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 Post subject: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 15:19 
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http://robinstrust.org/robins-trust-res ... omplaints/


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 16:27 
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Well done *thumbs up*


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 16:45 
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Was the £5 admin charge the only change? Only asking as nothing else came across as “bungled” but would be interested to know what other hard work by MT and the Trust was undone.

(Thankfully the FED is now independent and not also the Finance Director. I wonder what CG felt about the admin fee.)


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 16:55 
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Ouch - clanger dropped well and truly. The early bird prices are expensive anyway - especially after two dire seasons. Have they ventured a look at Accrington Stanley's pricing yet? Perhaps they could copy those and its achievements?


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 17:49 
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theidlerich wrote:
Ouch - clanger dropped well and truly. The early bird prices are expensive anyway - especially after two dire seasons. Have they ventured a look at Accrington Stanley's pricing yet? Perhaps they could copy those and its achievements?


No chance of that when fans are calling for GJ's head after 2 seasons of building, when Accrington have been building for several seasons. The fans want everything now, and for less money.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 18:14 
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theidlerich wrote:
Ouch - clanger dropped well and truly. The early bird prices are expensive anyway - especially after two dire seasons. Have they ventured a look at Accrington Stanley's pricing yet? Perhaps they could copy those and its achievements?


I still like the idea that part of the price should be results dependent. In the Colin Farmer £300 quid up front. When ten wins achieved club automatically takes another £50, then a further £50 if fifteen wins achieved.

If fewer than ten wins the club refunds £25 off the next season’s renewal and if fewer than five wins it refunds £50 off the next renewal.

So if served up a good season of home games fans in the CF pay £400 and if it is really dire then they pay £300 and the following season they pay just £250.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 18:19 
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Sounds a nightmare to administer and budget for the year...


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 18:22 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa


I’m not going to highlight you’re excellent suggestion re season tickets, but, ffs if you can’t get it right over charging everyone an additional fiver how the f can you expect them to get their heads round something as complicated as your suggestion?


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 18:31 
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asl wrote:
Sounds a nightmare to administer and budget for the year...


Budget for £300. Incentive for manager to get ten wins before January to get more budget. Anything more is a bonus.

Technology is there for administration to be a piece of pizz. Even ten years ago at Fulham my plastic membership card and online account had more functionality than what I described.

And for those lacking digital skills or connectivity, the Club could run a few sessions for people to come along and get set up. Set it up as a community project to provide digital skills training and you will be able to get funding for it easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 18:44 
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swellingsdownbelow wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa


I’m not going to highlight you’re excellent suggestion re season tickets, but, ffs if you can’t get it right over charging everyone an additional fiver how the f can you expect them to get their heads round something as complicated as your suggestion?


Probably require partnership with a tech start-up. Constant stream starting-up all the time making things like this for all sorts of public service providers and charities.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 19:27 
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Over here they charge you for PSL's (Personal Seat Licence) that entitles the holder to the right to buy season tickets for a certain seat in a stadium. This holder can sell the seat license to someone else if they no longer wish to purchase season tickets.
In other words, 5, 10, 12k will give you the licence (one time fee) for the opportunity to buy a season ticket which is extra.
I think PSL's are coming in on Spurs new stadium..


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 19:40 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
swellingsdownbelow wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa


I’m not going to highlight you’re excellent suggestion re season tickets, but, ffs if you can’t get it right over charging everyone an additional fiver how the f can you expect them to get their heads round something as complicated as your suggestion?


Probably require partnership with a tech start-up. Constant stream starting-up all the time making things like this for all sorts of public service providers and charities.


