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 Post subject: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 18 Mar 2020, 19:15 
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Some posters will recall that during the previous elections I have been critical of the Conservative’s claims to support small businesses when I believe that they favour monopolies, big businesses and party donors.

Let’s see which companies the government bails out (my prediction is airlines, train monopolies, and insurance) and which they let go to the wall (my prediction is independent businesses, especially in smaller towns).

If they are the party of business then the thriving artisan bakers, coffee roasters, brunch cafes and micropubs in my area which have been growing in number and always busy will be aided to survive any lockdown or advice to customers to stay away. Many have already switched to delivery and take away however that might not be enough.

If they die it will be a travesty. Time for Conservatives to show they really support small businesses.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 19 Mar 2020, 08:37 
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And will loans / grants etc be ringfenced to safeguard jobs and keep businesses solvent, or will they be allowed to be used to top up dividends and bonuses.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 19 Mar 2020, 17:22 
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I am ashamed to say I am with you on thsi as well. There must be some connection between the money getting haned out and rebates / holidays being given. And with protection of employment. It must not be easy for the owners to take the money, while at the same time making people redundant.
The obama method of just sending teh peple cheques, may not be the correct way of doing things, unless it was means tested. Maybe some payment based on NI contributions, so that those on say, £100,00+ get a similar payment to those on £40,000 - as an example. Then linking that to the loans/grants being given to owners. So that both happen or just NI payback happens.
Am sure financial wizards can come up with something a bit tighter :)
I hope in days to come this will be addressed, because once redundancies become the vogue, they will become the norm.
Fully appreciate that there is no previous blueprints to go back to for this nightmare scenario. Which makes it even more important that left, right, middle , Labour, Cons, Republican, Unionist etc etc put all differences to the side and crack on with saving lives and saving the economy


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 21:27 
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80% of wages paid for staff of businesses told to close. Some saved from the heap.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 22:37 
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backdated to 01/03. So there is no need for anyone to be on the heap


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 21 Mar 2020, 19:18 
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EasyJet asking for Government bailout whilst also paying out £170m dividend and nearly £60m to one shareholder alone. Erm.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 21 Mar 2020, 20:12 
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Pissed me off too but apparently the dividend was voted before it kicked off so not sure on legalities of stopping it now.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 11 Apr 2020, 08:58 
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Tesco. £585m tax bailout from government to help with crisis. Then paid out £635m in dividends. How is that allowed to happen?


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 11 Apr 2020, 15:13 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Tesco. £585m tax bailout from government to help with crisis. Then paid out £635m in dividends. How is that allowed to happen?
I’m guessing it depends on the ex-dividend date and it may well be a legality that once it’s voted it has to be paid.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 11:14 
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Bank dividends got cancelled after the ex-div date.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 12:02 
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OK, wasn’t sure the legalities.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 13:38 
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Yes, the Tesco vote by shareholders was only in the last couple of weeks as well, I think. Might be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 15:53 
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21st May was Tesco. Then again the ex dividend date is only the date at which you have to have held shares to qualify for the dividend.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 07:09 
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Interesting move in Denmark:

“The government also said that companies which pay out dividends, buy back own shares or are registered in tax havens won’t be eligible for any of the aid programs, which now amount to a total of 400 billion kroner, when including loans and guarantees.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... 15-billion


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 11:26 
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Agree re the dividends and share by back. However, the tax haven bit is just lazy. It is up to the governments to bring in laws that clearly distinguish between tax avoidance and tax evasion. If these companies are doing nothing illegal, I can see no reason why they should be punished. Lazy government


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 11:37 
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Ihearye wrote:
Agree re the dividends and share by back. However, the tax haven bit is just lazy. It is up to the governments to bring in laws that clearly distinguish between tax avoidance and tax evasion. If these companies are doing nothing illegal, I can see no reason why they should be punished. Lazy government


I don’t think it is punishment, it is quid pro quo.

It is indeed perfectly legal to use tax havens and opt out of contributing to the national treasury and society. The flip side is when the treasury and tax from society is given out as support, only those who chose to pay in get the pay out. That’s the moral and social contract regardless of the legality.

Sends a clear message to businesses. By all means opt out of society and use tax havens to avoid contributing as is your legal right, but then don’t expect that society to bail you out.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 13:17 
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That will never happen here.

We are all business and no society.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 20 Apr 2020, 15:16 
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SHANDY VOR wrote:
That will never happen here.

We are all business and no society.


Yup. Britain a very much “something for nothing” country. People vote for lower taxes then get angry when public services are too underfunded to cope during crises like we have now. People vote for businesses to be able to pay low wages then wonder why employees have to be given benefits from the taxpayer to afford a room and food, rather than those wage requirement being covered by huge profits and dividends.

I see a Richard Branson is complaining he needs a loan for Virgin Atlantic. Whilst Virgin Trains have been passing through taxpayer subsidies to dividend for years, paying dividends whilst saying they needed subsidies to avoid making losses.

It is some weird mix of ideology: allow private sector to take out huge dividends from loss making monopolies who don’t pay any tax save those businesses and top up wages with taxpayer subsidies in a crisis. No risk at all for big business investors, who know they get returns even from loss making businesses and know that the state will bail them out in a crisis.

Meanwhile, small business investors risk their livelihoods to start-up and compete on the free market and don’t enjoy all the tax breaks and bailouts the monopolies do.

One positive from this situation is that all the big businesses are not bailed out, collapse, and then an actual competitive free market where all players are made to play by the rules emerges in its place. Might not suite the school tie oligarchs in Government, but for free-marketeers for me (I would actually scrap corporation tax or at least make it very low) it gives hope that we may see a proper free and competitive market on its place.


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 Post subject: Re: True test of the ‘pro-business’ claims
 Post Posted: 22 Apr 2020, 10:43 
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Amusing read about Richard Branson’s latest begging to the U.K. taxpayers (of which he has chosen not to be one).

“ Motorboating enthusiast Richard Branson is playing a particularly idiosyncratic game of Monopoly. He would like to mortgage his private Caribbean island. In return, you, the taxpayer, have to buy him Mayfair and Park Lane, all the greens, all the yellows, all the reds, and stick a hotel on every one of them. Also, if Richard lands on Super Tax or Income Tax he doesn’t pay them. And if he gets the Community Chest saying “pay hospital fees”, he refuses and sues the hospital. The only bright side is that he no longer operates out of any of the stations.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... on-bailout


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