Away fans today against GJ...

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Forester_Robin
Posts: 5
Joined: 08 Apr 2018, 11:57
Do fans really want to get rid of GJ?
The negativity coming from the away end today was unbelievable.
GJ won us the Conference first time of asking and has consolidated us in the football league.
I’ll admit the football has been poor at time this season and we must improve next season.
People have short memories and need to be careful what they wish for.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Muppets.
andgarod
Posts: 1315
Joined: 19 May 2015, 18:31
so out of 138 ish fans we have a group of 20 or 30 who want GJ out

A few were at the last forum and asked why they should buy a season ticket

It is all very well wanting GJ out but have they any alternatives
Let them name who they want in
Having named him can they explain how he or she are going to bring in better than we have
The system has changed so we now have 5 or 6 loanees
We cannot afford to pay 5 or 6 players during the summer so go for loans as they are cheaper

No one not even Robin ( unless hes a board member ) actually knows what goes on behind the doors

Going back to the ST question its is the maths
23 games x entrance fee - games that you will not attend v 23 matches ( or the number attended) x entrance money
If they decide to pick and choose it will cost them more if the team does well and they turn up every week

So the answer comes back to the team doing well and also checks on the ages declared for those buying tickets
£5 for a student / game

Many of those singing we want GJ out dont have memories long enough to remember 22 years ago
They have been on the way up in general
Perhaps they dream of the championship the wat we dreamed of FL games

So name your replacement - not that its going to happen
Robin
Posts: 15948
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
I am not happy with this season, we have under achieved, there have been a select few who have been poor too often (Flatt, Moore, Grimes etc.) and some of the results have been totally unacceptable but I do not want a change of manager right now. There absolutely must be a big improvement next season, top half minimum if we are to renew GJ.

Also the small vocal group who want GJ out are all very young, I'd guess late teens/early twenties, a by-product of modern football perhaps?
asl
Posts: 6668
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:37
Wenger's available? ;)

I don't believe in 'unacceptable results' - but there has definitely been a number of unacceptable *performances* from the team. On top of that, as Robin says, some individuals are regularly showing that they're simply not good enough (and that definitely includes Taylor-Moore in every match I've seen.) That doesn't necessarily make their performances 'unacceptable' - but it does throw a question mark about their inclusion in the team. However, we operate with finite resources and, if a loan deal turns out not to be successful, we may have ended up with no choice but to persevere.

My choice of manager remains Gary Johnson.

(Unless Arsène actually *is* willing to have a go, of course...)
everyman
Posts: 2034
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 09:11
andgarod wrote:so out of 138 ish fans we have a group of 20 or 30 who want GJ out

A few were at the last forum and asked why they should buy a season ticket

It is all very well wanting GJ out but have they any alternatives
Let them name who they want in
Having named him can they explain how he or she are going to bring in better than we have
The system has changed so we now have 5 or 6 loanees
We cannot afford to pay 5 or 6 players during the summer so go for loans as they are cheaper

No one not even Robin ( unless hes a board member ) actually knows what goes on behind the doors

Going back to the ST question its is the maths
23 games x entrance fee - games that you will not attend v 23 matches ( or the number attended) x entrance money
If they decide to pick and choose it will cost them more if the team does well and they turn up every week

So the answer comes back to the team doing well and also checks on the ages declared for those buying tickets
£5 for a student / game

Many of those singing we want GJ out dont have memories long enough to remember 22 years ago
They have been on the way up in general
Perhaps they dream of the championship the wat we dreamed of FL games

So name your replacement - not that its going to happen
When did any group of fans have the knowledge or experience to select a manager ?
But they can voice their dissatisfaction when a manager is constantly being out thought by another and can`t organise his players to hold onto a lead.If the players are not able to play to the managers instructions,then he must have signed the wrong ones.
We have lost 4 of our last 5 games it`s normal that many fans will not be happy with that.
hEaLeR
Posts: 482
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:11
Just for clarity, the away fans sung and supported the team non-stop for practically the whole of the game.

Managers are judged by lots of things not only results. Frustrations have built over the season to various degrees. Some are over the top and some are completely justified.

If you don’t have an opinion on tactics, substituions, loan players, youth opportunities etc....then the manager can do what he wants and everyone should clap.