Actually, sounds the perfect kind of project for a college group, looking to put thrit digital expertise into practice. Also a local company specialises in the digital payment card sector. So a very sound idea


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018, 22:41 
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Apologies if I've missed this but what exactly is the £5 for and does it apply per season ticket? Ok it's only £5 when I'm paying £385 for my ticket and £145 for my daughters but it's more the principle with saying price freeze and also are we now employing Ticketmaster to sell tickets rather than employees in the ticket office? If not then why exactly are we paying this? 1000 season tickets equals £5,000 so that's a significant sum. All feels a little underhand after another poor season of home games.
Is the admin fee purely to cover the printing of tickets etc, if so what's changed from previous years and do other clubs also charge similar fees? If as mentioned its because of recent legislation changes is the club trying to make up the shortfall from not being able to charge extra for credit card payments?
Keep us posted Leo.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 07:01 
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It seems the club have responded to the recently enforced Payment Services Regulation from U.K. government in alignment with European Union's second Payment Services Directive (PSD2).

This legislation essentially outlaws credit card fees. As credit card fees were lucrative for many companies to avoid losing out they now charge an ‘admin fee’ to all customers even those who pay the restaurant in cash.

JustEat made the news for the same reason as card fees were 13% of their income and they started charging everybody a fee to make sure they didn’t lose out:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -customers

Given that CTFC charge the admin fee now no matter how you pay (ie even if you pay cash) I suspect they are doing something similar, or a third party the club use which we don’t know about, are.

Either way, or moot to an extent. All it does is show how the business model and pricing strategy aren’t compatible with the marketing campaign. For whatever reason the Club have decided they need to charge £390 for an early bird in the Colin Farmer (cost of wages, increase budget, inflated costs of operations, cost of printing or ordering tickets etc) BUT given the season we have had they wanted to freeze prices.

I would have preferred an honest statement that “despite the poor home form we have had to increase prices by £5. In the Colin Farmer this is only a 1.3% increase, so a actually less than inflation and less than the increase in our costs. This small rise is needed to cover the rising costs of running a football club without compromising Gary’s budget to build a competitive squad”.

Instead, marketing that prices have froze when they haven’t is just plain lying in my view (what is new in the world of marketing eh?) and and will create more resentment amongst customers than a small advertised rise would have done. But you can’t put ‘small rise’ on a poster can you.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 13:17 
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Club statement: https://www.ctfc.com/news/2018/april/st ... dmin-fees/


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 13:39 
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They just rehashed my above post!!


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 13:53 
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Bit rich of them to include cup ticket priority as a benefit given our recent FA Cup history.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 14:03 
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Si Robin wrote:
Bit rich of them to include cup ticket priority as a benefit given our recent FA Cup history.


And given the comments about increased operation costs why not just increase prices by a fiver and not mention price freeze or admin charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 14:50 
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If the business people on the Boards made similar contadictictory pricing statements in their own business practices it would not go down well. This is a PR shambles. Does the surcharge apply for cash payments?
The Price Freeze marketing tagged should be dropped. The cash sum to Club claims it will be short of has been made up by unbudgeted income from this season.We could try cutting down on plastic drinking bottles for the players to chuck about at matches if we are that hard up. To introduce this £5 charge is mealy mouthed micky taking and the recent press release is patronising .


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 15:07 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
It seems the club have responded to the recently enforced Payment Services Regulation from U.K. government in alignment with European Union's second Payment Services Directive (PSD2).

This legislation essentially outlaws credit card fees. As credit card fees were lucrative for many companies to avoid losing out they now charge an ‘admin fee’ to all customers even those who pay the restaurant in cash.

JustEat made the news for the same reason as card fees were 13% of their income and they started charging everybody a fee to make sure they didn’t lose out:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -customers

Given that CTFC charge the admin fee now no matter how you pay (ie even if you pay cash) I suspect they are doing something similar, or a third party the club use which we don’t know about, are.

Either way, or moot to an extent. All it does is show how the business model and pricing strategy aren’t compatible with the marketing campaign. For whatever reason the Club have decided they need to charge £390 for an early bird in the Colin Farmer (cost of wages, increase budget, inflated costs of operations, cost of printing or ordering tickets etc) BUT given the season we have had they wanted to freeze prices.

I would have preferred an honest statement that “despite the poor home form we have had to increase prices by £5. In the Colin Farmer this is only a 1.3% increase, so a actually less than inflation and less than the increase in our costs. This small rise is needed to cover the rising costs of running a football club without compromising Gary’s budget to build a competitive squad”.

