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 Post subject: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 21:51 
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What a debacle tonight.....from being the top team in Cheltenhamshire we now hit rock bottom....who is to blame? The spineless and incompetent board....from the way they handled the sacking of GJ - regardless of reasons - with no back-up plan in place whatsoever, to the way they have reacted to the crisis.
You know what? Tonight I feel like I have been cheated as a life time fan of some 60 years - yup - birthday today and first went to a game when 4....ugh...too many years....but great years - ups and downs - yes, lots - but everyone involved cared about the club during those years from fans to players to part-time board members and amazing volunteers, yet now I feel all our history - good and bad - is being desecrated by a bunch of amateurs. We supporters and the club are being destroyed by a bunch of idiots on the board. Shares have tonight been sacrificed and burnt.....thank you Wilcox for destroying OUR club.
It is with great sadness that I announce the sad loss of Cheltenham Town Football Club....RIP
Cag


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 21:52 
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So sad to read Cag, I know you care about the club deeply and this just sums up the situation so well.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 21:55 
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The board and GJ are jointly responsible for the position we find ourselves in. I thought exciting times were ahead with an ambitious new chairman coming in but the way things have been handles so far have been completely amateurish.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:12 
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Thanks Robin.....it runs deep for us supporters....as we both know....and it hurts so so much :-(
I run 3 global companies now and if I did so a la CTFC - they would be dead and buried....no business acumen and a bunch of wxxxers
Cag


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:18 
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I’m not sure it’s fair to blame Andy Wilcox, he’s at least putting a good sum of his own money into the club but can the same be said for each and every board member?
I’d love to know what the board members do that doesn’t warrant financial input. If it’s about bringing a skill set then why not open it up to hundreds of fans? Feels like we’ve got the old select clique again and that clique is bringing us down as a club


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:23 
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London Exile wrote:
I’m not sure it’s fair to blame Andy Wilcox, he’s at least putting a good sum of his own money into the club but can the same be said for each and every board member?
I’d love to know what the board members do that doesn’t warrant financial input. If it’s about bringing a skill set then why not open it up to hundreds of fans? Feels like we’ve got the old select clique again and that clique is bringing us down as a club

Good post I feel Wilcox is getting a lot of unfair stick. He is new to the role and is learning it's not him who assembled a poor squad and has overseen the last few poor seasons. In fact he seemed to be the one who want GJ before this season which look like it would have been a good decision. He seems very down to earth and is often in the club bar after games chatting to fans. Out of interest who are the other board members?


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:26 
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Sadly I think you've summed that up well but I do feel Wilcox isn't to blame for starting the season with Johnson if he'd of had it his own way we would have had a clean slate.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:31 
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I-Love-CTFC wrote:
The board and GJ are jointly responsible for the position we find ourselves in. I thought exciting times were ahead with an ambitious new chairman coming in but the way things have been handles so far have been completely amateurish.


Still waiting for action to back up the ambitious words. He talked a good game re: business contacts and boosting sponsorship income, which I must say seems to have worked as the number of hoardings around the pitch and at the back of the stands has definitely gone up noticeably. But on the other hand, we end up with a stadium sponsor or the size of Jonny Rocks - hardly stellar or an impressive business people have heard of.

Re: the contradictory statements/actions on Gary. I concede Gary should have left, either in the summer or after being given a chance this season (or as soon as a replacement was lined up to step in). So on the one hand the Board acted decisively, but on the other hand with poor timing and seemingly no thought on the consequences of those actions. As per the OP; the way it was done and the aftermath was poor.

The new Chairman is learning. Running what is essentially a loss making business in the medium term with so many people demanding success and media/social media critics is not easy, but reactionary behaviour and making it up as you go is an easy trap to fall in to.

