Hi guys.
I thought tozer should’ve been motm yesterday, won an astounding amount of headers and in first 20 minutes made interception after interception as Yeovil had by far the upper hand.
However...
...we look very poor at the back. I think we need to play 3 centre halves as broom and hussey are our best two attacking threats, with a flat four they’ll be pinned back a bit more.
I’d suggest that the key for next season is THREE new centre halves. Forster isn’t good enough; Mullins unfortunately doesn’t seem like the answer; and if I’m really critical Boyle has only been the best of a bad job. Tozer looks like a CM to me, or a centre half alongside two very good defenders.
Wing back we are fine; midfield we need a couple and at least one up top. But the key is getting three defenders who love to defend (and don’t let goal kicks sail over their heads into their own penalty area time after time).
If anyone can find them duff can, it’s olaywrs like him we need
Ben Tozer and the rest of the defence
Moderators: Admin, Ralph, asl, Robin
If there's any part of the pitch MD is going to get sorted out, you'd think it would be the defence. Personally, I think our current first choice back three, (Boyle, Tozer Forster) isn't too bad at all. Stick Long in at RWB and that back 5 is ok, although you would ideally want to improve it in the summer. The midfield in front of them has been non-existent for a lot of the season so I think they've done ok, really. Mullins was our best defender earlier in the season but can't get into the team when everyone's fit now.
Broom into the role that Maddox is generally wasting when Long comes back, too, would be a good improvement to the midfield, especially as he has shown that he CAN get back and make a tackle.
Broom into the role that Maddox is generally wasting when Long comes back, too, would be a good improvement to the midfield, especially as he has shown that he CAN get back and make a tackle.
Maddox has improved. Not good enough, but he is finding a lovely bit of space between the lines. Not sure broom best suited there
Dawson certainly gives us a bit of go forward when he comes on. You got to love his attitude
I disagree about Forster, he is really poor both on (but more vitally) OFF the ball
Dawson certainly gives us a bit of go forward when he comes on. You got to love his attitude
I disagree about Forster, he is really poor both on (but more vitally) OFF the ball
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Cheltenhamshire10
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I actually like Forster and think he's needed back there. A bit like Boka Freeman back in the day.
Feel like any first ball I expect Forster to get to which we haven't had for a while. We look more prone to a bouncing ball when he's not around.
But.... I cringe if I ever see him put a cross in, or attempt anything than a simple 10 yard pass.
Feel like any first ball I expect Forster to get to which we haven't had for a while. We look more prone to a bouncing ball when he's not around.
But.... I cringe if I ever see him put a cross in, or attempt anything than a simple 10 yard pass.
get that feeling when he crosses the half way line tbhCheltenhamshire10 wrote:I actually like Forster and think he's needed back there. A bit like Boka Freeman back in the day.
Feel like any first ball I expect Forster to get to which we haven't had for a while. We look more prone to a bouncing ball when he's not around.
But.... I cringe if I ever see him put a cross in, or attempt anything than a simple 10 yard pass.
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Lord Elpuz
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I like Jordan Forster. He’s the hard man of the defence who clearly relishes going up against big burly opposition forwards. He’s always detailed to pick them up at set pieces and rarely lets us down in those situations. Opposition forwards quickly realise they’re not going to bully Forster. He’s a real ‘guard dog’ at the back and I enjoy watching him tussling with the player he’s marking.
I totally get that we would like more quality all-rounders, but those players are destined for higher leagues. At our level we have to recognise that our recruits will just do some of their tasks well and that they may not always be consistent - but they’ve all got a particular attribute or they would not have got this far in football. I recognise Forster for the stuff he does well.
I totally get that we would like more quality all-rounders, but those players are destined for higher leagues. At our level we have to recognise that our recruits will just do some of their tasks well and that they may not always be consistent - but they’ve all got a particular attribute or they would not have got this far in football. I recognise Forster for the stuff he does well.
For those who like Forster, next game you go to watch him for ten minutes. Then feed back.
He plays five yards behind the other two, meaning we’ve shipped loads of goals by a half-decent striker just playing behind Tozer (who naturally assumes the striker will be offside).
