KLK & McCoulsky

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Nesty
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Joined: 18 Jun 2011, 09:17
Any news ??

In KLK's case why does the freedom of movement that exists within the EU not apply to footballers?
foreigners come into this "Green and Pleasant Land" in droves yet when you want to employ one they have to have "Clearance" (Clarence?"

In McCoulsky's case is he coming here or not ??
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
If KLK move is blocked, then we would have a good legal case to take action against FIFA for not allowing the freedom of movement KLK is entitled to.

Football has always had these weird rules which don’t apply in any other job. Obviously Bosman brought a legal case FIFA had no grounds to defend, and I think CTFC could as well.

KLK is born in France and a French citizen. We could hire him to start in my office tomorrow and FIFA must allow CTFC to do the same.
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Shade
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I was just looking into it and saw that players coming from abroad can't play in public friendlies without written permission from their former club, so there must be contact between the clubs, so God knows what's taking so long. Just a few lines on a form to fill in and fax back.
Andy
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Joined: 17 Aug 2017, 11:15
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:If KLK move is blocked, then we would have a good legal case to take action against FIFA for not allowing the freedom of movement KLK is entitled to.

Football has always had these weird rules which don’t apply in any other job. Obviously Bosman brought a legal case FIFA had no grounds to defend, and I think CTFC could as well.

KLK is born in France and a French citizen. We could hire him to start in my office tomorrow and FIFA must allow CTFC to do the same.
It would be KLKs case not CTFCs surely. We wouldn’t want to potentially pay out for it.


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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Andy wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:If KLK move is blocked, then we would have a good legal case to take action against FIFA for not allowing the freedom of movement KLK is entitled to.

Football has always had these weird rules which don’t apply in any other job. Obviously Bosman brought a legal case FIFA had no grounds to defend, and I think CTFC could as well.

KLK is born in France and a French citizen. We could hire him to start in my office tomorrow and FIFA must allow CTFC to do the same.
It would be KLKs case not CTFCs surely. We wouldn’t want to potentially pay out for it.


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Valid.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
There must be something more to this, in the case of the player who we almost signed a couple of years back from Eastern European I think he had an outstanding dispute with an agent which delayed and ultimately prevented the move. I hope there is nothing like this here but it's over two weeks not something feels a miss.
Artemis
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 20:36
Transfer of registration is subject to clearance of the previous governing body to confirm no outstanding disciplinary or financial dues. Bizarre and conceivably it doesn't prevent the player for being paid by a club. It's just they can't play in competitions that require registrations.

Closest I can think is an overseas awarding medical registration authority confirming that the medic in question when applying for a post in this country is not subject to any disciplinary or investigations. Not quite the same, but the best I can do!
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Time to reignite RNF cliches of windows past; sounds like excess baggage or an attitude problem.
horlickfanclub
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Why can't the clearance be handed to a player at the end of his contract. The club he is leaving would know of any outstanding fines etc. so should be able to hand it over with his p45 or whatever it is these days. The player is then a proper Free Agent. Is that too simple?
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Nesty
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Kalvin will be our 13th new signing.

Quite an overhaul. I have lost track as to which positions we are still short in (I.e positions for which we don’t have two men for every starting place).
Robin
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Right back and Left wing are only two we don't have two players who have listed as preferred position.
horlickfanclub
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Forster,Mullins , Thomas ,Tozer have all played right back.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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horlickfanclub wrote:Forster,Mullins , Thomas ,Tozer have all played right back.
Round pegs.
CTFC03
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Article says the club are hopeful, so he's not in yet, we really need it done and we need McCoulsky here for Saturday, I feel McCoulsky is one we cannot afford to miss out on.
Artemis
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horlickfanclub wrote:Why can't the clearance be handed to a player at the end of his contract. The club he is leaving would know of any outstanding fines etc. so should be able to hand it over with his p45 or whatever it is these days. The player is then a proper Free Agent. Is that too simple?
Because it's the governing body that has to provide it direct to the new governing body. Nothing to do with the player.
horlickfanclub
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I understand that. I was suggesting an alternative system. Looks like this season is going to be hard work here.
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Shade
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CTFC03 wrote:Article says the club are hopeful, so he's not in yet, we really need it done and we need McCoulsky here for Saturday, I feel McCoulsky is one we cannot afford to miss out on.
Even if we do end up signing McCoulsky, which I'm not convinced we will, he won't be cleared to play for at least a couple of weeks due to his heart condition, form what I read.
Artemis
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 20:36
horlickfanclub wrote:I understand that. I was suggesting an alternative system. Looks like this season is going to be hard work here.
No I don't think you do understand the principle. Your suggestion is not an alternative because it involves the player. Who, guess what, might just have an interest in an outstanding sum of money in say, Italy not getting in the way of a new contract in another country - let's say the UK for sake of argument. And that player might, might, just might, fake the clearance document that he's been given - or perhaps not actually been given at all. Therefore having the player involved is a bad idea; so if you're interested in the integrity of system, you'll want to contact the player's previous governing body directly to get a clear authentic record of the player's previous history and any outstanding issues. DIRECTLY, and not have the player conveying the information. Understand?