The next appointment is key. And the transfer strategy (financially wise) in January is key. Both require thought and planning. But the timing of the sacking of Johnson means time is off the essence and any thought and planning needs to have happened quickly, which is a risk.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:36 
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Interesting.....I have posted a further 4 replies to LE at el.....and none appear on the site! I will investigate tomorrow to see if the club are monitoring and deleting posts that are perhaps somewhat contentious ;-p)
Cag


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:40 
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cagliostro wrote:
What a debacle tonight.....from being the top team in Cheltenhamshire we now hit rock bottom....who is to blame? The spineless and incompetent board....from the way they handled the sacking of GJ - regardless of reasons - with no back-up plan in place whatsoever, to the way they have reacted to the crisis.
You know what? Tonight I feel like I have been cheated as a life time fan of some 60 years - yup - birthday today and first went to a game when 4....ugh...too many years....but great years - ups and downs - yes, lots - but everyone involved cared about the club during those years from fans to players to part-time board members and amazing volunteers, yet now I feel all our history - good and bad - is being desecrated by a bunch of amateurs. We supporters and the club are being destroyed by a bunch of idiots on the board. Shares have tonight been sacrificed and burnt.....thank you Wilcox for destroying OUR club.
It is with great sadness that I announce the sad loss of Cheltenham Town Football Club....RIP
Cag

Yes Cag your bang on what you have said. The board are bloody shambles. No back up plan whats so ever. Oh and Happy Birthday Mate.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 22:41 
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:-)
Cag


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 23:03 
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The end was nigh in 2014/15. It was temporarily stalled by Gary Johnson.

It’s almost as if the last 3 years never happened. We are back to where we were in 2014/15 and probably have a (new) Chairman who is wondering whether he really relishes carrying on, just like back then with Paul Baker. Gary Johnson gave this Club a stay of execution, but sadly too many people are blaming him for the current situation; in truth, what we are really seeing now is what the club was like before Johnson started. The only difference is that Johnson has left the club in a far healthier financial position than when he started.

Get this next manager appointment wrong and the club could squander its one opportunity to progress, and the Eisa money will be spent paying off players/managers & panic buying in January to stave off a disastrous second relegation to non-league. We literally have a brief ‘window’ of opportunity to maintain full time, professional, football league status, or the last three years have been a complete waste of everyone’s time.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 04 Sep 2018, 23:13 
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Lord Elpuz wrote:
The end was nigh in 2014/15. It was temporarily stalled by Gary Johnson.

It’s almost as if the last 3 years never happened. We are back to where we were in 2014/15 and probably have a (new) Chairman who is wondering whether he really relishes carrying on, just like back then with Paul Baker. Gary Johnson gave this Club a stay of execution, but sadly too many people are blaming him for the current situation; in truth, what we are really seeing now is what the club was like before Johnson started. The only difference is that Johnson has left the club in a far healthier financial position than when he started.

Get this next manager appointment wrong and the club could squander its one opportunity to progress, and the Eisa money will be spent paying off players/managers & panic buying in January to stave off a disastrous second relegation to non-league. We literally have a brief ‘window’ of opportunity to maintain full time, professional, football league status, or the last three years have been a complete waste of everyone’s time.


That’s the saddest thing. The Champions season looking like the final flurry of activity from a dying patient on a hospital bed, before subsiding to commotose via a few twitches of false hope (Spring 2017, Eisa) and now the life support machine was switched off one night in Cheshire in a rash move by the doctor without a better resuscitation plan in place. The porter his doing his best mouth to mouth to keep the patient alive, as onlookers hope a new cure is found.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 06:28 
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A painful and accurate analogy RCS. The onlookers have got to help the porter until the best qualified Consultant can come in and perform drastic transplant surgery. It’s our only hope. The patient will be in intensive care. Visiting hours are Saturday’s, 15:00-16:55.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 06:58 
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I am well aware I am in a minority of one, most probably. But can't listen to this champions year stuff much longer. It is madeto sound as if GJ picked up a low level NL team and transformed them in to world beaters as the big boys looked on. We were the league team coming down were prepared to spend money. Surely. It wouldn't have been that hard to get the better NL players to join the crtusade?


