Timing

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Nesty
Posts: 6652
Joined: 18 Jun 2011, 09:17
Cheltenham's current demise has, I feel, been caused by a sequence of events that mainly could not have been prevented, or even predicted.

1. Change of Chairman. Although PB had said he was stepping down he did not do so until late in preseason. Do you think there was ever a conversation between PB and AW along the lines "when you take over are you going to stick with GJ?" I somehow doubt it. What if PB hadn't stepped down would GJ still be here?.

2. Mo Eisa sale, Again had the sale of Mo Eisa happened earlier then GJ would have had more time to spend money on a replacement. I for one have said that whether we sold Mo or not we still needed to sign strikers, We didnt.

3. Departure of Brian Graham

4. Even the last few days - why was the sacking of GJ not done after Saturday - even the few days between Saturday and last night may be crucial in signing players.
East End Robin
Posts: 61
Joined: 03 May 2017, 17:04
Not really sure how much I agree...

1) Alright, I agree with this one

2) This was inevitable, surely? It was a case of when, not if. Not preventable, no. And you're right, it would have helped if he'd gone a bit earlier than he did, but that was out of our control

3) Certainly predictable and preventable IMO. I know he got stick and suffered with injuries, but he only really got one decent run in the first team, and he did quite well actually, scoring 5 goals in a couple of months. He's not the best striker we've ever had, but I'm sure the target man that he is would have scored a couple in the games we had. I'm not missing something with his departure, am I?

4) Also predictable and preventable. Personally I think he should have gone either before pre-season, or we should give him maybe 10 games. I think sacking him now is very poor timing considering how fresh the squad is. Why last night's result has completely changed the board's mind from Saturday is beyond me really.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
I would imagine the board didn't sack GJ on Saturday so they could have him in charge last night rather than Milton but were lining up replacements before hand. If Milton is in charge on Saturday then I conceed I am wrong and it's been very poorly done.
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Nesty
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Joined: 18 Jun 2011, 09:17
East End Robin wrote:Not really sure how much I agree...

1) Alright, I agree with this one

2) This was inevitable, surely? It was a case of when, not if. Not preventable, no. And you're right, it would have helped if he'd gone a bit earlier than he did, but that was out of our control

3) Certainly predictable and preventable IMO. I know he got stick and suffered with injuries, but he only really got one decent run in the first team, and he did quite well actually, scoring 5 goals in a couple of months. He's not the best striker we've ever had, but I'm sure the target man that he is would have scored a couple in the games we had. I'm not missing something with his departure, am I?

4) Also predictable and preventable. Personally I think he should have gone either before pre-season, or we should give him maybe 10 games. I think sacking him now is very poor timing considering how fresh the squad is. Why last night's result has completely changed the board's mind from Saturday is beyond me really.
that would be telling :-)
THECHOIRBOY
Posts: 900
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:15
Judging by Paul baker comment on Facebook that Mark Halliwell posted then he would be here calling the manner and timing as "crass", "reflecting poorly on the board"

https://twitter.com/CTFC_Fans/status/10 ... 9687263232" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29757
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Nesty wrote:
East End Robin wrote:Not really sure how much I agree...

1) Alright, I agree with this one

2) This was inevitable, surely? It was a case of when, not if. Not preventable, no. And you're right, it would have helped if he'd gone a bit earlier than he did, but that was out of our control

3) Certainly predictable and preventable IMO. I know he got stick and suffered with injuries, but he only really got one decent run in the first team, and he did quite well actually, scoring 5 goals in a couple of months. He's not the best striker we've ever had, but I'm sure the target man that he is would have scored a couple in the games we had. I'm not missing something with his departure, am I?

4) Also predictable and preventable. Personally I think he should have gone either before pre-season, or we should give him maybe 10 games. I think sacking him now is very poor timing considering how fresh the squad is. Why last night's result has completely changed the board's mind from Saturday is beyond me really.
that would be telling :-)
Reports, admittedly from ‘Hard Garexiters’, that there was bullying in the changing room and training ground. Stories been doing the rounds in pubs and PMs on here.
East End Robin
Posts: 61
Joined: 03 May 2017, 17:04
Well...

Fair play you've both well and truly flummoxed me :lol: :lol: :lol:
vickeryc
Posts: 1198
Joined: 30 May 2012, 07:18
Location: Cirencester
Nesty wrote:Cheltenham's current demise has, I feel, been caused by a sequence of events that mainly could not have been prevented, or even predicted.

