It's time to step up a level.

[Malabus]

Regarding the quality on the pitch and improvement of the stadium.
Cheltenham haven't got a good enough squad to compete in the football league and the 'air of acceptance' is not good enough to motivate the club to step up.
The stadium is poor, badly maintained with a pitch not good enough for park soccer, huge improvement is needed in all areas and people fantasying having a new stand which we know will never materialise....Of course we are not a wealthy club and I understand we are on a tight budget, investment is required to 'step up' but if we want a bright future we got to step out of our little bubble.

[Nesty]

we have to accept what we have is what we can afford. I would rather be where we are than go the way of Rushden. We owe PB a huge debt (probably literally) and maybe this is what is behind the planned reshuffle. PB is probably nearing the point where he cannot justify pouring his own money in when possibly nearing the end of his professional career. I would think a lot of caravan insurance has been gobbled up by compare.com or whatever.

[andgarod]

I think its park homes he insures and his loan is down to £60K down from £120K or at least it was in last years account
Does he charge the players or the club the rent for putting players up , hes had a good run of eager tennants paying his mortgage - just saying

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

we have to accept what we have is what we can afford. I would rather be where we are than go the way of Rushden. We owe PB a huge debt (probably literally) and maybe this is what is behind the planned reshuffle. PB is probably nearing the point where he cannot justify pouring his own money in when possibly nearing the end of his professional career. I would think a lot of caravan insurance has been gobbled up by compare.com or whatever.

I agree Nesty. There is a fine line to investing in order to grow, and overspending and going bust.

[everyman]

Regarding the quality on the pitch and improvement of the stadium.
Cheltenham haven't got a good enough squad to compete in the football league and the 'air of acceptance' is not good enough to motivate the club to step up.
The stadium is poor, badly maintained with a pitch not good enough for park soccer, huge improvement is needed in all areas and people fantasying having a new stand which we know will never materialise....Of course we are not a wealthy club and I understand we are on a tight budget, investment is required to 'step up' but if we want a bright future we got to step out of our little bubble.

We are what we are,just enjoy the small bonuses we earn as basically a non league club.

[Malabus]

Well if fans of the club are content and perfectly happy for us to be a yo-yo club between the dark depths of L2 and the Noddy league for the next 50 years then so be it!....But it's a dangerous path to trod on when other smaller clubs are evolving [Burton; Fleetwood and *cough cough* FGR] and its fundamental fact that if you don't progress you become extinct. But no need to worry by 2067 humans will be spending most of their time in virtual reality, playing the role in a Lara Croft game titled "In Search Of Ancient Relics of The Labour Party" the certain next step of the human evolution.

So get your hiking boots on and follow the sign that says "Dinosaurville"

[Robin]

While the little old Cheltenham mentality still lingers in some I don't believe there is anyone who doesn't recognise the need for a new stand the only debate is how big and how to fund it. The new Chairman and directors absolutely need to this to be priority number one closely followed by giving GJ a budget to get the club back into league one.

Also Whaddon Road is an average league two standard ground, it probably needs a bigger capacity and more seats, certainly a better pitch but it's not too bad overall. Have you been to Accrington, Exeter, Newport, Cambridge because all of them are significantly worse than ours.

As for our current squad our form since January is good enough to be in the play offs so I disagree there.

[Alf]

We are not going to fill a new stadium when the team is underperforming.
Attendances will not increase because there is a fancy new stand to sit in.
I can see the point of a new stand if it helps to generate year round income (Conference centre etc;) but this would need a big investment.
Paul Baker has worked wonders at the club on what is, compared to many, a limited budget.
It would be good if his successor had a larger spend so that problems such as the stand, pitch etc; could be sorted without impacting on the team.

[Robin]

Sorry Alf but I have to disagree, you don't build a stadium on average attendances you build it on maximum potential for big games. The reality is as follows:
a) we have one of the smallest grounds in the football league.
b) The away end isn't large enough to cope with following from bigger clubs, especially in league one.
c) We sell out the home seating fairly regularly for big league games which suggests we need more.
d) For big cup games we could easily sell a couple of thousand more tickets, again lost revenue.
e) The new stand will allow to move the pitch across and put up a barrier at the In2print side.
f) we have poor non-match day corporate income new stand is crucial for this.

