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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018, 21:15 
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I believe we need to add an experienced midfielder and probably two strikers. We face the real prospect of McAlindon and Lloyd upfront at the moment and it gives me little confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018, 21:24 
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Cody McDonald without a club? Blimey he's class or at least he used to be top end of L1 the last time I remember seeing him play. We should be going in for him if he's available even if he only gets us 10 goals it could be the difference between us doing something this season.

It's obvious now that GJ should have gone in the summer and we could have looked for somebody new. We haven't replaced Winchester, Pell and Eisa, ok Eisa was unlikely to stay but we should have put Winchester on a new deal in January but we didn't and that meant he was free to start looking elsewhere. Garrard has done an amazing job at Boreham Wood, Bowyer stands out on that list but I'm sure there would be plenty of takers for the job if GJ ends up going.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018, 22:46 
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Twist. I find it mind boggling he wasnt told to walk at the end of last season. Such a shame we have to have at least 3 more games of utter tripe before the board would even consider getting rid.

I mentioned it before- but it feels like more of a chore/punishment to go watch us play football these days, that in itself tells me there is a serious issue, and considering we change squads every year, i can only think of one person to blame for the awful style of football

apparently we were playing hoofball to addai today..... ADDAI. Get him out of our club he's absolutely lost the plot :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 08:26 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
We twisted by selling Mo with no intention of spending the money and risking cheap signings. I would have stuck with Mo.

Agree about Mo. We have had the odd chance in both games that Mo would likely have put away, instead he’s getting splinters in his arse at City.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 09:00 
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Robin wrote:
Two disappointing results and performances against unfancied sides, the loan window closing in two weeks time. Do we stick with GJ or twist and bring in a new manager?

For the first time I feel there are genuine cause for discussing the above and I'm on the fence.

We are about to find out if the new chairman has the required LEVEL of ambition for the club by making a new INSTALLATION, I`m CROSSING my fingers ?


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 09:05 
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everyman wrote:
Robin wrote:
Two disappointing results and performances against unfancied sides, the loan window closing in two weeks time. Do we stick with GJ or twist and bring in a new manager?

For the first time I feel there are genuine cause for discussing the above and I'm on the fence.

We are about to find out if the new chairman has the required LEVEL of ambition for the club by making a new INSTALLATION, I`m CROSSING my fingers ?


Hopefully the fans won’t be left to rail against poor decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 09:10 
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Maybe we need to train harder?


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 09:34 
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.....are we on the right lines...


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 09:45 
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Sounds like this season's promotion party has already been delayed - or maybe even cancelled.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 10:04 
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Looking more positively, the experience of Mullins and Tozer have given us a platform to build on. But the early season signals are we won’t have the points required to head where we want to go.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 10:36 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Looking more positively, the experience of Mullins and Tozer have given us a platform to build on. But the early season signals are we won’t have the points required to head where we want to go.

The train has left the station,hopefully !


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 10:52 
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everyman wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Looking more positively, the experience of Mullins and Tozer have given us a platform to build on. But the early season signals are we won’t have the points required to head where we want to go.

The train has left the station,hopefully !


Season close to hitting the buffers? Any other candidates waiting in the sidings in case the current manager is shunted.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018, 23:43 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
everyman wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Looking more positively, the experience of Mullins and Tozer have given us a platform to build on. But the early season signals are we won’t have the points required to head where we want to go.

The train has left the station,hopefully !


Season close to hitting the buffers? Any other candidates waiting in the sidings in case the current manager is shunted.


If we could just build up a good head of steam then that would give the fans something to be chuffed about


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 08:32 
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........too many sleepers posting and in the squad [?].....


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 09:24 
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I have always been of the opinion that we were fortunate to have GJ and that he would turn things around this summer with a new squad. I appreciate we are 2 games in but we look even worse off that the previous season, at least we had a goal threat about us last year. My opinion has changed, for me we need to replace him and we need to do it as soon as possible. We are currently staring in the face of another relegation dog fight.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 10:50 
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Twist.

No coherent strategy, poor recruitment and arrogant dismissal of supporters who question tactics and team selection.

GJ had a massive amount of capital in the bank after the National League season, but that was three years ago and he's long since exhausted it. As others have said, the board need to start thinking about succession and identifying candidates. Lets not hit the panic button, but its time to start planning for life after GJ.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 17:10 
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I'm gonna say stick for now.

We've only played two games this season with a completely new look team. Remember we only won 1 of our opening 4 the season we won the National league. We're missing two key full backs through injury and suspension that should be back before long. I get it's been poor, but I'm not going to right any players off after we've seen them play TWICE.

However, the last couple of seasons have been disappointing, so I'll give Gary until the end of September. If things are still looking bleak, then maybe it'll be time to say goodbye.