1. Change of Chairman. Although PB had said he was stepping down he did not do so until late in preseason. Do you think there was ever a conversation between PB and AW along the lines "when you take over are you going to stick with GJ?" I somehow doubt it. What if PB hadn't stepped down would GJ still be here?.

2. Mo Eisa sale, Again had the sale of Mo Eisa happened earlier then GJ would have had more time to spend money on a replacement. I for one have said that whether we sold Mo or not we still needed to sign strikers, We didnt.

3. Departure of Brian Graham

4. Even the last few days - why was the sacking of GJ not done after Saturday - even the few days between Saturday and last night may be crucial in signing players.
I’m not normally one to cry over spilt milk, but I believe the current demise could’ve been prevented if the new board had, at the outset, planned a strategy on two key matters:
(i) Whether to dispense with Gary’s services for 2018/19 or retain him and publicly backing whoever was appointed by giving them a fair crack of the whip.
(ii) Whether to sell Mo during the summer or retain him for 2017/18 (bearing in mind his contract still had two years to run).

Regarding (i), if Gary had been released, a new manager could’ve been appointed promptly and allowed to build his own squad for the coming season. On the other hand, having been retained, Gary should’ve received the board’s full backing and had it made clear that he would be given sufficient opportunity to build the new squad (see also below) and allowed ample time for the new team to gel. Ample time should, for better or worse, have been at least up until the January window.

Regarding (ii), if the board had decided that Mo would definitely be sold during the summer, then the manager could’ve sought an experienced striker in the full knowledge that sufficient funds would be available. Someone like Akinde or Dennis might well have been tempted by a decent offer. The fact that £100k from the sale of Harry Pell was already in the bank provided a substantial chunk of the likely fee in any event. If, on the other hand, Mo had been retained for 2018/19 (as I wish he had), then talk of getting a replacement would obviously have been academic. With Mo still here, along with the decent defence we now have, the Robins could be well up the table.

It was appalling that Gary was sacked before the journey back to Cheltenham – the worst possible timing. He deserved far better than that.
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Sprout Picker
Posts: 1150
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:20
vickeryc wrote:
Nesty wrote:Cheltenham's current demise has, I feel, been caused by a sequence of events that mainly could not have been prevented, or even predicted.

1. Change of Chairman. Although PB had said he was stepping down he did not do so until late in preseason. Do you think there was ever a conversation between PB and AW along the lines "when you take over are you going to stick with GJ?" I somehow doubt it. What if PB hadn't stepped down would GJ still be here?.

2. Mo Eisa sale, Again had the sale of Mo Eisa happened earlier then GJ would have had more time to spend money on a replacement. I for one have said that whether we sold Mo or not we still needed to sign strikers, We didnt.

3. Departure of Brian Graham

4. Even the last few days - why was the sacking of GJ not done after Saturday - even the few days between Saturday and last night may be crucial in signing players.
I’m not normally one to cry over spilt milk, but I believe the current demise could’ve been prevented if the new board had, at the outset, planned a strategy on two key matters:
(i) Whether to dispense with Gary’s services for 2018/19 or retain him and publicly backing whoever was appointed by giving them a fair crack of the whip.
(ii) Whether to sell Mo during the summer or retain him for 2017/18 (bearing in mind his contract still had two years to run).

Regarding (i), if Gary had been released, a new manager could’ve been appointed promptly and allowed to build his own squad for the coming season. On the other hand, having been retained, Gary should’ve received the board’s full backing and had it made clear that he would be given sufficient opportunity to build the new squad (see also below) and allowed ample time for the new team to gel. Ample time should, for better or worse, have been at least up until the January window.

Regarding (ii), if the board had decided that Mo would definitely be sold during the summer, then the manager could’ve sought an experienced striker in the full knowledge that sufficient funds would be available. Someone like Akinde or Dennis might well have been tempted by a decent offer. The fact that £100k from the sale of Harry Pell was already in the bank provided a substantial chunk of the likely fee in any event. If, on the other hand, Mo had been retained for 2018/19 (as I wish he had), then talk of getting a replacement would obviously have been academic. With Mo still here, along with the decent defence we now have, the Robins could be well up the table.

It was appalling that Gary was sacked before the journey back to Cheltenham – the worst possible timing. He deserved far better than that.
Good post.