All managers have good and bad points, ours is no expection to that. Performances have been patchy since we’ve had nothing to play for but several players really don’t look happy on the pitch and body language is very telling.
everyman
Posts: 2034
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 09:11
hEaLeR wrote:Just for clarity, the away fans sung and supported the team non-stop for practically the whole of the game.

Managers are judged by lots of things not only results. Frustrations have built over the season to various degrees. Some are over the top and some are completely justified.

If you don’t have an opinion on tactics, substituions, loan players, youth opportunities etc....then the manager can do what he wants and everyone should clap.

All managers have good and bad points, ours is no expection to that. Performances have been patchy since we’ve had nothing to play for but several players really don’t look happy on the pitch and body language is very telling.
The team has been unsettled all season,it`s very difficult when personnel and tactics are constantly changing.Footballers often have fragile temperaments and need their coach to have faith in them rather than keep demoralising them.
Robin
Posts: 15948
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
I agree and can't help but feel it all goes back to last summer (for the second year in a row). We started the season with a thread bare squad and they didn't have time to gel as a team, this absolutely needs to be addressed this summer with quick recruitment and focus on healing any rifts between fans and the club.
drgm
Posts: 323
Joined: 31 Jul 2014, 20:15
andgarod wrote:so out of 138 ish fans we have a group of 20 or 30 who want GJ out

A few were at the last forum and asked why they should buy a season ticket

It is all very well wanting GJ out but have they any alternatives
Let them name who they want in
Having named him can they explain how he or she are going to bring in better than we have
The system has changed so we now have 5 or 6 loanees
We cannot afford to pay 5 or 6 players during the summer so go for loans as they are cheaper

No one not even Robin ( unless hes a board member ) actually knows what goes on behind the doors

Going back to the ST question its is the maths
23 games x entrance fee - games that you will not attend v 23 matches ( or the number attended) x entrance money
If they decide to pick and choose it will cost them more if the team does well and they turn up every week

So the answer comes back to the team doing well and also checks on the ages declared for those buying tickets
£5 for a student / game

Many of those singing we want GJ out dont have memories long enough to remember 22 years ago
They have been on the way up in general
Perhaps they dream of the championship the wat we dreamed of FL games

So name your replacement - not that its going to happen
We have 1 more point than last season with two games to go. Some would say that's progress others
might call it stagnation and drift.
You ask for names. Here's one: Grant McCann. Young, hungry and with a point to prove.
Robin
Posts: 15948
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
Since when does being young make someone good for a managerial appointment? Most young managers are hungry and the majority fail and don't manage more than two professional jobs. Given a choice I would far rather someone who has a track record of success in the lower leagues as they will likely have good contacts.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
By the way I am not saying Grant would be a bad appointment only that there is clearly a lot of sentiment in people proposing him as a potential successor to GJ.

Ultimately when GJ leaves we need to be looking for someone on the way up i.e. done very well at smaller clubs (like the Cowleys as an example) or someone with success on their CV (Like GJ, Ward etc.). The worst case is we give it to a former player or member of the coaching staff like Milton/Downes.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Robin wrote:By the way I am not saying Grant would be a bad appointment only that there is clearly a lot of sentiment in people proposing him as a potential successor to GJ.

Ultimately when GJ leaves we need to be looking for someone on the way up i.e. done very well at smaller clubs (like the Cowleys as an example) or someone with success on their CV (Like GJ, Ward etc.). The worst case is we give it to a former player or member of the coaching staff like Milton/Downes.
Luke Garrard.
CS85
Posts: 1133
Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 10:04
I dont want him gone but can see why some do,only paul buckle has a worse PPG ratio than GJ (FL games only).
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
Surely it's comparable with Yates first two seasons in charge before the investment?
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Robin wrote:Surely it's comparable with Yates first two seasons in charge before the investment?
Could argue more consistent than Yates. Fourth on Boxing Day to almost relegation was a dismal run. Many clubs would have sacked the manager. We didn’t and we know what happened next!
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longmover
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Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 18:55
The damage has been done even a win against Coventry wont repair anything and can see FGR finishing above us as well. If GJ does stay then he needs his best summer at CTFC and if next season starts poorly then its going to get very nasty(er) very quickly. Some big decision need to be made.
CTFC03
Posts: 1451
Joined: 01 Jun 2013, 20:32
I think the club needs freshening up badly, I do like GJ but he's not been very good overall since we've been back in the league, I think he's lost his edge, that said and I think it was pointed out on here a couple of weeks back we would probably be almost guaranteed to stay up with him in charge, that I can see but however if you end up consistently finishing in the bottom 6/7 you end up being dragged into the relegation battle and you run the risk of being relegated and it can happen to anybody, it happened here, Bristol Rovers and it's happened at Luton and some teams go down and never come back. Stockport stands out.

