Appeals against red cards

[Jon Palmer]

Not good news: http://bit.ly/AppealsCTFC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Shade]

Well there's a f#!$ surprise. I expect the panel took all of 10 seconds to deliver their verdicts. General Melchett's black hat was already on before it started.

[Malabus]

I have totally (100%) lost faith in the system that runs the national game.
Each and every season it's becoming a total joke.

Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk

[Sprout Picker]

Well there's a f#!$ surprise. I expect the panel took all of 10 seconds to deliver their verdicts. General Melchett's black hat was already on before it started.

Agree Shade, not surprised at all. These things only seem to get overturned if you're Man Utd (or similar) and the world and his dog are up in arms after seeing it from 23 different angles on Sky.

[THECHOIRBOY]

Agree Sprout Picker. But that is why lower leagues rarely get overturned. It will be seen as is there enough evidence to overturn it....rather than is there enough evidence for it to stand.

Lower leagues will rarely ever be enough for it to be overturned.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Proof the authorities are corrupt and biased.

[theidlerich]

No real surprise on the outcome. Have they enough video coverage to make an informed decision? If it's just the one angle [highlights stuff] then that is poor and needs rectifying. As does the competence of match officials. We have seen a few decent refs and linos; many inconsistent and many downright incompetent. Even at this level a considerable shakeup and improvement required.

[voiceofreason]

I see that the powers that be at Field Mill have rewarded Danny Rose's oscar-winning performance on Saturday with a new contract.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I see that the powers that be at Field Mill have rewarded Danny Rose's oscar-winning performance on Saturday with a new contract.

Proved himself to be a skanky enough cheat to be part of an Evans set up.

I bet Evans threatens the players and says that any players who do not cheat won't be given a contract, putting their livelihoods on the line.

[Tewkesbury Robin]

I have watched the highlights of the Mansfield game several times over and I still cannot see what Moore is supposed to have done. If the footage in inclusive then I would have thought that the benefit of the doubt should go to the "offender" not the referee.

Danny Wright`s is a little more obvious as he does put his arm across their player - whilst being fouled by the way, even the inept referee agreed on that score. It is hardly a swinging elbow delivered with any force and the sort of thing that is seen several times in matches. I suppose once there was "contact" he gave the referee (Evans/Raynor) a decision to make and it could be justified.

If anyone wants a former players insight into Evans` management style then I suggest "Journeyman" an autobiography by Ben Smith a lower league journeyman that we were once linked with signing who played for him at Crawley.

[Rick]

I have to agree with you Tewksbury Robin. Pretty much how I saw it.
That said the Officials in this league are poor in my eyes.

[Shade]

That said the Officials in this league are poor in my eyes.

Trouble is there are plenty of c!#p ones in the leagues above as well, so the very rare good one that we get will just move up to replace one of the c!#p ones that will then fall down into L1 and 2.

[Shade]

Danny Wright`s is a little more obvious as he does put his arm across their player - whilst being fouled by the way, even the inept referee agreed on that score. It is hardly a swinging elbow delivered with any force and the sort of thing that is seen several times in matches. I suppose once there was "contact" he gave the referee (Evans/Raynor) a decision to make and it could be justified.

I completely agree with you. If you look closely you can see Wright's arm is out straight, holding the player that is fouling him off, and not in an elbowing postion. The guy is tugging on him and nearly pulling him over. He corrects his step and the guy basically headbutts Wright's upper arm, a soft part of the arm, really, if there is any contact at all. It's just manly jostling that ends with a guy being a pathetic cheat. In hindsight, DW should have just gone down but he tried to stay up and not play as dirty as them and it's cost him (and us). In fact, the more I watch it, the less and less it looks like an elbow as you can see his arm out straight and move upwards, not back. It's not DW's fault if he did stick his head in the way.

You can also see the ref, linesman and 4th official initially don't react at all. So what changed between the foul being given to DW and the red card being shown?

[Tewkesbury Robin]

The answer can also be found in the highlights clip. If you look at the top of the screen you can see Evans and his shadow running along the touchline simulating the throwing of an elbow in a synchronised routine that Diversity would struggle to better. They then go snivelling to the linesman/fourth official to give vent to their imagination.

[Malabus]

Neither were straight reds....anyone that got two eyes and a brain can see that.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Great analysis from Shade and Tewkesbury Robin and others above.

Neither were red cards. The referee, without spine, has crumbled and bottled it in the face of Evans and Raynor. Was the referee simply 'influenced' to make the wrong decision, genuinely scared, or coerced / bribed / instructed by others? In this case the former two I suspect but it makes you think.

And the appeals panel? Talk about looking after your own. If they can come up with the slightest reason not to overturn a referee decision they won't do it. At least in the Prem there are more angles, replays and pundits pointing out mistakes that appeals work. At our level they look after their own and screw the clubs affected.