With reference to your last sentence, it was a truly abysmal way to treat the man if true, and I've heard nothing to suggest that it isn't. Whoever is responsible should be ashamed.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
Andy Wilcox says on Radio Glos tonight that they sacked Gary as they wanted to do it face to face and he was going to be away and didn't want to do it over the phone.
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Horteng
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Joined: 25 Nov 2009, 22:57
Location: Heart of the Forest, Glos
Robin wrote:Andy Wilcox says on Radio Glos tonight that they sacked Gary as they wanted to do it face to face and he was going to be away and didn't want to do it over the phone.
And if you believe that you’ll believe anything

It was a very bullish approach. Gary deserved more respect than that.

Yes robin I felt it was time for Gary to move on but the timing was awful. Transfer window shut and they backed him on Saturday ffs. I think the power went to Andy Wilcox’s head
little mo
Posts: 1717
Joined: 26 Dec 2012, 17:27
Vickery C, I agree with you entirely reference your last sentence. I said on another thread yesterday that to be told before driving all the way back to Chelt with players and staff was bad. But the more I think about it, it was actually disgusting, he did not deserve that,and whoever made that decision should be ashamed.
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Lord Elpuz
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011, 19:35
Horteng wrote:
Robin wrote:Andy Wilcox says on Radio Glos tonight that they sacked Gary as they wanted to do it face to face and he was going to be away and didn't want to do it over the phone.
And if you believe that you’ll believe anything

It was a very bullish approach. Gary deserved more respect than that.

Yes robin I felt it was time for Gary to move on but the timing was awful. Transfer window shut and they backed him on Saturday ffs. I think the power went to Andy Wilcox’s head
That is a really weird thing for AW to claim. How long was GJ going to be away for, bearing in mind he’d got a team to run, AND he was chasing down some strikers? It makes no sense to me, and does not tie in at all with the demands placed on managers and players during the football season.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29757
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Lord Elpuz wrote:
Horteng wrote:
Robin wrote:Andy Wilcox says on Radio Glos tonight that they sacked Gary as they wanted to do it face to face and he was going to be away and didn't want to do it over the phone.
And if you believe that you’ll believe anything

It was a very bullish approach. Gary deserved more respect than that.

Yes robin I felt it was time for Gary to move on but the timing was awful. Transfer window shut and they backed him on Saturday ffs. I think the power went to Andy Wilcox’s head
That is a really weird thing for AW to claim. How long was GJ going to be away for, bearing in mind he’d got a team to run, AND he was chasing down some strikers? It makes no sense to me, and does not tie in at all with the demands placed on managers and players during the football season.
In fairness is not more likely it is AW who is going away?

Also, to give due consideration - AW by his own admission is learning the ropes in a difficult job balancing business and personal life. He realised the fans were not happy that the Board ignored fans on ticket prices and released a well received statement. Then when the Club statement on Gary was made on Saturday the reaction from the vocal contingent online was derision and criticism, then came the chanting on Tuesday suggesting the Saturday statement had not quelled the negativity. Having realised the ticket price error, I can understand the desire to not let protests and chants build up further and act on the fans complaints.
Si Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 10:29
I'm in agreement with most people I think, the sacking whilst still in Macclesfield was out of order and unprofessional. I also don't agree that GJ didn't achieve what he was told to achieve in Saturday's statement. That in itself was clearly a stalling tactic.

It was/is the right time for change, but they could have waited until yesterday morning, regardless of whether AW was there or not.

With that being said, if AW wasn't there, then he would be derided for scurrying away rather than doing it face to face, so he was in a lose-lose situation.
steveinblack
Posts: 52
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 23:57
As someone who has been sacked numerous times, I would prefer a telephone dismissal to a 100 mile coach journey with my former workmates
I know LCI. Is probably busy this time of year what with everyone doing their level crossings up(really is this an actual business) but surely Wilcox could have found time to pop round Gary's the next day to deliver the bad news personally. the
Total shambles from the new chairman so far.
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Ihearye
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If you are seriously suggesting AW is running the club due to social media or a handful of yoots. Then he better go now
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:If you are seriously suggesting AW is running the club due to social media or a handful of yoots. Then he better go now
I was saying these are all things which may be new to him as Chairman and part of the baptism of fire - I was defending AW in response to Lord Elpuz in fact.
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Nesty
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Read my initial post.

All we have seen since has further compounded these events

What a mess..... Oh and look at the thread about Duku, Wright etc?..... and Danny Rowe got two today....

We are up s#!t creek without a paddle

Never mind raising the stand....
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
The decision not to pay what was needed for Rowe has proven very costly, with money instead wasted on a sucession of poor loans and journey men free transfers.
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Ihearye
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do we have the players to provide the service to him, even if he were here ?
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:do we have the players to provide the service to him, even if he were here ?
Not since Kalala has gone.
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