I also have no time for people saying we should have kept Mo. A brilliant player he was, but did we really think we could tell him that he can't play in the championship because we'd rather he stay and play in league 2 with us? Did we really think that we're big enough to turn down an offer of over £1 million? It's sad to see him go, but rather he leaves now on good terms for good money to bigger and better things than stay here and get frustrated because he's not allowed to play at a higher level, then leave on a free in two years time because why would he want to stay at a club that's impeding his career progression.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 17:33 
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East End Robin wrote:
I'm gonna say stick for now.

We've only played two games this season with a completely new look team. Remember we only won 1 of our opening 4 the season we won the National league. We're missing two key full backs through injury and suspension that should be back before long. I get it's been poor, but I'm not going to right any players off after we've seen them play TWICE.

However, the last couple of seasons have been disappointing, so I'll give Gary until the end of September. If things are still looking bleak, then maybe it'll be time to say goodbye.

I also have no time for people saying we should have kept Mo. A brilliant player he was, but did we really think we could tell him that he can't play in the championship because we'd rather he stay and play in league 2 with us? Did we really think that we're big enough to turn down an offer of over £1 million? It's sad to see him go, but rather he leaves now on good terms for good money to bigger and better things than stay here and get frustrated because he's not allowed to play at a higher level, then leave on a free in two years time because why would he want to stay at a club that's impeding his career progression.

Saved me typing a post with your comments here.

Can't help thinking (as Robin and others have mentioned) that the squad looks more geared towards a 5-3-2 / 3-5-2 system. I wasn't at Tranmere but from what I saw against Crawley we look lost in a 4-4-2.

Hopefully things will pick up soon.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 18:09 
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East End Robin wrote:
I'm gonna say stick for now.

We've only played two games this season with a completely new look team. Remember we only won 1 of our opening 4 the season we won the National league. We're missing two key full backs through injury and suspension that should be back before long. I get it's been poor, but I'm not going to right any players off after we've seen them play TWICE.

However, the last couple of seasons have been disappointing, so I'll give Gary until the end of September. If things are still looking bleak, then maybe it'll be time to say goodbye.

I also have no time for people saying we should have kept Mo. A brilliant player he was, but did we really think we could tell him that he can't play in the championship because we'd rather he stay and play in league 2 with us? Did we really think that we're big enough to turn down an offer of over £1 million? It's sad to see him go, but rather he leaves now on good terms for good money to bigger and better things than stay here and get frustrated because he's not allowed to play at a higher level, then leave on a free in two years time because why would he want to stay at a club that's impeding his career progression.


If results do change what evidence is there will not be a repeat of:
1. Appalling pre season planning
2. Appalling transfer policy
3. Playing players out of position
4. The endless love in with Bristol City
5. Playing staff clear outs every season
6. Petty disputes with players
7. The realisation that some players 'may not be at the required level'
8. The manager still trying to find his best XI in April

So they win a few games then what? Give him another season......?


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 18:10 
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I'm generally pro-GJ, and I like to think I'm far from knee-jerk when it comes to reactions. I wasn't hugely in favour of GJ being put in charge when he first came into the club and it always felt like he thought he was doing us a favour, the way he spoke about himself and the club. Obviously, over time he won me over. Firstly, by signing a new contract just after we'd been relegated, and then by getting us promoted. Up until now I've generally been able to see the problems that he's had over the last couple of years and sympathise with the position he's been in regarding the players on the books and some of the poor performances. However, sometimes he hasn't helped himself with regards to the fans with some of the things he's said, or with the apparent treatment of some players (not that we fully know what's gone on).

Right now, I'm still of the mind we should keep GJ and take it game by game. I won't say give him until the end of September, or December, or anything like that because we could get hammered tomorrow and Saturday and the level of abuse from the GJ-out camp will be unbearable and something will have to give. However, 5 wins from the next 8 or 9 and we'll be back on track and looking to improve. Along with most, I see that as unlikely to happen right now through bad luck with injuries, having not replaced our star striker (whether that is GJ, PJ or others faults, we don't know - we're not privy to that information) and my biggest bugbear, the fact GJ seemed to sign players designed for a 3-5-2 only to start using a 4-4-2, completely opposite from last summer where we seemed to be set up for a 4-4-2 and started playing 3-5-2.

The one thing that dawned on me on Saturday was that I was waiting for Tranmere to score and really wasn't expecting us to get an equaliser - I might as well have been a neutral from my reactions whilst listening to the game. That might have been because of Peter Matthews incessant droning on about the same point, but I realised I was the same in the home game the week before and shouldn't be feeling that way one/two games into the new season.