It is archaic. Reminiscent of the police in the 60s and 70s or the BBC covering up for Saville etc. The FA and FL get shed loads of money from the public purse, ticket revenue, TV and sponsorship, etc and it is disgusting that in 2018 they operate in a bunker to defend their own rather than act as custodians for the game they are meant to manage and enhance. It has nothing to do with protecting or respecting referees. The best thing for referees would be if red cards like this were rescinded and the FA sat down and talked through the referee why so they can learn and improve. Better for referees to learn and improve, better for clubs to have improved referees and better for the FA to have fewer appeals and controversies. But for whatever reason the FA would rather deny mistakes happen than let referees learn from them. And that is backwards, insular and it stinks.

Whether it is about having the right face, school tie, or secret handshake I don't know but it is clear that the FA are the enemies of the majority of lower league clubs and fans.

As we said after they intervened with the Woking cup tie and other harsh punishments they dished out; F*ck the FA. We need that on a banner in view of the camera at WR and we need other clubs who are damaged by the arrogant self-serving corruption to do the same.

[longmover]

The FA want rid of leagues one and two, they're after the champ and perm £ and will do their bidding to slowly turn the screw.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

The FA want rid of leagues one and two, they're after the champ and perm £ and will do their bidding to slowly turn the screw.

Could be on to something there. Look how little action the FA take when clubs are taken over and ruined by dodgy owners.

Coventry are a prime example. FA won't do anything. Coventry is a giant by League Two standards. From an FA point of view, it is easier to get rid of League Two the fewer big clubs there are in it.

Once the FA have helped the Prem to inflate ticket prices to £30+ in L2 and killed attendances they can use that as an excuse...."we can't sustain a national professional league two with average crowds of 800 so we are going regionalise it and make it part-time. This does mean however we can allow Disney to show Premier League games at 2pm, 3pm and 4pm on a Saturday, bringing £200billion of investment into the game in this country."

[little mo]

I have watched the highlights of the Mansfield game several times over and I still cannot see what Moore is supposed to have done. If the footage in inclusive then I would have thought that the benefit of the doubt should go to the "offender" not the referee.

Danny Wright`s is a little more obvious as he does put his arm across their player - whilst being fouled by the way, even the inept referee agreed on that score. It is hardly a swinging elbow delivered with any force and the sort of thing that is seen several times in matches. I suppose once there was "contact" he gave the referee (Evans/Raynor) a decision to make and it could be justified.

If anyone wants a former players insight into Evans` management style then I suggest "Journeyman" an autobiography by Ben Smith a lower league journeyman that we were once linked with signing who played for him at Crawley.

"Journeyman" by Ben Smith is a really good book, and his views on Evans, well lets just say I don't think they send each other xmas cards any more.
What was even more interesting was when we tried to sign him ( on two different occasions and different managers) now that was an eye opener.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I have watched the highlights of the Mansfield game several times over and I still cannot see what Moore is supposed to have done. If the footage in inclusive then I would have thought that the benefit of the doubt should go to the "offender" not the referee.

Danny Wright`s is a little more obvious as he does put his arm across their player - whilst being fouled by the way, even the inept referee agreed on that score. It is hardly a swinging elbow delivered with any force and the sort of thing that is seen several times in matches. I suppose once there was "contact" he gave the referee (Evans/Raynor) a decision to make and it could be justified.

If anyone wants a former players insight into Evans` management style then I suggest "Journeyman" an autobiography by Ben Smith a lower league journeyman that we were once linked with signing who played for him at Crawley.

"Journeyman" by Ben Smith is a really good book, and his views on Evans, well lets just say I don't think they send each other xmas cards any more.
What was even more interesting was when we tried to sign him ( on two different occasions and different managers) now that was an eye opener.

What happened when we tried to sign him?

[little mo]

Will tell you tomorrow RCS, sorry. I only have a lap top, am going out,getting shouted at to get a move on or else .

[little mo]

I will do it today RCS. But it will take a while, however the two managers were JW and Mad Dog.

