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 Post subject: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 10:00 
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Sacked.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 11:05 
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No surprise there. They appear to be in a worse state than us.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 11:38 
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No surprise at all, not convinced he's a football league standard manager but regardless keeping Macc up was going to be a big ask for anyone.

The fact we only managed a draw up there speaks volumes for the state of the squad when we started the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 12:43 
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...as Robin said it was always going to be tough.
He worked miracles at Solihull and the same is now needed at Macclesfield. I like Yatesey as he is a realistic,hard- working manager. Pretty sure he was given a three year contract so let's see how that pans out.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 13:07 
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Outrageous! They should have stuck with him - he took a team into the play-offs a couple of times, we're frequently told.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 14:11 
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asl wrote:
Outrageous! They should have stuck with him - he took a team into the play-offs a couple of times, we're frequently told.


Must admit, I thought he had


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 14:23 
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Del Boy wrote:
asl wrote:
Outrageous! They should have stuck with him - he took a team into the play-offs a couple of times, we're frequently told.


Must admit, I thought he had
You're right, he did. That fact alone should be enough for a contract in perpetuity no matter how sh1t things get.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 14:26 
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asl wrote:
Del Boy wrote:
asl wrote:
Outrageous! They should have stuck with him - he took a team into the play-offs a couple of times, we're frequently told.


Must admit, I thought he had
You're right, he did. That fact alone should be enough for a contract in perpetuity no matter how sh1t things get.


Not sure anyone's saying that. Personally, I thought he did a brilliant job for us and then he was sacked when it got a little bit sh1t. Funny thing is it got a lot sh1tter under Buckle and Johnson.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 14:41 
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A lot shiter under GJ is at the very least debatable. Under GJ we romped the conference then had two season comparable to those of Yates which resulted in his sacking.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 16:43 
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It would have got "shitter" under Johnson if we were still in the conference. We're not, and for that reason to say it got "shitter" is quite honestly outrageous. Stale, maybe, in the end, and personally, I think its going to get worse now before it gets better.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 16:50 
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Robin wrote:
A lot shiter under GJ is at the very least debatable. Under GJ we romped the conference then had two season comparable to those of Yates which resulted in his sacking.


Indeed. In his four full seasons, Yates had two where we were fighting relegation.

I was amazed that the horrific second half of the season collapse in the Wes Thomas season didn’t result in a sacking - but then we got to Wembley the following season so Baker will say right decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 17:05 
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If you compare Yates' league record against Johnson's league record it's pretty obvious who was sh1tter. Yates was sacked because, after two seasons in the play-offs, some fans said anything but the play-offs was failure. Some of the same fans then seemed to think under Johnson anything but relegation was success. Bit strange but that's football fans for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 17:26 
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Del Boy wrote:
If you compare Yates' league record against Johnson's league record it's pretty obvious who was sh1tter. Yates was sacked because, after two seasons in the play-offs, some fans said anything but the play-offs was failure. Some of the same fans then seemed to think under Johnson anything but relegation was success. Bit strange but that's football fans for you.


We certainly didn’t succeed under GJ on the pitch in the League, other than the initial season where the target was to stay up.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 17:51 
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I'd be surprised if Johnson, Baker or anyone connected with the club said before the season that staying up by a few points and finishing fourth from bottom was considered success. This board was full of people confident of the play-offs or better.

I suppose it all depends on what individual people consider success and that's obviously hugely variable. What's not variable is comparing records and that says Yates was far, far more successful in the league than Johnson.

Anyway, that's all in the past. I just hope Duff is more successful than both of them. For that he will need time yet I see on other spreads the Johnson fan club are already out saying there's no improvement. Sad really.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 18:56 
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Del Boy wrote:
Yates was sacked because, after two seasons in the play-offs, some fans said anything but the play-offs was failure.


Really? Here was me thinking it started going shitty *well* before that second play-off... We were a side in complete free-fall by the time we played Northampton, having just managed to stay in the play-off zone. Nobody will ever convince me that that season, with *that* midfield was a 'success' - and, before you ask, no I don't see GJs two league seasons as 'successful', neither.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 19:45 
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asl wrote:
Del Boy wrote:
Yates was sacked because, after two seasons in the play-offs, some fans said anything but the play-offs was failure.


Really? Here was me thinking it started going shitty *well* before that second play-off... We were a side in complete free-fall by the time we played Northampton, having just managed to stay in the play-off zone. Nobody will ever convince me that that season, with *that* midfield was a 'success' - and, before you ask, no I don't see GJs two league seasons as 'successful', neither.


I've heard this theory many times before. Always quick to blame the manager for failing to get a team promoted with 'that' midfield. Never a mention who signed the players in 'that' midfield.

Yates' recruitment was as good as any manager we've ever had, in my opinion. Johnson one of the worst.

I'd be pretty happy if Duff were to build a team as good and fail to get promoted with defeat in the play-offs.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 19:51 
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Del Boy wrote:
I'd be surprised if Johnson, Baker or anyone connected with the club said before the season that staying up by a few points and finishing fourth from bottom was considered success. This board was full of people confident of the play-offs or better.

