Some thoughts from Crewe

Talk about anything to do with Cheltenham Town, CTFC 500 Club, League 1, ex players & Managers

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Jon Palmer
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Robin
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So Winchester to FGR, such a waste of talent.
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Ihearye
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Robin wrote:So Winchester to FGR, such a waste of talent.
I would have thought gpoing to FGR would be a strange opne for Winchester, especially at his age. Surely he should be looking to go to a league 1 club not only to improve his League status, but also to put himself in teh running for international recognition? I can't see that happening if he plumps for FGR. He is way too young to be looking at a pay packet over self fulfillment. The NI team is an aging one and solid performances at L1 level would get him noticed.
I he does indeed decide that money is more important that actual progression, sadly iy says more abpout him that CTFC's offer, especially at his young age. Seems very short term, as splashing the cash at FGR hasn't improved them much as a team
Robin
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I fully agree and despite the cash we all know they will be bust within a few years as the model is totally unsustainable.
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Ihearye
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Apols for spelling touchscreen and elderly shaking hands are not a good match :)
Benny Profane
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With regards to Winchester, I'm not happy about it, but I don't blame him at all. Footballers careers are short, & one ripped muscle/shattered bone/sliced tendon away from being over very quickly. If FGR are offering a (still relatively young) player silly money, he's hardly going to turn it down due to there not being 'a long-term sustainable business model' is he? Shame, best passer of a ball we've had since Marlon (in my opinion), but has seemed to have one foot out the door since it became clear in early spring that we were going nowhere................
Red Duke
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I am disappointed if Winchester goes to FGR but I understand why.

A footballer's life at League 1 and 2 must be the one of most insecure professions going. You get a contract for maybe a year, if you are lucky you get two. Come the end of your contract, you are out of work, you have bills to pay and you are unemployed.

The rewards are great if you are lucky but at this level theyare hard to come by. So if a moneybags club, comes along, you will jump and take the money.
Robin
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I could understand in isolation but if he has the chance to go to Oxford in league one and be on decent money there surely it's a no brainer.
ctfc-fan
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So the article suggests FGR will have one of the largest budgets in L2 next year, the question is how? Clearly not through fair play turnover.
Robin
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I assume they simply increase their ecitricity sponsonship to find it but if vince must be pumping in many millions next year.
ctfc-fan
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Robin wrote:I assume they simply increase their ecitricity sponsonship to find it but if vince must be pumping in many millions next year.
But that’s not allowed. That’s what Leicester did isn’t it? Overpaid sponsorship to gain an unfair advantage.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Robin wrote:I fully agree and despite the cash we all know they will be bust within a few years as the model is totally unsustainable.
Doesn’t matter to Winchester. He collects big money for a few years and will have moved on before they go belly up.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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ctfc-fan wrote:
Robin wrote:I assume they simply increase their ecitricity sponsonship to find it but if vince must be pumping in many millions next year.
But that’s not allowed. That’s what Leicester did isn’t it? Overpaid sponsorship to gain an unfair advantage.
There will be ways to do it and loopholes to exploit.
vickeryc
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The effect that money has had on the game and the unfair way it skews everthing is a sad but inevitable reflection of the way many sports have gone, especially football. It's one of the biggest turn-offs for me and the main reason I can't get excited about the Premiership. If financial fair play rules are meant to do what it says on the tin, I've seen little evidence of it working in practice.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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vickeryc wrote:The effect that money has had on the game and the unfair way it skews everthing is a sad but inevitable reflection of the way many sports have gone, especially football. It's one of the biggest turn-offs for me and the main reason I can't get excited about the Premiership. If financial fair play rules are meant to do what it says on the tin, I've seen little evidence of it working in practice.
FFP only exists to keep dissenting voices happy but are geared towards allowing the influence of the money men to grow even more.
Artemis
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I'm more interested in the under contract pair who have been told they don't feature in next seasons plans.
Dawson, Graham??
East End Robin
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Artemis wrote:I'm more interested in the under contract pair who have been told they don't feature in next seasons plans.
Dawson, Graham??
Surely one of them has to be Graham. The other I think will be a toss up between Dawson and Forster. Struggling to think of anyone else under contract who we'd be telling to go. (Outside chance Atangana?)
horlickfanclub
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I have been saying for a few weeks Graham will be off. The other one must be Atangana ,Forster or Bower,or Dawson. There is noone else left .
Del Boy
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horlickfanclub wrote:I have been saying for a few weeks Graham will be off. The other one must be Atangana ,Forster or Bower,or Dawson. There is noone else left .
Yet I keep reading we've got the nucleus of a team capable of pushing for the play-offs. It's nonsense. If it wasn't for Eisa we would have gone down this season.