Instead, marketing that prices have froze when they haven’t is just plain lying in my view (what is new in the world of marketing eh?) and and will create more resentment amongst customers than a small advertised rise would have done. But you can’t put ‘small rise’ on a poster can you.


Ahh the EU.


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 Post subject: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 15:09 
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Shade wrote:


So if you pay cash you’re not subjected to this hidden charge...Credit or debit transactions only?


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 15:24 
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Malabus wrote:
Shade wrote:


So if you pay cash you’re not subjected to this hidden charge...Credit or debit transactions only?


Complete opposite. They used to charge for card transactions only but the new regulations has stopped that (as deemed companies were milking it and ripping off customers). So, in order to make it equal for all customers, rather than remove payment fees from customers who pay by card they have added them to all customers. So you have to pay the fee even if you pay by cash.

Summary:
- card paying customers used to be hit with charges
- law passed saying retailers couldn’t discriminate against card users
- so retailers respond by hitting all customers with charges
- customers annoyed and wonder why the cost of running a business isn’t just included in the upfront price of products.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 15:26 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Malabus wrote:
Shade wrote:


So if you pay cash you’re not subjected to this hidden charge...Credit or debit transactions only?


Complete opposite. They used to charge for card transactions only but the new regulations has stopped that (as deemed companies were milking it and ripping off customers). So, in order to make it equal for all customers, rather than remove payment fees from customers who pay by card they have added them to all customers. So you have to pay the fee even if you pay by cash.

Summary:
- card paying customers used to be hit with charges
- law passed saying retailers couldn’t discriminate against card users
- so retailers respond by hitting all customers with charges
- customers annoyed and wonder why the cost of running a business isn’t just included in the upfront price of products.



Thanks for the explanation. Will look further into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 15:28 
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My Guardian link to the JustEat story explains it well.

I personally don’t see the problem with the charge, just the way it is marketed.

JustEat provide a service which needs to be paid for either by the restaurants or me. I am the one using the service and I don’t want loca restaurants to lose out so happy to pay JustEat 50p for their work.

Different with CTFC. Whatever cost the £5 fee is covering should be factored into the price of the season ticket product. I would not bat an eyelid if the price of a Colin Farmer seat went up £5. The problem is advertising the price has stayed the same an then adding on £5.

Plus the £5 is a regressive charge. £5 is a bigger proportion of a C&G season ticket than it is a Colin Farmer ticket. Would have been fairer to increase all season tickets by the same percentage. So a concession in the C&G goes up 50p or £1 and adult CF season ticket by £10 or whatever.

As it is, CF adult fans are only paying a 1.3% charge but an Under 18 on the terrace is paying a 5% charge. This seems wrong.


Last edited by RegencyCheltenhamSpa on 19 Apr 2018, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 15:53 
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as this applies to ST thats understood

The club charges an additional £2 for processing a match ticket on line

see ' Purchases are subject to £2 per order processing fee' copied from ticket purchase on OS
So does that mean there should be a £2 fee for buying at the turnstyle

so its either £21 or £23 for a ticket in the CF stand both cant be right

I cannot wait to see what happens over GDPR on 25th May
RNF and tust sites will also be subject perhaps but they are not selling anything any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 16:02 
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andgarod wrote:
as this applies to ST thats understood

The club charges an additional £2 for processing a match ticket on line

see ' Purchases are subject to £2 per order processing fee' copied from ticket purchase on OS
So does that mean there should be a £2 fee for buying at the turnstyle

so its either £21 or £23 for a ticket in the CF stand both cant be right

I cannot wait to see what happens over GDPR on 25th May
RNF and tust sites will also be subject perhaps but they are not selling anything any thoughts?


Online purchase does use a third party supplier who need to be paid. Now whether that should be paid by customers on a per ticket basis, or a fixed annual fee out of general club budget is a different question.