I believe all of the above means we need a new main stand which increases revenue on match days and non-match days. Remember those in the Paddock also need to pay seating prices too or move to the LMI.

[Hubert Parry]

If we're going to build a new main stand, we have to do it right and not on the cheap. I think PB himself has suggested that the ground needs to be of a standard to last another century. From an atmospheric point of view, I'd like to see a steep stand which can generate noise even if it is only half full. Ideally we should be looking at a capacity of 8-10k to make the most of the marquee matches

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

We will be hosting Coventry (if they exist) next season - CTFC should already speaking to anyone with ST's in Blocks 6, 7 and 8, maybe even 5 of the In2P to see if they are happy to relocate to 1, 2, 3, or 4 (if any space in 4 remains) as we will want to cram as many Sky Blues in as we can.

Another example of where a new stand with 3,000 plus seats would be a good asset.

I think Hubert's assessment is the correct one; it has to be a worthwhile investment and has to be done correctly.

[Del Boy]

Building a new stand would saddle the club with huge debt. And I have to laugh when I read people saying non-match day income.
It's rare anyone says what this is going to be. Sometimes conference facilities is mentioned as if people are going to flock in. Cheltenham is more than catered for with similar facilities - established facilities in far better locations.
A fitness centre could work but again there's plenty of competition and I'm not sure how much growth there is in this sector. The only viable scheme I can see would be office space or student accommodation and that brings other difficulties with it.

Building a new stand would obviously be great but could end up dragging the club down. To do it in the hope of promotion to league one when we're strugging to stay in league 2 or in the hope of a big cup match that we haven't had for years would be a crazy business decision.

[Robin]

Absolutely spot on Hubert and RCS. A new main stand of about 3500 plus space for offices and hospitality would be ambitious but also sensible, raising the capacity to I would guess around 8500 which we would fill for big cup games.

[Robin]

Building a new stand would saddle the club with huge debt. And I have to laugh when I read people saying non-match day income.
It's rare anyone says what this is going to be. Sometimes conference facilities is mentioned as if people are going to flock in. Cheltenham is more than catered for with similar facilities - established facilities in far better locations.
A fitness centre could work but again there's plenty of competition and I'm not sure how much growth there is in this sector. The only viable scheme I can see would be office space or student accommodation and that brings other difficulties with it.

Building a new stand would obviously be great but could end up dragging the club down. To do it in the hope of promotion to league one when we're strugging to stay in league 2 or in the hope of a big cup match that we haven't had for years would be a crazy business decision.

You raise a number of valid points but offer no solutions. Burton and Rochdale have thrived on smaller gates than us due to non-match day income. Look at my above post and tell me how you would solve the problems with limited away capacity without building a new main stand?

[Del Boy]

That's just it - there probably isn't any solution. To compare Cheltenham to Burton is ludicrous. The only similarity is that their ground and our ground have similar capacity.

What your proposing could easily destroy the club. If you think a few teams with big away support a couple of times a season is going to suddenly make us a big player you are miles away from the truth.

The bottom line is we've over-achieved given our finances. No business would make a huge investment the size of a new stand without having confidence that the figures add up to sustainable growth. I dare say they've looked at those figures and it's become glaringly obvious they don't.

[Reliant Robin]

I think andgarod's post above needs to be removed; it hints at some form of insider corruption on a completely baseless supposition.

Just saying

[Del Boy]

I think andgarod's post above needs to be removed; it hints at some form of insider corruption on a completely baseless supposition.

Just saying

I don't think it hints at corruption - more the poster's stupidity. For one, someone who is wealthy enough to be chairman of a football club and has obviously put in significant sums into that football club - and given that persons age - he is unlikely to have a mortgage.

And to think that having some young footballers lodging with him is going to make him rich just underlines that stupidity. But there's never a shortage of that on this board.

[Alf]

The phrase 'big cup games' is being banded about like we have a stack of these games every season. The truth is that until we get a team that can perform consistently in these competitions the dream of 'big cup games' is just going to be pie in the sky. You won't have people making large financial investments in the hope that we win a few cup games and draw Man Utd at home.

[Robin]

Our form since Accrington is play off standard Alf.