He’s also a liability with the ball. He may be a ‘hard man’ but if that qualifies him as a good players I could go find a few cheaper options!!
He plays five yards behind the other two, meaning we’ve shipped loads of goals by a half-decent striker just playing behind Tozer (who naturally assumes the striker will be offside).
He’s also a liability with the ball. He may be a ‘hard man’ but if that qualifies him as a good players I could go find a few cheaper options!!
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Lord Elpuz
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Not really fair to set Forster up as anyone’s scapegoat or whipping boy, we’ve had several players vilified over the years, always at right or left of defence. It’s a difficult position, as a lot is expected of them getting forward and then recovering to defence, and if something goes awry, a goal scoring opportunity usually occurs.
The only way ‘feedback’ on Forster would be fair, is if the same analysis required by Ben3 was applied to every CTFC player in the same game. Would it be fair then to compare a fluffed goalscoring opportunity or lost possession by a forward/attacking midfielder and make it as culpable an error as for a defender making a mistake?
Forster was no worse than any CTFC player on Tuesday night v Yeovil. Varney and Dawson were the only ones with any credit for consistency and quality in that game.
The only way ‘feedback’ on Forster would be fair, is if the same analysis required by Ben3 was applied to every CTFC player in the same game. Would it be fair then to compare a fluffed goalscoring opportunity or lost possession by a forward/attacking midfielder and make it as culpable an error as for a defender making a mistake?
Forster was no worse than any CTFC player on Tuesday night v Yeovil. Varney and Dawson were the only ones with any credit for consistency and quality in that game.
...ok so at he beginning of the season Tozer was rated as useless-now he's playing well.
Dawson has had two good cameos against 10 men and he's now flavour of the month.
Forster is now rubbish because he's had a couple of iffy games.
Maddox has gone off the boil since his injury-he's rubbish too.
We're a bog standard team in League 2 so it follows that we have that standard of players.
There will be 50+ matches per season-are players supposed to be great in every match that they play?
Their form will fluctuate throughout the season.
Some people should wake up and smell the coffee.
Dawson has had two good cameos against 10 men and he's now flavour of the month.
Forster is now rubbish because he's had a couple of iffy games.
Maddox has gone off the boil since his injury-he's rubbish too.
We're a bog standard team in League 2 so it follows that we have that standard of players.
There will be 50+ matches per season-are players supposed to be great in every match that they play?
Their form will fluctuate throughout the season.
Some people should wake up and smell the coffee.
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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CTFC defenders can never win. Most of our fullbacks in last ten years are criticised for being good going forward but poor defensively, or good in tackle but too slow, or quick but poor positionally. And centre backs, either quick but can’t jump, or good defensively but poor distribution, or good on the ball but a liability at the back.
Fans need to decide what they want! Do we want defenders who can defend or ones who can attack. Any who can do both will not be in League Two. Even the top four Premier League sides have some defenders who can’t defend and some who can’t pass.
Personally, I am pleased we have Forster at the back for his defensive strength.
Fans need to decide what they want! Do we want defenders who can defend or ones who can attack. Any who can do both will not be in League Two. Even the top four Premier League sides have some defenders who can’t defend and some who can’t pass.
Personally, I am pleased we have Forster at the back for his defensive strength.
Yes we all have to recognise the weaknesses of players at this level. I think when he stays at the back, he is no better or worse than any of the rest of our back line (personally thought that new young chap on the left was a disaster waiting to happen on Tuesday, but he managed to just retrieve himself form a hole at times). It is when we include Mr F in an attack that he seems 'out of his depth' or maybe his comfort zone. Agree it's not his problem, if that is what he is being told to do. However, when attacking, my heart does sink a bit when I see the ball heading his way. I know its going to slow the attack down somewhat
I also don't get any joy from seeing JF on the ball, especially in the oppo half but, on the other hand, I was desperate to see Broom or anyone else cross the ball in at times and they refused to, before eventually laying the ball back to Forster to cross. The others should take some responsibility.
Lord Elpuz, you’ve either misread or misunderstood my messages.
He’s not a scapegoat or whipping boy - i started by saying we need three new centre halves as none are good enough. I also didn’t base this judgement on one game - he’s been awful since before his terrible injury.