Again the online fee is not fair. £2 fee is akin to 9.5% fee on an adult Colin Farmer ticket but 40% on an Under 18 terrace ticket. Obviously the argument is the customer is purely paying £2 to the online company for the service, the same way I pay 50p to use JustEat whether I order £10 of food or £100, so it is different from the season ticket admin fee in that regard. BUT, the counter argument is JustEat is 50p per order not per unit. I could order 1 curry or 10 curries and it is 50p. With CTFC 1 ticket is £2 and 10 tickets would be a £20 charge.

Glitnir (the online company) doesn’t have great functionality and their web design looks like 90s. I am sure the club could get a better supplier and a better deal than charging everyone £2 per ticket.

Edit: Glitnir website and products in the US look great. UK website and CTFC functionality is pants.


Last edited by RegencyCheltenhamSpa on 19 Apr 2018, 16:14, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 16:12 
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Seems like an awful lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over a fecking £5; there are pubs in Cheltenham who charge that for a pint.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 16:25 
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kora wrote:
Seems like an awful lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over a fecking £5; there are pubs in Cheltenham who charge that for a pint.


Yes but they don’t write £2.50 on the price list do they.

That is the issue. Would be no wailing if they just said a CF season was £390 up front rather than trying to pretend it is £385 as it looks nicer on a poster.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 17:07 
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I sometimes wonder the ineptness of business people. Separating out of costs like this an absolute nonsense.

I run an online business and offer "free" UK Delivery.

Nothing irritates people more as when they get to a checkout there an extra charge for delivery. People respond positively to the word free and you get more business because of it.

I don't charge anything whether they use credit/debit, bank transfers or PayPal.

I simply build these costs into my selling price. As long as i make money when paid by the most expensive method (PayPal) then if a customer uses one of the other ones, I make more profit.

Whoever is doing the marketing, needs to think again.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 17:42 
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Red Duke you’ve hit the nail on the head....their marketing has not even thought about it in the first place.......very amateurish........things were looking up when we got fan elected members on the board.......but it all goes amiss when the so called professionals get to do their bit......

I called in at the Ticket Office last Saturday for a Season Ticket application form......there were none, only renewal forms....so, another faux pas......money back in wallet and after the performance against FGR it can stay in the wallet...


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 17:49 
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Red Duke and Regency have make good points. I am amazed the Board members who made this decision do not have the same common sense. When I first starting taking cards in my business in the eighties the merchant agreement did not allow the business to pass on charges to the consumer and could cancel your agreement if you did. This seemed good practice.I'm not sure when it all changed but it all seems to have become very muddled since. Like a lot of business it seems designed to treat people like fools.


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 18:16 
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swellingsdownbelow wrote:
Red Duke you’ve hit the nail on the head....their marketing has not even thought about it in the first place.......very amateurish........things were looking up when we got fan elected members on the board.......but it all goes amiss when the so called professionals get to do their bit......

I called in at the Ticket Office last Saturday for a Season Ticket application form......there were none, only renewal forms....so, another faux pas......money back in wallet and after the performance against FGR it can stay in the wallet...


That is unbelievable. Couldn't they just print one out there and then?


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 18:31 
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Red Duke wrote:
swellingsdownbelow wrote:
Red Duke you’ve hit the nail on the head....their marketing has not even thought about it in the first place.......very amateurish........things were looking up when we got fan elected members on the board.......but it all goes amiss when the so called professionals get to do their bit......

I called in at the Ticket Office last Saturday for a Season Ticket application form......there were none, only renewal forms....so, another faux pas......money back in wallet and after the performance against FGR it can stay in the wallet...


That is unbelievable. Couldn't they just print one out there and then?


Or just do it on the computer. Surely paper form is not essential or are we saying that when one buys a season ticket by phone (which I have) the staff member in the office writes all your details on a form?


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 19:03 
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is anyone really surprised at this utter utter shambles


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 Post subject: Re: Trust Statement on Season Ticket Pricing
 Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018, 20:47 
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I've never known a football club to make so many mistakes on and off the pitch.


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