[andgarod]

RR sorry I responded to Nestys posting about caravans.
What insider corruption are you wittering on about
I and others have read the accounts and the chairmans loan has reduced ( based on 2015/16) accounts
but then Im not an accountant so may have mis- read the accounts
RR have you read the accounts and can explain it too me ?

Rhetorical question does he charge for the lodgers and if so who
You might rent a room out or charge a family member rent
Is this away of reducing charges to the club. I seem to recall loan players staying at the Thistle!
I thought the club used to pay supporters bed and lodgings for young players?
Didnt 4 young players rent a flat last season or did the club rent it form them ? I am only asking a question

Of course he doesnt have a mortgage because hes how old. I dont know how old he is. Why would a 50, 60 or 70 yr old not have a mortgage because of their age ?

Feel free to answer any of the questions because I dont know the answers but you and others obviously do

In his last interview the chairman talks about commercial acumen, well we need business men and they make money and are not a charity. Im sure if they are CTFC supporters then they have made interest free loans to the club just as our chairman has.

Sure it would be nice if a chairman with millions to give away to build us a stand would be nice , but I suspect strings would be attached.

Let me make one thing clear and that is that as far as I am concerned Paul Baker is entitled to have every penny paid back and that we should be grateful that he was prepared to put up interest free loans to the club as others did in the past and for that I am grateful

[leohoenig]

Paul Baker has not only loaned money to the club, but also over time changed loans to stock, for which he is unlikely ever to get his money back.

The accounts for 2014-15 states the club relies on loans of £442,970 while the figure in 2015-16 was £362,971 - a drop of £79,999!
The accounts do not state which director(s) have had loans repaid.
The 2013-14 accounts mention a £50,000 advance from a shareholder repayable over 10 years, (or from the income of the next game against Premier opposition). One assumes that some of that advance was repaid.

We have had a chairman with enough to give away to move us from the Southern League to the Football League.
All very well if we can now find one with the ability to finance a new stand, but I would prefer to see us struggle along as we are now than to risk the club's future with a shyster at the top. Just take a look around the lower divisions of the football league, and the higher divisions of non-League. Do you really like the alternatives to what we have now?

[andgarod]

Thank you Leo as always you have an insight that many dont

I totally agree that we are better of being solvent rather than being at the mercy of property developers
I assume one of the reasons none have come in are we dont own the ground and the chairman has not liked the cut of their jibs

As previously stated Lge 2 is not sustainable unless you sell players or have a good cup cup run and draw a big team and have TV games

The problem Leo is the old guard are changing and that could mean choppy waters ahead

[everyman]

Sorry Alf but I have to disagree, you don't build a stadium on average attendances you build it on maximum potential for big games. The reality is as follows:
a) we have one of the smallest grounds in the football league.
b) The away end isn't large enough to cope with following from bigger clubs, especially in league one.
c) We sell out the home seating fairly regularly for big league games which suggests we need more.
d) For big cup games we could easily sell a couple of thousand more tickets, again lost revenue.
e) The new stand will allow to move the pitch across and put up a barrier at the In2print side.
f) we have poor non-match day corporate income new stand is crucial for this.

I believe all of the above means we need a new main stand which increases revenue on match days and non-match days. Remember those in the Paddock also need to pay seating prices too or move to the LMI.

I agree with e)we could widen the pitch which would improve the quality of football and allow us to build non-obstructive dug-outs.

[andgarod]

The clue is in the name
dugout
Nothing dug out just a bike shelter planked on the edge of pitch
I am surprised that Malabus does not use it for his bike

Moving 10 yards across would free up a strop to do some warm up and have the practice goal.
It would also allow the improvement of drainage in the corner

All we need is the £5M and planning permission

[Alf]

Sorry Alf but I have to disagree, you don't build a stadium on average attendances you build it on maximum potential for big games. The reality is as follows:
a) we have one of the smallest grounds in the football league.
b) The away end isn't large enough to cope with following from bigger clubs, especially in league one.
c) We sell out the home seating fairly regularly for big league games which suggests we need more.
d) For big cup games we could easily sell a couple of thousand more tickets, again lost revenue.
e) The new stand will allow to move the pitch across and put up a barrier at the In2print side.
f) we have poor non-match day corporate income new stand is crucial for this.