If he leaves and - as expected so does Winchester and Pell - we're in big trouble. No matter what the fees they are not easily replaced. Given the state the squad is in you cannot attract quality players and unearthing players like Eisa is one in a hundred.

Most of the players have been grossly overrated and most fans seem mesmerised by the manager's record at other clubs. His record in the league with us is appalling.
Personally I have no faith in him rebuilding this squad. I don't doubt he'll stay but I would imagine he'll be gone by Christmas with someone else coming in to try to keep us up.
East End Robin
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It won't be Bower judging by GJ's interview after the Crewe game.

I hope it's not Atangana, but he wasn't popular with the manager earlier in the year; however he has played a lot recently, played well and not struggled for fitness.

I hope Forster gets a chance, but we haven't really seen him play enough to judge his ability, and if he can't keep fit then he won't be around.

Dawson started the season well, but tailed off towards the end, has struggled for fitness throughout the season and is probably on big money considering his status when he signed. If I had to choose one it would be him, but I still think it could also be Forster.
Artemis
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Forster and Atangana must stay. Both are the imposing hard men we need. I'd say the same of Dawson and Graham too. But maybe fitness and money are the problem there. Hope they stay. Those four and Flinders are the nucleus we need, with a bit of flair welded in somewhere.
theidlerich
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Del Boy wrote:
horlickfanclub wrote:I have been saying for a few weeks Graham will be off. The other one must be Atangana ,Forster or Bower,or Dawson. There is noone else left .
Yet I keep reading we've got the nucleus of a team capable of pushing for the play-offs. It's nonsense. If it wasn't for Eisa we would have gone down this season.

If he leaves and - as expected so does Winchester and Pell - we're in big trouble. No matter what the fees they are not easily replaced. Given the state the squad is in you cannot attract quality players and unearthing players like Eisa is one in a hundred.

Most of the players have been grossly overrated and most fans seem mesmerised by the manager's record at other clubs. His record in the league with us is appalling.
Personally I have no faith in him rebuilding this squad. I don't doubt he'll stay but I would imagine he'll be gone by Christmas with someone else coming in to try to keep us up.


I must concur with Artemis on this aspect. I for one have often questioned GJ's loanees and player signings, also selection and substitutions. His record is moderate, if that. I would not be too dismayed to see him relinquish his post after what has been a poor season. Full of hope and optimism, but never realised.
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Ihearye
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The rhetoric this end of season is somewhat identical to last year.
. Must rebuild
. Need experience
. Looking at bringing in experience
. Already identified players interested in
. Talking to some.

Just hope this season something actually happens, as not much happened last summer
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:The rhetoric this end of season is somewhat identical to last year.
. Must rebuild
. Need experience
. Looking at bringing in experience
. Already identified players interested in
. Talking to some.

Just hope this season something actually happens, as not much happened last summer
Didn’t we sign about 8 players last summer?
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Ihearye
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Not too sure if you miss the point on purpose or genuinely believe that those brought in last summer, under the same auspices i.e. building a team of experience to challenge for play offs, actually fit that description.

Grimes – most probably on the way out (with a bit of luck), wish him well but he is not for L2, let alone a L2 playoff team
Forster – Still very much an unknown quantity as far as CTFC is concerned. Hopefully he can produce a season’s worth of the glimpses we got of him
Atangana – no negatives for me on this front. Obviously questions over injuries etc, but he has put in a good run of games in a losing team.
Dawson – Not L2 play off material, decent early on then faded badly.
Sellars – not yet ready for L2 playoff team, and either finds it hard to get a start in a losing team or is very often one substituted. He may improve, but who knows
MO – no need for further comment. Apart from he was bought as a development player. The result has far exceeded GJ expectations.
Graham – not good enough for a L2 playoff team. Don’t buy the ‘ he doesn’t get a run of games’ argument. He should take his chances when he gets them, but hasn’t.

So yes we did recruit in the summer. Question is, did we recruit the experience and skill level we needed for a L2 Playoff ? Given who will be left at the end of June – doubtful. Indeed Mo was the only constant from those bought.
Robin
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I would add the loans on to that list and from last summer the only success was Morrell.

I generally agree with your list of permanent signings only difference is I see Sellars as a squad player and should be judged as such, he's still young and a rough diamond that could be polished into a decent player or fade into non-league.
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Ihearye
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Robin wrote:I would add the loans on to that list and from last summer the only success was Morrell.