And you're right, with replies like yours, it is going to be hard work explaining basic concepts like this.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Artemis wrote:
horlickfanclub wrote:I understand that. I was suggesting an alternative system. Looks like this season is going to be hard work here.
No I don't think you do understand the principle. Your suggestion is not an alternative because it involves the player. Who, guess what, might just have an interest in an outstanding sum of money in say, Italy not getting in the way of a new contract in another country - let's say the UK for sake of argument. And that player might, might, just might, fake the clearance document that he's been given - or perhaps not actually been given at all. Therefore having the player involved is a bad idea; so if you're interested in the integrity of system, you'll want to contact the player's previous governing body directly to get a clear authentic record of the player's previous history and any outstanding issues. DIRECTLY, and not have the player conveying the information. Understand?

And you're right, with replies like yours, it is going to be hard work explaining basic concepts like this.
Simple in this day and age to do this electronically and have a digital ID for each player using blockchain to secure it. Then if anyone other than the club makes or changes a clearance document it will be flagged automatically as fraudulent as the blockchain as been tampered with. Similarly, any other information added to the blockchain by clubs or authorities cannot be edited or removed by the player or other clubs. Blockchain is the best method currently available for guaranteeing the authenticity of provenance for goods or data, and would enable issues like this to be solved in seconds with no debate.

Or we would have to do is look up the player ID on the ledger and click ‘sign’ and within seconds the computer would say whether he had clearance or not.
horlickfanclub
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Cheers for the technical ideas Regency. Just proves that there should be other options in this day and age.
Artemis
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 20:36
All nice ideas, but if it takes a national association this long to check a players registration entry and fax a copy of it to another national association, them I don't hold out much hope of them coming together to agree on, adopt or establish a blockchain or digital signature scheme this side of the the next century.
Artemis
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Even easier would be a UEFA wide player registration database. But again, don't hold your breath.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Artemis wrote:Even easier would be a UEFA wide player registration database. But again, don't hold your breath.
That is what I imagined the player digital ID being stored on.

It could be done without the clubs. UEFA set up the digital platform. Auditors paid to go round every pro-club and scan documents (most of which AI will be able to read and enter into the database correctly). Once set-up the club just has to be given a log-in. Then there is no no need for faxing as anyone can look up the documentation online and view the authenticated documents - again with the key information being able to be read by AI to automatically OK a deal.

Then as new contracts and documents are signed as players move, the buying club just scans the documents via an app and then don’t need to worry about filing or faxing or phoning.
Artemis
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Clubs aren't involved interbational clearance, RCS. It's an exhcnage of player registration information between the respective FAs, or so I'm led to believe. On an intra country transfer the status of the player is already known by the registration body. Obviously not the case in international transfers.
So yes, a UEFA wide database would seem eminently sensible. And not beyond the wit or resources of an organisation such as UEFA.
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Ihearye
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
Artemis wrote:Clubs aren't involved interbational clearance, RCS. It's an exhcnage of player registration information between the respective FAs, or so I'm led to believe. On an intra country transfer the status of the player is already known by the registration body. Obviously not the case in international transfers.
So yes, a UEFA wide database would seem eminently sensible. And not beyond the wit or resources of an organisation such as UEFA.
And people say Brexit will cause problems :)
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Artemis wrote:Clubs aren't involved interbational clearance, RCS. It's an exhcnage of player registration information between the respective FAs, or so I'm led to believe. On an intra country transfer the status of the player is already known by the registration body. Obviously not the case in international transfers.
So yes, a UEFA wide database would seem eminently sensible. And not beyond the wit or resources of an organisation such as UEFA.
Clubs must have some involvement as to quote Gary Johnson today: “We are waiting for information we need from his club.”
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