[Alf]

Totally agree with Tewkesbury Robin and subsequent posts. You can imagine how long the
FA panel spent on this. “Right chaps, you’ve all seen the video, anyone see a prob? No? Good, lunch booked at Boodles in half an hour, we don’t want to be late for that. Steak and Kidney pudding for me. What!” ......”Oh, sorry, some of you missed it whilst pouring drinks, well take my word for it, they’re all guilty, fwah, fwah”

The ref didn’t see a problem with the Moore challenge, those of us who have viewed the incident can’t see a problem but the Lino, who was presumably getting verbal earache from the Chuckle Brothers on the touchline calls him over and tells him that Moore’s arm is raised (but not threateningly IMO) and he sees the Mansfield player fall backwards holding his face. Could he really have seen any more than the ref or was he just losing it a bit?
You wouldn’t convict anyone in a court of law on such evidence and referees surely have to be almost 100% certain before red carding, giving penalties etc; So why is this referee getting the support of the FA for making a very poor decision?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Totally agree with Tewkesbury Robin and subsequent posts. You can imagine how long the
FA panel spent on this. “Right chaps, you’ve all seen the video, anyone see a prob? No? Good, lunch booked at Boodles in half an hour, we don’t want to be late for that. Steak and Kidney pudding for me. What!” ......”Oh, sorry, some of you missed it whilst pouring drinks, well take my word for it, they’re all guilty, fwah, fwah”

The ref didn’t see a problem with the Moore challenge, those of us who have viewed the incident can’t see a problem but the Lino, who was presumably getting verbal earache from the Chuckle Brothers on the touchline calls him over and tells him that Moore’s arm is raised (but not threateningly IMO) and he sees the Mansfield player fall backwards holding his face. Could he really have seen any more than the ref or was he just losing it a bit?
You wouldn’t convict anyone in a court of law on such evidence and referees surely have to be almost 100% certain before red carding, giving penalties etc; So why is this referee getting the support of the FA for making a very poor decision?

Protecting their own. They operate a blame culture so view overturning a referee as a negative thing rather than as a positive chance to help referees improve.

[Alf]

........and it’s the easiest way out for them as they know it’s not likely to go any further. I doubt Moore would have walked in a Premier game, the officials are a bit more street wise and aware that all incidents are recorded from every possible angle and know what sort of s#!t can come their way if they cock up. They make mistakes but not one like that!

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

........and it’s the easiest way out for them as they know it’s not likely to go any further. I doubt Moore would have walked in a Premier game, the officials are a bit more street wise and aware that all incidents are recorded from every possible angle and know what sort of s#!t can come their way if they cock up. They make mistakes but not one like that!

Match of the Day would have crucified the ref for that decision.

[little mo]

Here we go RCS, I will do the one involving JW first. I'ts the 2006-07 season and Smith has dropped out of the league and is playing for Weymouth who are paying silly money. In January 2007 all the players are told the money has dried up and they are free to find new clubs even though he still had 125k of contract in place.
So he contacted five football league clubs,Hereford (he was still living there at the time) Bournemouth,Macclesfield, Cheltenham and Peterborough. He met JW first who brought PB with him. But he then said that JW admitted he had not actually seen him play but Keith Downing had and his secretary(presumably PG) had been impressed with the two goals he scored against FGR.
PB then asked him the big question. What was he earning? I will quote what he says in the book now.
"I did what everyone does in this situation and told a little white lie. I said I was due a 5k signing on fee and was on a basic of £1,100 a week.
They asked me if I could give them five minutes in private and,when I returned to the table,i got a lovely surprise. They said the club was willing to offer me a three and a half year contract with a 20k signing on fee, plus £1,200 a week for the rest of the season rising to 1,300 then1,400 then 1,500. There were also some bonuses included,such as goal bonuses and £5,000 for every year the club stayed in League One.
I managed to supress a smile somehow and told them I would have to think about it. When I got back to my car I just laughed to myself. I was expecting Cheltenham to match my Weymouth contract at best,not blow it out of the water."
Weymouth then said they wanted a transfer fee,he pointed out that he was giving up a 125k contract that they could not pay anyway. But Chelt offered 20k which was accepted. In the end he went to Hereford.
All these bonuses and wages and length of contract to a player who admits he was a "Journeyman"by a manager who had not even seen him play. Phew we had a lucky escape me thinks.
I will tell you about the Martin Allen meeting later,but it sums up perfectly why he is known as Mad Dog.

[Shade]