It's got to be taken game-by-game and I hope, like I'm sure we all do (huh?) that we start playing much better for 90 minutes, score some goals and win some games, but there has also got to be some degree of reality to it. We're not a rich club, even if we have just got some money from the Eisa sale, and we can't expect us to hire and fire managers and players like some other clubs. I'm not talking about what should or should not have happened in the summer, just the situation we're in now.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 18:18 
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I dont understand how people are not absolutley enraged in how the club have 'prepared' for this coming season, yet 'again' we are in the same position as we were two seasons ago, winning a few games should not cover up the fact the playing side of this club is a complete shambles (again), this is a professional football club here not some Sunday league pi££ed up jolly.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 18:34 
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East End Robin wrote:
I'm gonna say stick for now.

We've only played two games this season with a completely new look team. Remember we only won 1 of our opening 4 the season we won the National league. We're missing two key full backs through injury and suspension that should be back before long. I get it's been poor, but I'm not going to right any players off after we've seen them play TWICE.

However, the last couple of seasons have been disappointing, so I'll give Gary until the end of September. If things are still looking bleak, then maybe it'll be time to say goodbye.

I also have no time for people saying we should have kept Mo. A brilliant player he was, but did we really think we could tell him that he can't play in the championship because we'd rather he stay and play in league 2 with us? Did we really think that we're big enough to turn down an offer of over £1 million? It's sad to see him go, but rather he leaves now on good terms for good money to bigger and better things than stay here and get frustrated because he's not allowed to play at a higher level, then leave on a free in two years time because why would he want to stay at a club that's impeding his career progression.


I would love Gary to succeed (simply as I don't see too many better options) however I've seen us play four times now and in three of those games it's been so obvious that our midfield isn't working yet Gary still persists in shoe horning the team into a 4-4-2. If he could at least change the formation to suit the players we do have I would be a lot more patient with him.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 20:21 
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I really don't understand how people think we couldn't get a better manager. After 101 league games he's averaging little more than a point a game. I can't see how we could get anyone worse, to be honest.

I didn't want Yates sacked as I was worried we wouldn't get anyone better. But Yates had twice taken us the play-offs and even in his last season and a bit had a better record than Johnson.

People seemed mesmerised by what he's done at other clubs. His league 2 record with us is as bad as any of our previous managers and I have no confidence it will get better. If it gets worse we go down.

The sad thing is he should've gone last season or at least in the summer before he had the chance to bring in a stack of mediocre players on two-year contracts. So there's no point in sacking him now as any new manager would be stuck with his players. I would look at changing things in November when a new man could prepare for January.

Johnson supporters said last season he was building for this season. Then he signed a stack of new players so the building clearly didn't go very well. He's signed these players now needs to make it work somehow. I certainly wouldn't allow him to waste any more money.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 20:37 
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Some good posts here.
All I would say Del Boy is that if we are going to change the manager it should be done sooner
rather than later when all the Mo money might be spent. A new manager coming in now inherits a well run club with most
of the season to correct things and also (just as important) a fair wedge of money to improve the squad

I'm sorry I don't buy this 'we can't spend the Mo money on players because of FFP rules' Other clubs
get round it ok. If that was the case why hold out to the end of the summer for the best price for
Mo only to find you cant spend the money anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 20:49 
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drgm wrote:
Some good posts here.
All I would say Del Boy is that if we are going to change the manager it should be done sooner
rather than later when all the Mo money might be spent. A new manager coming in now inherits a well run club with most
of the season to correct things and also (just as important) a fair wedge of money to improve the squad

I'm sorry I don't buy this 'we can't spend the Mo money on players because of FFP rules' Other clubs
get round it ok. If that was the case why hold out to the end of the summer for the best price for
Mo only to find you cant spend the money anyway?


I just think it was a massive missed opportunity in the summer. Eisa was always likely to leave and with the money from Pell as well we could've gone into it with a new manager and no financial problems.

At present we're stuck with Johnson and a stack of his players on two-year deals. Apart from Eisa and the odd one of two others his summer transfer dealings in the last three years have been appalling so to allow him to sign so many players could be a predicted disaster.

I get why you would want him gone asap, drgm - I certainly wouldn't be against it. I'd rather he'd gone last season but it's clear he's not going to succeed here.

That said we would have to pay him off and it would be a massive shift from the board who backed him only a few weeks ago.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 20:53 
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There maybe a host of other considerations and scenarios we have not discussed or don’t know about of course.

For example, Gary does bring stability and experience during the start of the rookie season for the new Chairman. For all we know, Gary may have said to the Board he wanted to stand down but the Chairman asked him to stay on and help during his first transfer window and first season. Not at all suggesting this did happen - it is just one of many potential scenarios that may have resulted in us being where we are.