We have got a great nucleus here (Flinders, Boyle, Nigel & Eisa (ok he will probably go but just using him for arguments sake) and we need to try and build a team around them, easier said than done of course but we need to get it right in the summer, we need 2 robust centre backs to go along with Boyle, in general we need a great defence which we've not had for 2 years now, it's been embarrassing watching Grimes and to a much lesser extent as he has improved a bit Cranston. The most important thing now is we get in players who are going to do a job on a consistent basis as we have had too many games again this season where we simply haven't turned up and release the deadwood (or what the mgmt consider deadwood).

We also need to cut down the amount of loan players we take on, I understand it's cheaper but it's not effective on the pitch, it's shown for 2 years now, if there is a player out there who we know is something special ( Ilias for example) then yes get him in if it's going to improve us but we need more permanent players and we need permanent players in key positions and those players need to be the type of players that can get the fans in, motivate people to renew their ST's because atm I can see the club struggling because we haven't performed again especially at home.
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Anteros
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I think we have good nucleus of a side and he surely knows who isn't good for next season. I reckon he will sign 4/5 players in the summer and we will finish top 10 next season.
vickeryc
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Joined: 30 May 2012, 07:18
Location: Cirencester
I agree with much of what's been said. However, if the manager has less money made available for players than other clubs, then that is hardly his fault. Generally, many of the players he has brought in (including loans) have been a success - Eisa (obviously), Winchester, Ilias, Morrell, Boyle, Flinders, Atangana, Forster, Sellars, Dawson - but others less so to varying degrees. That is inevitable when the club is - relatively speaking - run on a shoestring. We clearly have a good core group of players on which to build.

I know some will point to Accrington (phenomenal success and huge congratulations to them), but we are up against many teams who are bigger than we could ever be - Coventry, Luton, Notts County, and even Swindon. Perspective is required. We have competed effectively against most teams in this league, including the ones at the top, but clearly we have been inconsistent.

It is ridiculous as well as naive to clamour for GJ's head, especially considering that he saved the club from ruin in his first full season. The club has progressed since regaining FL status - albeit slower than we'd all like - despite limited resources for recruitment. It should be remembered that our gates are 17th in league 2 (and we don't have an owner throwing money around), while we stand 16th in the table. I know that's not setting the world on fire, but in the circumstances it's far from disastrous. The club is moving forward and, with a few decent signings to add to a really promising core squad, there are real grounds for optimism.

It's time people got off GJ's back and give both him and the team the support they deserve.
Johnsons Red Army
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vickeryc wrote:I agree with much of what's been said. However, if the manager has less money made available for players than other clubs, then that is hardly his fault. Generally, many of the players he has brought in (including loans) have been a success - Eisa (obviously), Winchester, Ilias, Morrell, Boyle, Flinders, Atangana, Forster, Sellars, Dawson - but others less so to varying degrees. That is inevitable when the club is - relatively speaking - run on a shoestring. We clearly have a good core group of players on which to build.

I know some will point to Accrington (phenomenal success and huge congratulations to them), but we are up against many teams who are bigger than we could ever be - Coventry, Luton, Notts County, and even Swindon. Perspective is required. We have competed effectively against most teams in this league, including the ones at the top, but clearly we have been inconsistent.

It is ridiculous as well as naive to clamour for GJ's head, especially considering that he saved the club from ruin in his first full season. The club has progressed since regaining FL status - albeit slower than we'd all like - despite limited resources for recruitment. It should be remembered that our gates are 17th in league 2 (and we don't have an owner throwing money around), while we stand 16th in the table. I know that's not setting the world on fire, but in the circumstances it's far from disastrous. The club is moving forward and, with a few decent signings to add to a really promising core squad, there are real grounds for optimism.

