The standard in the bottom half of this league is incredibly poor that much is clear however we have yet to see any of our promotion rivals so hard to assess just yet if we can win this league or not.
TheRaven
Posts: 260
Joined: 04 Jun 2012, 14:41
My one concern is the insistence on playing 4 centre midfielders from the start who compete to see just who can stay closest to the centre of the pitch. The complete lack of width in that diamond formation was evident from the start and results in zero creativity each time it is employed. At least Gj changed it up at half time. I just hope we don't have to see it any more. The lack of width in the squad as a whole is a problem that is not difficult to notice.
User avatar
Nesty
Posts: 6657
Joined: 18 Jun 2011, 09:17
Hubert Parry wrote:The system was a mistake on this occasion. Barrow played a simple system and were efficient - both in defence and attack. They were first to the 50/50 balls and played a high line. This point is a concern as the better teams will also do this knowing that we lack pace up front. As Barrow tired in the second period and dropped deeper, this created more space for the likes of Munns and Hall to be more effective.

The change of system worked - we nullified the physical threat of their forward two and took them out of the game. Dickie's range of passing meant that he was effectively an extra midfielder. There was also more freedom for the wing backs to bomb forward in attacks. Hall was the main difference for me - he achieved more in his first 30 seconds than Pell did in the entire half.

Phillips - his kicking is erratic at best, but demonstrated that he could throw the ball very effectively in the second half. Had very little to do, but probably at fault for the goal?

Barthram - impressive. He has pace and a good sense of positioning. He needs to stop the long range efforts though - the only black marks on an otherwise decent performance.

McLennan - I know it is early in the season, but I feel he is a cause for concern. His positioning was APPALLING and he was caught out hopelessly in their best chance in the opening minutes, and for the phase leading up to the corner, which led to their goal. He was better going forward, however.

Downes - one of those defenders who is rock solid for 80% of the time, but the other 20% can be a horror show. Such instances included completely misjudging the flight of the ball and losing ground on the forward - relying on Parslow to cover. As a partnership, they work well. Perhaps unfortunate with the OG.

Parslow - the better of the two. He is a very capable covering defender.

Storer - great determination to attack the ball for the goal, and broke up the play well. He is my player of the season so far.

Pell - I am sure he will be the first to admit that he had a shocker. He wasn't even close to making an impact on the game - perhaps completing 10% of his passes.

Munns - the pick of the starting XI. The type of player who, even when having a bad game, will always be a threat to the opposition. His ball control is second to none in this league, and if he could work on the angle of his final deliveries, he will not be playing VNL football for very long.

Waters - I have seen enough of him to think that he is perhaps better suited as our pacey striker option. He really struggles to make an impact on the game within the diamond. A very average performance, but his substitution was probably tactical rather than a comment on his performance. He had some good touches.

Wright - in the first half, he could not get into the game at all, but became more of a threat in the second half.

Morgan-Smith - no chance in the first half, but a thorn in their side in the second. I like his work rate - he reminds me of a slightly more talented Damian Spencer.

Hall - I would be starting him if he is fit enough - he completely changed the game. He has great vision and awareness and can pick out a pass early. He also knows when to make a late run, or to hold back. He is also a leader without an armband. My MOTM.

Dickie - composed on the ball and very solid defensively. A very promising debut. He made a real difference.

Cooke - a good impact player, although we have yet to see what he offers in terms of goalscoring. He did a capable job against a tiring defence.
Spot on
baggy89
Posts: 567
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 12:55
Storer I think is better with Hall. First half he seemed unwilling to put his foot on the ball, instead panicky booted "clearances". Once Hall was on (same in Aldershot match) he pushed forward and offered much more.

Was that the first time we've scored from a corner since Billy Jones left?

Some shot from Munns in the first half and fair play to their keeper he must have seen it late as it curled round the defender towards the bottom corner. Any other day that would have gone in. Good few through balls second half that had they come off would have resulted in goals.

Cooke first touch is a bit lacking but willing to chase and press, imo important traits in one of your forwards, allows the team push the opposition back. Once your doing that chances will come.

As I said after Aldershot McLennan looks a bit suspect but though he was better today. I'm also not sure if his positional naivety is not helped by Downes also being a bit too rigid positionally. Maybe this is something that will improve with more games. Then again he wasn't tested as much as in the Aldershot game as he had the the Barrow right winger for pace.

Ref I wasn't over impressed with. Barrow forward should have been carded for an embarrassing dive. Player that went two footed into Munns only got away with it because of Munns quick feet and, I think I'm right in saying, it was the same player who went two footed studs up out of control towards Amari not 5 minute previous to that. As for the p!## take in telling our players to "hurry up" after the winner when not a thing was said to their keeper during any of his minute plus goal kicks/free kicks in final third...
Si Robin
Posts: 5431
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:29
baggy89 wrote: Was that the first time we've scored from a corner since Billy Jones left?
You mean excluding the two from last Saturday?
trickster
Posts: 1247
Joined: 22 Nov 2009, 07:54
So far so good this season without being brilliant, the first half was quite poor on Saturday but we did something we haven’t done for a long time, changes were made and then it looked like there would only be one winner, its difficult playing Sat/Tues/ Sat/ Tues especially when players are not fully match fit, but it’s the same for everyone.

Some teams have hit the ground running but it’s a long season and it will be difficult to maintain that sort of form, if any team can do it fair play to them they will deserve promotion, I thought we chiselled out a result Saturday and if the old saying good teams pull off results when they are not playing well, then hopefully we are a good team, only a fool would predict where we will finish this early in the season but the signs are that it will be a more enjoyable season.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29824
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
TheRaven wrote:My one concern is the insistence on playing 4 centre midfielders from the start who compete to see just who can stay closest to the centre of the pitch. The complete lack of width in that diamond formation was evident from the start and results in zero creativity each time it is employed. At least Gj changed it up at half time. I just hope we don't have to see it any more. The lack of width in the squad as a whole is a problem that is not difficult to notice.
Indeed - I thought we saw the death of the diamond when it failed for Yates. Width will win you promotion in this league.
Post Reply