Sounds like a proper mercenary. He would have fitted in well with most of our 2014/15 squad.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Here we go RCS, I will do the one involving JW first. I'ts the 2006-07 season and Smith has dropped out of the league and is playing for Weymouth who are paying silly money. In January 2007 all the players are told the money has dried up and they are free to find new clubs even though he still had 125k of contract in place.
So he contacted five football league clubs,Hereford (he was still living there at the time) Bournemouth,Macclesfield, Cheltenham and Peterborough. He met JW first who brought PB with him. But he then said that JW admitted he had not actually seen him play but Keith Downing had and his secretary(presumably PG) had been impressed with the two goals he scored against FGR.
PB then asked him the big question. What was he earning? I will quote what he says in the book now.
"I did what everyone does in this situation and told a little white lie. I said I was due a 5k signing on fee and was on a basic of £1,100 a week.
They asked me if I could give them five minutes in private and,when I returned to the table,i got a lovely surprise. They said the club was willing to offer me a three and a half year contract with a 20k signing on fee, plus £1,200 a week for the rest of the season rising to 1,300 then1,400 then 1,500. There were also some bonuses included,such as goal bonuses and £5,000 for every year the club stayed in League One.
I managed to supress a smile somehow and told them I would have to think about it. When I got back to my car I just laughed to myself. I was expecting Cheltenham to match my Weymouth contract at best,not blow it out of the water."
Weymouth then said they wanted a transfer fee,he pointed out that he was giving up a 125k contract that they could not pay anyway. But Chelt offered 20k which was accepted. In the end he went to Hereford.
All these bonuses and wages and length of contract to a player who admits he was a "Journeyman"by a manager who had not even seen him play. Phew we had a lucky escape me thinks.
I will tell you about the Martin Allen meeting later,but it sums up perfectly why he is known as Mad Dog.

Thanks for that Little Mo.

What were PB and JW thinking!! Not heard such suicidal negotiation from a Chairman since Seth Johnson met Peter Risdale when moving from Derby to Leeds. And we know how the Leeds finances ended up. No wonder Hereford went belly up if they bettered our offer!!

Interesting given the usual moans and gripes from this forum is that PB is too stingy!!

[Si Robin]

The Seth Johnson story is brilliant. Shame it's untrue.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... on-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Swolley]

What were you guys thinking appealing the reds? That's just Johnson being deluded and bitter about losing. You don't appeal blatant reds. You don't even appeal ones you're unsure about. He was clearly bitter about the red sending him off as in his interview he asked "have you ever seen someone booked for diving in the first 5min?" Erm sorry mate, but if it's a dive, it doesn't matter when it happened. That, to me, shows that the rules don't matter much to GJ and emotion took over. And the fact he's arguing against 2 of the most obvious cases of serious foul play you're likely to see, further compounds that.

[little mo]

What were you guys thinking appealing the reds? That's just Johnson being deluded and bitter about losing. You don't appeal blatant reds. You don't even appeal ones you're unsure about. He was clearly bitter about the red sending him off as in his interview he asked "have you ever seen someone booked for diving in the first 5min?" Erm sorry mate, but if it's a dive, it doesn't matter when it happened. That, to me, shows that the rules don't matter much to GJ and emotion took over. And the fact he's arguing against 2 of the most obvious cases of serious foul play you're likely to see, further compounds that.

Jog off.

[everyman]

Here we go RCS, I will do the one involving JW first. I'ts the 2006-07 season and Smith has dropped out of the league and is playing for Weymouth who are paying silly money. In January 2007 all the players are told the money has dried up and they are free to find new clubs even though he still had 125k of contract in place.
So he contacted five football league clubs,Hereford (he was still living there at the time) Bournemouth,Macclesfield, Cheltenham and Peterborough. He met JW first who brought PB with him. But he then said that JW admitted he had not actually seen him play but Keith Downing had and his secretary(presumably PG) had been impressed with the two goals he scored against FGR.
PB then asked him the big question. What was he earning? I will quote what he says in the book now.
"I did what everyone does in this situation and told a little white lie. I said I was due a 5k signing on fee and was on a basic of £1,100 a week.
They asked me if I could give them five minutes in private and,when I returned to the table,i got a lovely surprise. They said the club was willing to offer me a three and a half year contract with a 20k signing on fee, plus £1,200 a week for the rest of the season rising to 1,300 then1,400 then 1,500. There were also some bonuses included,such as goal bonuses and £5,000 for every year the club stayed in League One.
I managed to supress a smile somehow and told them I would have to think about it. When I got back to my car I just laughed to myself. I was expecting Cheltenham to match my Weymouth contract at best,not blow it out of the water."
Weymouth then said they wanted a transfer fee,he pointed out that he was giving up a 125k contract that they could not pay anyway. But Chelt offered 20k which was accepted. In the end he went to Hereford.
All these bonuses and wages and length of contract to a player who admits he was a "Journeyman"by a manager who had not even seen him play. Phew we had a lucky escape me thinks.
I will tell you about the Martin Allen meeting later,but it sums up perfectly why he is known as Mad Dog.

Which shows it`s not just our players who aren`t streetwise,i would love to get a clever accountant to research all our recent deals.

[Red Duke]

Can we conclude that Hereford offered more than the Robins?

[little mo]

Can we conclude that Hereford offered more than the Robins?

They offered £1,100 a week plus 20k signing on fee 5k if they got promoted, raise his wages to £1,400 if promoted, £100 a goal and £100 appearance money. It was a two and half year contract. He accepted this one because he lived near Hereford and had worked with Graham Turner before.