For better or worse Gary didn’t spend the money. A new manager may have taken advantage of a rookie chairman keen to make his mark and we may have blown the money on dross. Again, we just don’t know.

I believe that Gary is a decent honest chap, and he will know when he has lost the spark and will step aside. He’ll also be speaking to the Board and new Chairman frequently and both parties will know the respective ambition and commitment of the other.

I don’t think the fans forcing anything or calling for anything will help - I think Gary and the Board will both know when the time is right for change.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 21:46 
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What’s Ian Holloway doing now? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 21:57 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
I believe that Gary is a decent honest chap, and he will know when he has lost the spark and will step aside. He’ll also be speaking to the Board and new Chairman frequently and both parties will know the respective ambition and commitment of the other..


Could be too late by then


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 21:59 
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longmover wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
I believe that Gary is a decent honest chap, and he will know when he has lost the spark and will step aside. He’ll also be speaking to the Board and new Chairman frequently and both parties will know the respective ambition and commitment of the other..


Could be too late by then


By definition, knowing when to do it, cannot be too late.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 13 Aug 2018, 22:06 
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yes it can.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018, 08:04 
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Some excellent posts amongst the knee jerk ones.

I don't recall much criticism of GJ's summer recruitment - indeed, many welcomed the strengthening of the defence in particular. It is obvious that Mo's departure has left a massive gap up front that is going to be very hard to fill. If it was certain that Mo was leaving at the start of summer - and I don't think it was by any means certain at that point - then we should've gone all out to sign a proven goal scorer like Akinde. But that is now hindsight; we are where we are.

GJ remains our manager for the foreseeable and I agree with the likes of Shade, East End, Robin and RCS that showing him the door now would be counter productive. If GJ was to leave, it should've happened at the end of last season before the recruitment got under way. However, that was never likely given the club's handover to a novice chairman. There are similar parallels with the end of the Mark Yates era. He, arguably, should've gone sooner but he didn't. The board eventually succumbed to pressure and we had a succession of managers, which culminated in relegation from the FL. While, at the time, I thought the board should've stuck with Mark (having retained him for that season), it's much easier saying these things from the safety of the keyboard than it is making those visible decisions. It's akin to Government having to take responsibility for its actions and living with the consequences while the opposition gleefully says "I told you so".

We are two games into the season and the early signs are not promising. However, sacking GJ now would be ridiculous having allowed him the opportunity to build the squad for the coming season. Clearly, if results were to show no signs of improving, then a difficult decision may have to be made before the next transfer window. But, as others have said, it's still early days - far too early to make a knee jerk reaction that the club could live to regret.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018, 09:06 
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Del Boy wrote:
I really don't understand how people think we couldn't get a better manager. After 101 league games he's averaging little more than a point a game. I can't see how we could get anyone worse, to be honest.

I didn't want Yates sacked as I was worried we wouldn't get anyone better. But Yates had twice taken us the play-offs and even in his last season and a bit had a better record than Johnson.

People seemed mesmerised by what he's done at other clubs. His league 2 record with us is as bad as any of our previous managers and I have no confidence it will get better. If it gets worse we go down.

The sad thing is he should've gone last season or at least in the summer before he had the chance to bring in a stack of mediocre players on two-year contracts. So there's no point in sacking him now as any new manager would be stuck with his players. I would look at changing things in November when a new man could prepare for January.

Johnson supporters said last season he was building for this season. Then he signed a stack of new players so the building clearly didn't go very well. He's signed these players now needs to make it work somehow. I certainly wouldn't allow him to waste any more money.


Nobody has said we couldn't get a better manager just what is out there isn't actually very good. I believe GJ is likely on the verge of the sack but I'd love to hear from you Del Boy a few realistic names that have some relative track record of success that we could point to with optimism. The only realistic out of contract options I see are Gary Bowyer and Keith Curle.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018, 09:09 
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Uppy wrote:
What’s Ian Holloway doing now? ;)


I mentioned him and to be honest I do feel it's worth an approach. He's a proven manager and I believe based in Bristol. Yes I know he's largely managed in the 2nd tier but geography and a decent war chest to get us promoted may swing it. It's unlikely of course but Holloway and SC should be our first points of contact should GJ leave.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018, 09:23 
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He's signed a deal with Quest to be a pundit on their EFL programme.

No doubt it would be easy for him to get out of, but I can't see Holloway dropping to League 2, or even if his heart is even in it anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: stick or twist?
 Post Posted: 14 Aug 2018, 11:17 
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Oh I agree Si, it's reaching but I would say we would be wrong not to try as he has a decent record overall and it may appeal to him as a way back into mgmt, living close and with decent resources at his disposal.

The alternative is we look at first time managers, it worked for Luton with Nathan Jones but the success rate of these appointments generally isn't very good.


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