It's time people got off GJ's back and give both him and the team the support they deserve.
Well said!
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longmover
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Its the baffling team selections, dubious tactics and general appalling home performances that fans have the issue with, none of this greatly affected by money just suspect managment
Robin
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Anteros wrote:I think we have good nucleus of a side and he surely knows who isn't good for next season. I reckon he will sign 4/5 players in the summer and we will finish top 10 next season.
I suspect we will need more than 4-5 signings, we have 11 under contract and will need a squad of 24-25. 7 loans will be leaving for starters although I hope we can sign Ilias and Morrel the rest haven't shown they are good enough to warrant it. On top of that it's likely Holman and Wright will go and pretty much everyone wants to see the back of Grimes.

Therefore I reckon we are looking at 7-8 new faces come the summer including 3-4 on loan.
nitram82
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I was at the game yesterday and thought it was an enjoyable watch considering there was nothing for either team to play for in the grand scheme of things and the support we gave was fantastic. My little boy hasn't stopped singing the Atangana song all day.

For the last ten minutes anti Gary Johnson songs surfaced which wasn't nice in my opinion. I feel that Gary's time has been successfull considering the total lack of budget. I think the true test of his abilities, should he stay on, will be when he gets to invest in the squad following the billions of pounds we will get for Mo. If performances and results don't pick up after that then the criticism would be more justified, but at the moment I don't feel it's fair to criticise him too much.
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Anteros
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nitram82 wrote:I was at the game yesterday and thought it was an enjoyable watch considering there was nothing for either team to play for in the grand scheme of things and the support we gave was fantastic. My little boy hasn't stopped singing the Atangana song all day.

For the last ten minutes anti Gary Johnson songs surfaced which wasn't nice in my opinion. I feel that Gary's time has been successfull considering the total lack of budget. I think the true test of his abilities, should he stay on, will be when he gets to invest in the squad following the billions of pounds we will get for Mo. If performances and results don't pick up after that then the criticism would be more justified, but at the moment I don't feel it's fair to criticise him too much.
Totally agree. That was the first time I heard the Atangana song and at first i thought it was cringe but it is a very catchy song! And now I can't get it out of my head !
JasonFailor
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Joined: 07 Dec 2014, 17:16
I hope we keep GJ, especially as there are no better alternatives. However, I do understand (and share) the frustration with him recently. I missed the last game but have been to a lot of games recently (including the humiliating loss to FGR) and his tactics do make you feel like pulling your hair out sometimes. Playing 4-5-1 and hoofing long balls up to little Mo Eisa (who often has to battle strong and tall CBs) is just plain stupid and illogical and you can feel the fans turning against GJ after Eisa gets beaten in an aerial challenge for the fifth/sixth time that half! Hopefully GJ will come up with a way to play to Eisa's (or similar players, if he leaves) strengths or, alternatively, play with a target man as the main striker as he will be more compatible with a tactic which plays long balls up to the front man. I hope GJ does sort out these basic tactical errors, otherwise it'll be harder and harder to support him in the future.
vickeryc
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Location: Cirencester
longmover wrote:Its the baffling team selections, dubious tactics and general appalling home performances that fans have the issue with, none of this greatly affected by money just suspect managment
It is hard to argue against these points. However, other factors often come into the mix which fans, including me, may not always appreciate. I get as frustrated as anyone with our performances at times and sense that we get bullied out of games too often. I also feel we are a better footballing side than most and become baffled when we resort to hoofing the ball in the air against taller opposition. Our inability to defend set pieces is a worry. And so on... How much of all this is down to the players, the manager or other factors/ circumstances is difficult to say. Probably a mixture of all of them.