I believe all of the above means we need a new main stand which increases revenue on match days and non-match days. Remember those in the Paddock also need to pay seating prices too or move to the LMI.

I agree with e)we could widen the pitch which would improve the quality of football and allow us to build non-obstructive dug-outs.

Not disagreeing with the benefits of new facilities and have posted in the past my support for improvements. I just feel that, currently, if there is a bit of cash to play with I would rather it go to strengthen the team.

[Shade]

Wow, all this came about because a 2-0 defeat at the league leaders after 4 games unbeaten. Incredible.

[duckers]

I'd like to see the back and the roof of the PRE taken off and replaced with a new one with a concrete wall at the back. If that's possible. A few extra tiers where the walkway behind it is. Relocate the burger van. It would increase the volume of the home fans with better acoustics, and therefore improve the match day experience for everyone, encouraging more fans.. maybe.. It's frustrating how much louder we sound in some away ends with less people singing.

[vickeryc]

... All very well if we can now find one with the ability to finance a new stand, but I would prefer to see us struggle along as we are now than to risk the club's future with a shyster at the top. Just take a look around the lower divisions of the football league, and the higher divisions of non-League. Do you really like the alternatives to what we have now?

I think this paints a somewhat one dimensional and pessimistic view. First off, no supporter in their right mind would advocate needlessly placing the club's future at risk. Equally, I doubt there are many that would want to see the club 'struggle along' (although that could be the least-worst option). There is, however, a real danger that - by doing nothing - other clubs with a more ambitious outlook could overtake us and we end up relegated as a result.

There has to be a middle way to achieve a realistically ambitious future for the club. That can only be achieved by starting with a vision and using that as a basis for carefully planning the club's future. Success would, of course, be conditional upon that vision attracting the right sort of investment for the club. I agree with others that a new stand, incorporating revenue-earning facilities beyond football is the most sustainable way forward PROVIDED it can be financed within the club's means. If it can't, then I suppose we would have to struggle along and hope we can survive in the league's basement.

[everyman]

I'd like to see the back and the roof of the PRE taken off and replaced with a new one with a concrete wall at the back. If that's possible. A few extra tiers where the walkway behind it is. Relocate the burger van. It would increase the volume of the home fans with better acoustics, and therefore improve the match day experience for everyone, encouraging more fans.. maybe.. It's frustrating how much louder we sound in some away ends with less people singing.

Just move the whole shed back to the fence,with a walkway in front-pitchside.

[vickeryc]

I'd like to see the back and the roof of the PRE taken off and replaced with a new one with a concrete wall at the back. If that's possible. A few extra tiers where the walkway behind it is. Relocate the burger van. It would increase the volume of the home fans with better acoustics, and therefore improve the match day experience for everyone, encouraging more fans.. maybe.. It's frustrating how much louder we sound in some away ends with less people singing.

Just move the whole shed back to the fence,with a walkway in front-pitchside.

The whole of the PRE needs a rethink in my view, but not before the main stand side has been resolved. Although that end of the ground was re-terraced and roofed around the time we got into the FL, it remains a bit of a non-league style hangover. If the PRE is to be improved at some point, it should be looked at holistically. While I agree that it is poor by modern standards, it would be folly to come up with a temporary 'quick fix'. I believe it would be more sensible and cost-effective to address improvements to that end of the ground in due course, taking full account of constraints such as the stream behind the stand.

[Nesty]

the whole club needs a rethink , we are still non league - and thats where we are heading again if we dont get a few wins soon.

[Malabus]

the whole club needs a rethink , we are still non league - and thats where we are heading again if we dont get a few wins soon.

Correct, we haven't evolved. Living in the 'acceptance' bubble.

[London Exile]

I think the new directors we are hoping to appoint will bring some new life and zest to the board which will hopefully create resources to make us competitive at this level.

Regarding the comments on the PRE, I agree it needs a major overhaul. We need to offer a terrace with decent facilities and get that end of the ground rocking again.
Hopefully if the land swap progresses then we could see something done with both the main stand and PRE.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

E. Gillespie will sort it out when he joins the board in the summer.

[Malabus]

E. Gillespie will sort it out when he joins the board in the summer.

Move us to the nags track where we should have gone in the first place. Lack of ambition from the board once again.