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 08:14 
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There is no question we had a very good budget and were one of the big fish at that level but GJ took a club on it's knees brought in a load of players and romped the league that needs to be recognised as a fantastic achievement.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 08:35 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
I-Love-CTFC wrote:
The board and GJ are jointly responsible for the position we find ourselves in. I thought exciting times were ahead with an ambitious new chairman coming in but the way things have been handles so far have been completely amateurish.


Still waiting for action to back up the ambitious words. He talked a good game re: business contacts and boosting sponsorship income, which I must say seems to have worked as the number of hoardings around the pitch and at the back of the stands has definitely gone up noticeably. But on the other hand, we end up with a stadium sponsor or the size of Jonny Rocks - hardly stellar or an impressive business people have heard of.

Re: the contradictory statements/actions on Gary. I concede Gary should have left, either in the summer or after being given a chance this season (or as soon as a replacement was lined up to step in). So on the one hand the Board acted decisively, but on the other hand with poor timing and seemingly no thought on the consequences of those actions. As per the OP; the way it was done and the aftermath was poor.

The new Chairman is learning. Running what is essentially a loss making business in the medium term with so many people demanding success and media/social media critics is not easy, but reactionary behaviour and making it up as you go is an easy trap to fall in to.

The next appointment is key. And the transfer strategy (financially wise) in January is key. Both require thought and planning. But the timing of the sacking of Johnson means time is off the essence and any thought and planning needs to have happened quickly, which is a risk.


I learnt from an impeccable and impeachable source within the very senior Cheltenham hierarchy that the Gary Johnson managerial debacle can be fully laid at the feet of former chairman Paul Baker.

The present board and chairman wanted to sack GJ during the summer to allow a new manager the opportunity to purchase his own players and time to train them up. Those plans were scuppered by Paul Baker.
Everybody at Whaddon Road can now see the folly of Baker’s interference.

This is not a Fake post. Check it out with your own board for confirmation.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 09:12 
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I have heard similar OTC.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 09:17 
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only one man to blame, and then he had the audacity to criticise AW for the way he handled things.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 15:34 
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Hang on, Paul Baker resigned as a Director in May. Surely then the new Chairman could have acted to remove GJ if he'd wanted. I don't buy the it's PBs fault for standing in the way of the removal of GJ.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 15:40 
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Artemis wrote:
Hang on, Paul Baker resigned as a Director in May. Surely then the new Chairman could have acted to remove GJ if he'd wanted. I don't buy the it's PBs fault for standing in the way of the removal of GJ.


Blame the old manager, blame the old chairman. Convenient.

Blame culture helps no one and is the route to an underperforming business. The current Board f*cked it up with their actions/timings. Now move on and find a way to learn from it and improve the situation rather than waste time looking for blame.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 15:58 
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Ihearye wrote:
I am well aware I am in a minority of one, most probably. But can't listen to this champions year stuff much longer. It is madeto sound as if GJ picked up a low level NL team and transformed them in to world beaters as the big boys looked on. We were the league team coming down were prepared to spend money. Surely. It wouldn't have been that hard to get the better NL players to join the crtusade?


We must not diminish the achievement because it is fact and part of the Club’s great history now. Johnson saw off the likes of Tranmere who came down with us, and FGR who had the real cash to spend. Johnson got CTFC straight back up, kept the club in League 2, stayed within budget & increased its wealth substantially. He had a much more difficult job than that which the next manager will take up. And that’s nother fact.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 16:14 
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Artemis wrote:
Hang on, Paul Baker resigned as a Director in May. Surely then the new Chairman could have acted to remove GJ if he'd wanted. I don't buy the it's PBs fault for standing in the way of the removal of GJ.


I started a thread a while back entitled "timing". Yes PB announced his retirement in May, but when did AW take over? we can speculate all we want but the "gap" when nobody seemed to be in charge has created this problem. If there was a push from other board members to get rid of GJ at the end of last season, then "they" (including AW) didnt push hard enough. Surely PB would have been aware of the unrest in the camp??

This mess was so avoidable, but now we are where we are, better decisions have to be made, and whoever gets the nod will have my backing, unless it is Buckle or Allen of course !!