I generally agree with your list of permanent signings only difference is I see Sellars as a squad player and should be judged as such, he's still young and a rough diamond that could be polished into a decent player or fade into non-league.
I purposely did not include either Flinders, Moore or Morrell as coming in at start of September, I did not see them as part of the summer recruitment drive. More a case of “OK what gaps did we not fill” (albeit Flinders was a replacement of a gap we did fill). My point was mostly around the case that we are hearing the same words this May as we did last May. The difference is, this May / June / July, it needs to work. We tossed names back and forwards last summer but little came of it and we ended up with an inexperienced (on the whole), staring 11.

Fully agree with Sellars, both he and Mo were bought as development players. From what I understood at the time, so not fair to group them in the experienced grouping. The fact that Mo matured much faster than anyone expected was a much needed bonus, given our finishing position. Much like last summer, I will keep my counsel until actual contracts are signed. It is all very good, knowing the type of player you want, or indeed the actual player you want. The difference is being able to land them and land them early. Don’t believe we are in a Tottenham position where we can delay our signings until the last few days, in the confidence that they will come. Would be nice to see the basis of a squad in place by end of June.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:Not too sure if you miss the point on purpose or genuinely believe that those brought in last summer, under the same auspices i.e. building a team of experience to challenge for play offs, actually fit that description.

Grimes – most probably on the way out (with a bit of luck), wish him well but he is not for L2, let alone a L2 playoff team
Forster – Still very much an unknown quantity as far as CTFC is concerned. Hopefully he can produce a season’s worth of the glimpses we got of him
Atangana – no negatives for me on this front. Obviously questions over injuries etc, but he has put in a good run of games in a losing team.
Dawson – Not L2 play off material, decent early on then faded badly.
Sellars – not yet ready for L2 playoff team, and either finds it hard to get a start in a losing team or is very often one substituted. He may improve, but who knows
MO – no need for further comment. Apart from he was bought as a development player. The result has far exceeded GJ expectations.
Graham – not good enough for a L2 playoff team. Don’t buy the ‘ he doesn’t get a run of games’ argument. He should take his chances when he gets them, but hasn’t.

So yes we did recruit in the summer. Question is, did we recruit the experience and skill level we needed for a L2 Playoff ? Given who will be left at the end of June – doubtful. Indeed Mo was the only constant from those bought.
I am sure Stanley and Wycombe fans said the same three years ago. Rebuilding takes time.
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Ihearye
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To be honest I don’t know the player turn over in either of those two teams over the last 2 years. And if I am being honest, I don’t really care. The point and only point I was making, was that at this time last year, the words we were hearing are the same ones we are hearing now. Mo is the only one of last summer’s recruits that was an automatic starter this year (and that was a pleasant surprise all round). A replication, won’t see us challenging for promotion.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:To be honest I don’t know the player turn over in either of those two teams over the last 2 years. And if I am being honest, I don’t really care. The point and only point I was making, was that at this time last year, the words we were hearing are the same ones we are hearing now. Mo is the only one of last summer’s recruits that was an automatic starter this year (and that was a pleasant surprise all round). A replication, won’t see us challenging for promotion.
The same words yes, but from a better base than last season with fewer additions needed.

Only once a play-off squad is assembled does the process stop. Until then continual improvement each summer is needed.
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Ihearye
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Not at all sure about the ‘better base’ argument.

Goal keeper – as it turns out yes, but Flatt turned out not to be able to up his game.
Defence. - If Forster proves reliable then we are one player better off (If he is reliable). Cranston – is he being offered a contract. Even if he is, not an addition to the base.
So in the round, defence needs rebuilt as much this year as it did last year.
Midfield – the loss of Pell and Winchester can only weaken our base, so more and better additions needed.
Attack – with Mo going (even though you insist he is going nowhere). We need to completely rebuild out attack. So base is no better in that department either.

Where do you believe the better base is to be found ? Can't see it myself, we are losing 'arguably' better players than are left and releasing those that didn't make it
darreno
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I fully agree and despite the cash we all know they will be bust within a few years as the model is totally unsustainable.
Isn't their whole ethos about sustainability?
Artemis
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Yes, the irony is delicious......
theidlerich
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Out of interest does anyone know when the "released players" are out in the open, so we have a better idea of what recruitment we may expect?
[I trust it will be well before early bird deadline!!!!]
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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theidlerich wrote:Out of interest does anyone know when the "released players" are out in the open, so we have a better idea of what recruitment we may expect?
[I trust it will be well before early bird deadline!!!!]
When the window opens perhaps? Though I don’t know.

I am sure Gary and those plugged in to the comings and goings already know.
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