Oh well, everyone has a different opinion. I take it those sticking up for him we’re the same who screamed for manny onarise to play and how good he was...
As I said, watch him for five minutes next game. Then come back to me
He’s not a scapegoat or whipping boy - i started by saying we need three new centre halves as none are good enough. I also didn’t base this judgement on one game - he’s been awful since before his terrible injury.
Oh well, everyone has a different opinion. I take it those sticking up for him we’re the same who screamed for manny onarise to play and how good he was...
As I said, watch him for five minutes next game. Then come back to me
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Cheltenhamshire10
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To me a good defence is complimentary.
Tozer/Forster +1 other compliment each other well. Let Forster have a tussle with any big strikers as I feel like defensively he will come out on top and not let us get dominated by a good string striker. But when we have the ball in possession the way the system works I want Tozer coming out of defence with it rather than Forster.
If we had Banks back there that back line would be the best. I rate Forster above Boka Freeman for what he does.
Horses for courses. If the opposition had 2 quick strikers and played the ball on the ground I'd drop Forster, but he is our best defender for certain situations. We'd miss him if he wasn't there in some games.
Tozer/Forster +1 other compliment each other well. Let Forster have a tussle with any big strikers as I feel like defensively he will come out on top and not let us get dominated by a good string striker. But when we have the ball in possession the way the system works I want Tozer coming out of defence with it rather than Forster.
If we had Banks back there that back line would be the best. I rate Forster above Boka Freeman for what he does.
Horses for courses. If the opposition had 2 quick strikers and played the ball on the ground I'd drop Forster, but he is our best defender for certain situations. We'd miss him if he wasn't there in some games.
Is there a shout for having Tozer on the right of the back three and Forster in the middle, then? Would we prefer Tozer putting in crosses and also being in a better position to take more throw-ins? Or has he not got as much speed and his height better suited for the middle?
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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The Robins Trust could turn OTC’s pathetically laughable delusion to our advantage.
A stencil of his avatar on a white t-shirt with a red circle and line through (like no smoking symbol) and sell them for a profit.
Or maybe a new half time game called “Has Tom Newman Gotcha?”. £5 to enter for one person on the pitch by HT raffle draw. The man in mic reads out athree nonsensical statements are read out, two of which are made up and one is a genuine OTC statement and the participant has to guess which it is to win a free match ticket.
A stencil of his avatar on a white t-shirt with a red circle and line through (like no smoking symbol) and sell them for a profit.
Or maybe a new half time game called “Has Tom Newman Gotcha?”. £5 to enter for one person on the pitch by HT raffle draw. The man in mic reads out athree nonsensical statements are read out, two of which are made up and one is a genuine OTC statement and the participant has to guess which it is to win a free match ticket.
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Lord Elpuz
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- Joined: 20 Jul 2011, 19:35
Not sure what this has to do with “Ben Tozer and the rest of the defence” - but it’s brilliant. I want one of those T shirts and a years worth of the ‘Guess the Gotcha’.RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:The Robins Trust could turn OTC’s pathetically laughable delusion to our advantage.
A stencil of his avatar on a white t-shirt with a red circle and line through (like no smoking symbol) and sell them for a profit.
Or maybe a new half time game called “Has Tom Newman Gotcha?”. £5 to enter for one person on the pitch by HT raffle draw. The man in mic reads out athree nonsensical statements are read out, two of which are made up and one is a genuine OTC statement and the participant has to guess which it is to win a free match ticket.
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Lord Elpuz
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- Joined: 20 Jul 2011, 19:35
I agree with the majority of your posts on TRN, Ben3, which I always read carefully, as I did this latest one. I didn’t misunderstand it. I was merely pointing out that encouraging people to observe errors by Forster would make him a target for the very people who, in the past, have over-criticised many of our former right and left backs. I tried to explain that, yes, Forster makes mistakes - as do the majority of our players - but I also explained, and others have also observed, that we should judge players (including Forster) on what they bring to the team, rather than just pointing out faults. We don’t live in a perfect world, sadly. I could well watch Forster for 5 minutes as you recommend, but do bear in mind that there are 18 groups of 5 minutes in a game, and I could easily choose one of his inspired 5 minutesBen3 wrote:Lord Elpuz, you’ve either misread or misunderstood my messages.