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 05 Sep 2018, 16:15 
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Nesty wrote:
Artemis wrote:
Hang on, Paul Baker resigned as a Director in May. Surely then the new Chairman could have acted to remove GJ if he'd wanted. I don't buy the it's PBs fault for standing in the way of the removal of GJ.


I started a thread a while back entitled "timing". Yes PB announced his retirement in May, but when did AW take over? we can speculate all we want but the "gap" when nobody seemed to be in charge has created this problem. If there was a push from other board members to get rid of GJ at the end of last season, then "they" (including AW) didnt push hard enough. Surely PB would have been aware of the unrest in the camp??

This mess was so avoidable, but now we are where we are, better decisions have to be made, and whoever gets the nod will have my backing, unless it is Buckle or Allen of course !!


Two Board members in the pub with PB the day after the sacking did not support the decision and felt it was baffling.

But as you say, let’s move on. It is club omnishambles and a f*ck up but seeking blame won’t help or solve anything and blame culture is detrimental to what we want to achieve. Club, players, fans, papermen and radio egos all need to help solve the situation and support the new manager and Chairman improve things.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018, 08:17 
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Talk of deflecting 'blame' for the unfolding shambles onto the previous chairman is preposterous. The current chairman would've taken charge and assumed executive power from the moment Paul Baker relinquished his role. It was therefore within his gift, not PB's, to make the decision whether to keep Gary or not; period.

However, as others have said, if is clearly counter productive to carry on chewing the fat and issuing blame for the spilt milk; we must move on and support the board and new manager, whoever it might be. To do otherwise would simply be destructive and pointless for anyone who really cares about the club.

P.S. I note OTC's (presumably unintentional) choice of the word 'impeachable'. How right that word appears to have been!


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018, 10:00 
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Well said vickeryc.

What we see of course, is pure politics. It’s much easier to blame the previous administration for failings so as to attempt to dodge any blame for current issues.

But this is a new beginning and we should all embrace it as a fresh start and it’s early enough in the season to take big strides.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018, 20:40 
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I've always had enormous respect for Paul Baker, its a shame he supported the wrong side. He was at Evesham for the City v Torquay match, to get his match fix, he's a football man.

From what I've heard, and the odd occasion I have met him, he seems like a thoroughly nice chap, and there aint a lot of those in football. You might believe that you have to have an edge to get on, and good guys aren't winners but is that just a received wisdom and cleche? I read enough negative comments on here about Dale Vince and Mark Cooper, so what is it you want. Maybe the way Paul Baker treated people at your club actually helped to attract players, retain them, and generally bring the best out of people.

You will miss him


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 06 Sep 2018, 20:49 
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SHANDY VOR wrote:
I've always had enormous respect for Paul Baker, its a shame he supported the wrong side. He was at Evesham for the City v Torquay match, to get his match fix, he's a football man.

From what I've heard, and the odd occasion I have met him, he seems like a thoroughly nice chap, and there aint a lot of those in football. You might believe that you have to have an edge to get on, and good guys aren't winners but is that just a received wisdom and cleche? I read enough negative comments on here about Dale Vince and Mark Cooper, so what is it you want. Maybe the way Paul Baker treated people at your club actually helped to attract players, retain them, and generally bring the best out of people.

You will miss him


Most of us do miss him. The fear for the last few years was always that when PB stood down the gaff would go to the dogs.


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 Post subject: Re: The end is nigh
 Post Posted: 07 Sep 2018, 17:02 
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SHANDY VOR wrote:
I've always had enormous respect for Paul Baker, its a shame he supported the wrong side. He was at Evesham for the City v Torquay match, to get his match fix, he's a football man.

From what I've heard, and the odd occasion I have met him, he seems like a thoroughly nice chap, and there aint a lot of those in football. You might believe that you have to have an edge to get on, and good guys aren't winners but is that just a received wisdom and cleche? I read enough negative comments on here about Dale Vince and Mark Cooper, so what is it you want. Maybe the way Paul Baker treated people at your club actually helped to attract players, retain them, and generally bring the best out of people.

You will miss him


Apart from when he turned in Gary Johnson's lapdog


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