I suppose it all depends on what individual people consider success and that's obviously hugely variable. What's not variable is comparing records and that says Yates was far, far more successful in the league than Johnson.

Anyway, that's all in the past. I just hope Duff is more successful than both of them. For that he will need time yet I see on other spreads the Johnson fan club are already out saying there's no improvement. Sad really.


The brief after relegation was get up and stay up. Successfully achieved, with a consolidated profit over the two seasons to go with it. Successfully delivered the brief.

I personally hoped for better. And the subsequent seasons were failure. But you cannot argue he didn’t get us up and keep us up which was the target.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 20:02 
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Del Boy wrote:
asl wrote:
Del Boy wrote:
Yates was sacked because, after two seasons in the play-offs, some fans said anything but the play-offs was failure.


Really? Here was me thinking it started going shitty *well* before that second play-off... We were a side in complete free-fall by the time we played Northampton, having just managed to stay in the play-off zone. Nobody will ever convince me that that season, with *that* midfield was a 'success' - and, before you ask, no I don't see GJs two league seasons as 'successful', neither.


I've heard this theory many times before. Always quick to blame the manager for failing to get a team promoted with 'that' midfield. Never a mention who signed the players in 'that' midfield.

Yates' recruitment was as good as any manager we've ever had, in my opinion. Johnson one of the worst.

I'd be pretty happy if Duff were to build a team as good and fail to get promoted with defeat in the play-offs.


CBB, Richards, Taylor, Gornell, etc.

All managers have failures and success in the transfer market. I defended Yates the same I did Johnson. On paper there was no reason why CBB wouldn’t adapt to League football like Sido, and if anything Richards came with more credentials than Penn. For whatever reason some work out and some don’t, and depends on many more intangible variables than experience or quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 20:27 
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asl wrote:
Really? Here was me thinking it started going shitty *well* before that second play-off... We were a side in complete free-fall by the time we played Northampton, having just managed to stay in the play-off zone. Nobody will ever convince me that that season, with *that* midfield was a 'success' - and, before you ask, no I don't see GJs two league seasons as 'successful', neither.


I don't think that rings true asl - on the last day of the season, if we had bettered Rotherham's result we would have been promoted automatically. Unfortunately, they beat Aldershot and we could only draw with eventual playoff winners - Bradford.

In fact, a quick check shows we won 3 of our last 5 games, won 7 of our last 15 (losing 4). In that run we beat Rotherham (runners-up) 3-0, the eventual Champions, Gillingham, 1-0 and the team who beat us in the playoffs, 1-0. In fact we played all of the rest of the top 7 in that run and only lost away to Vale and Burton.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 08 Oct 2018, 21:49 
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I don't think he's a great manager at all, average at this level, I actually thought he would keep Macclesfield up but hey ho, we took an age to sack him when we should have parted in that summer but we bottled it like we always do and coincidentally we should have parted in the summer with Johnson but somebody bottled it upstairs and now we have a mess that Duff has to clear up.

That said can't fault his passion and there were good times and some good football played but unfortunately this was also followed by too many thrashings away from home and games where the players put in no effort, I still remember Plymouth away when they were struggling and we lost 2-1 I think and there was absolutely no effort from the players, for a team that was third at the time you at least expect effort, we had none it was baffling like so many of Yates's games, I still remember Carter's performance at Plymouth too, I don't think he left the centre circle once, absolute spectator at times he was.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018, 11:57 
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Those two season under Yates where we reached the play offs are his only successes, he had two and half season struggling here, a full season struggling with Crawley and now Macclesfield too. The one season where it just clicked we were superb and he should be recognised for that but I suspect he will never manage in the football league again now.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018, 13:53 
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Question is whether he did better than he should have done with the resources he had available, or has built a legacy at the clubs. I suspect the answer to the latter is no. The former, with us for a season and a half, yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018, 14:45 
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It's worth remembering the two seasons we made the play offs he had £500k investment to play with (granted he split it over two and a bit years). So he was well back financially here although he did generate some of funds himself through our cup run to Spurs away.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018, 15:06 
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Good point Robin. Whilst its obviously a lot of money, how does it compare to the money that some money bags clubs throw around?


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Yates
 Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018, 19:49 
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Robin wrote:
Those two season under Yates where we reached the play offs are his only successes, he had two and half season struggling here, a full season struggling with Crawley and now Macclesfield too. The one season where it just clicked we were superb and he should be recognised for that but I suspect he will never manage in the football league again now.


I daresay Solihull Moors fans would have a different opinion, and he didn't do too badly at Kiddy either, missing out on the Conference playoffs by 2 points the season before he joined us. In fact, he had a win record of 42.6% with them, which is more than decent considering they were fighting relegation when he took over.

The startling fact of the matter though is that in the last decade (assuming we don't suddenly go on a great run), in terms of league position his worst season in charge was better than anyone else who has managed the club (we finished 17th under both Yates and Johnson, but Yates earned 4 more points).

I do agree he won't get another League club, and I think he's doomed to be known as a nearly man for time eternal, but he'll definitely manage in the Conference again.


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