He’s not a scapegoat or whipping boy - i started by saying we need three new centre halves as none are good enough. I also didn’t base this judgement on one game - he’s been awful since before his terrible injury.
Oh well, everyone has a different opinion. I take it those sticking up for him we’re the same who screamed for manny onarise to play and how good he was...
As I said, watch him for five minutes next game. Then come back to me
Unmmmm.....you misread my post. I didn’t say watch him for errors. I said watch him for ten minutes/five minutes.
Anyone who knows anything about football will be able to make their own judgement then. Rather than basing it on how much he looks like a ‘hard man’. He’s clearly a very poor player but if people prefer we can play a collective game of ‘let’s pretend’.
Bring back Manny, the saviour of ctfc !!!! Round we go again...
Anyone who knows anything about football will be able to make their own judgement then. Rather than basing it on how much he looks like a ‘hard man’. He’s clearly a very poor player but if people prefer we can play a collective game of ‘let’s pretend’.
Bring back Manny, the saviour of ctfc !!!! Round we go again...
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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- Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
I suggest you only instruct us to plan to watch Forster for a maximum of 8.18 minutes. Any longer than that and it is impossible to watch each player for and equal amount of time. And if you are not asking us to scrutinise each player equally then by definition you are singling out players for special treatment.Ben3 wrote:Unmmmm.....you misread my post. I didn’t say watch him for errors. I said watch him for ten minutes/five minutes.
Anyone who knows anything about football will be able to make their own judgement then. Rather than basing it on how much he looks like a ‘hard man’. He’s clearly a very poor player but if people prefer we can play a collective game of ‘let’s pretend’.
Bring back Manny, the saviour of ctfc !!!! Round we go again...
I also suggest you recommend that we only watch each player for 8 minutes whilst doing their main role. So watching Forster for eight minutes when defending, from corners and long balls and whatever. Otherwise, if you scrutinise him going forward for 8 mins then obviously he will look less good than and exciting than Addai for example. Same way you wouldn’t base an asssesment of Addai based on watching eight minutes of him marking opposing players in our box when we are defending.
Again, if you are not suggesting this, and are judging Forster by different criteria to other players then again Lord Elpuz is again correct in his fear you are on individuals for special scrutiny.
In my view, targeting individual players, whether through overrating/sycophancy/messiah complex OR through boo-boy/scapegoating/special scrutiny, is an unsavoury and insidious tendency of a minority of people who attend games and is an anathema to decent fans.
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Lord Elpuz
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If only you knew ...Ben3 wrote:.
.... Anyone who knows anything about football will be able to make their own judgement then.
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Lord Elpuz
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- Joined: 20 Jul 2011, 19:35
Spot on !RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:I suggest you only instruct us to plan to watch Forster for a maximum of 8.18 minutes. Any longer than that and it is impossible to watch each player for and equal amount of time. And if you are not asking us to scrutinise each player equally then by definition you are singling out players for special treatment.Ben3 wrote:Unmmmm.....you misread my post. I didn’t say watch him for errors. I said watch him for ten minutes/five minutes.
Anyone who knows anything about football will be able to make their own judgement then. Rather than basing it on how much he looks like a ‘hard man’. He’s clearly a very poor player but if people prefer we can play a collective game of ‘let’s pretend’.
Bring back Manny, the saviour of ctfc !!!! Round we go again...
I also suggest you recommend that we only watch each player for 8 minutes whilst doing their main role. So watching Forster for eight minutes when defending, from corners and long balls and whatever. Otherwise, if you scrutinise him going forward for 8 mins then obviously he will look less good than and exciting than Addai for example. Same way you wouldn’t base an asssesment of Addai based on watching eight minutes of him marking opposing players in our box when we are defending.
Again, if you are not suggesting this, and are judging Forster by different criteria to other players then again Lord Elpuz is again correct in his fear you are on individuals for special scrutiny.
In my view, targeting individual players, whether through overrating/sycophancy/messiah complex OR through boo-boy/scapegoating/special scrutiny, is an unsavoury and insidious tendency of a minority of people who attend games and is an anathema to decent fans.