Like most fans, I often think I know the game better than the manager, yet clearly I don't. As I said in my previous post, GJ has done enormous good for this club and he should have earned the respect of supporters even though, as a fellow human being, he makes mistakes and misjudgements from time to time. His recruitment overall, within a very limited budget, has been excellent and he has moved the club forward from a very low point. I doubt there is a better manager around with his experience that the club could afford and I, for one, feel he is the right man for job.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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JasonFailor wrote:I hope we keep GJ, especially as there are no better alternatives. However, I do understand (and share) the frustration with him recently. I missed the last game but have been to a lot of games recently (including the humiliating loss to FGR) and his tactics do make you feel like pulling your hair out sometimes. Playing 4-5-1 and hoofing long balls up to little Mo Eisa (who often has to battle strong and tall CBs) is just plain stupid and illogical and you can feel the fans turning against GJ after Eisa gets beaten in an aerial challenge for the fifth/sixth time that half! Hopefully GJ will come up with a way to play to Eisa's (or similar players, if he leaves) strengths or, alternatively, play with a target man as the main striker as he will be more compatible with a tactic which plays long balls up to the front man. I hope GJ does sort out these basic tactical errors, otherwise it'll be harder and harder to support him in the future.
I think part of it is that our intended target man never materialised. Wright just wasn’t up to L2 pace and Graham didn’t live up to expectations. When signing a player who had scored some important goals in the Scottish Cup latter stages and to get promoted to the SPL you would hope they can compete at L2 level but he never got going (unless Scottish football is worse than we thought). Personally I am thinking it might be a tricky first season and we can see Graham leading the line well next season with Mo alongside him. Mo should be able to assist Graham by making space, runs and laying on tap-ins as well as the other way round.
kora
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Friends north of the border assure me if you give Graham good quality crosses he will score plenty. If we are signing real wingers, ie lots of decent crosses, he may do very well, if the plan is more of the same he may repeat this season.
Robin
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Still too early to right off Graham in my opinion, he's had a number of niggling injuries and service has been poor.
vickeryc
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I agree. Brian Graham is a natural target man and, given the right service, he would score plenty of goals and provide lots of assists. He also gets stuck in and disrupts the opposition a bit, which is an bonus. Injuries have disrupted his performances, but I remain optimistic that he can do a good job for us.
JasonFailor
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Joined: 07 Dec 2014, 17:16
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote: I think part of it is that our intended target man never materialised. Wright just wasn’t up to L2 pace and Graham didn’t live up to expectations. When signing a player who had scored some important goals in the Scottish Cup latter stages and to get promoted to the SPL you would hope they can compete at L2 level but he never got going (unless Scottish football is worse than we thought).
The issue for me is that, considering things weren't working with Graham, why hasn't GJ changed tactics? Playing like you have a target man (i.e. hoofball) when you have a striker with a slight frame like Eisa just seems silly.
Personally I am thinking it might be a tricky first season and we can see Graham leading the line well next season with Mo alongside him. Mo should be able to assist Graham by making space, runs and laying on tap-ins as well as the other way round.
I hope you're right about Graham. I have heard good reports from Scotland and his strike record for Raith looks really good so there's definitely potential there.
everyman
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JasonFailor wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote: I think part of it is that our intended target man never materialised. Wright just wasn’t up to L2 pace and Graham didn’t live up to expectations. When signing a player who had scored some important goals in the Scottish Cup latter stages and to get promoted to the SPL you would hope they can compete at L2 level but he never got going (unless Scottish football is worse than we thought).
The issue for me is that, considering things weren't working with Graham, why hasn't GJ changed tactics? Playing like you have a target man (i.e. hoofball) when you have a striker with a slight frame like Eisa just seems silly.
Personally I am thinking it might be a tricky first season and we can see Graham leading the line well next season with Mo alongside him. Mo should be able to assist Graham by making space, runs and laying on tap-ins as well as the other way round.
I hope you're right about Graham. I have heard good reports from Scotland and his strike record for Raith looks really good so there's definitely potential there.
Brian Graham had them " Dancing in the streets of Raith " ???
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Shade
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I'm more than prepared to stick with GJ for at least another season. The third season in League Two is the equivalent of the third day at a golf tournament: moving day/season.
Forester_Robin
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Anteros wrote:
nitram82 wrote:I was at the game yesterday and thought it was an enjoyable watch considering there was nothing for either team to play for in the grand scheme of things and the support we gave was fantastic. My little boy hasn't stopped singing the Atangana song all day.

For the last ten minutes anti Gary Johnson songs surfaced which wasn't nice in my opinion. I feel that Gary's time has been successfull considering the total lack of budget. I think the true test of his abilities, should he stay on, will be when he gets to invest in the squad following the billions of pounds we will get for Mo. If performances and results don't pick up after that then the criticism would be more justified, but at the moment I don't feel it's fair to criticise him too much.
Totally agree. That was the first time I heard the Atangana song and at first i thought it was cringe but it is a very catchy song! And now I can't get it out of my head !
Proper cringe chant. Ffs :shock:
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