Don't you think this is more sensible...

Malabus · 01 Jun 2016, 04:48

..than having uncontrollable mass and disruptive immigration.

EU referendum: Vote Leave sets out immigration plan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36419815" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#VOTELEAVE

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 01 Jun 2016, 10:53

"To gain the right to work, economic migrants will have to be suitable for the job in question":

Be willing to work for less than minimum wage (after lodgings/uniform/gang master fees taken off) and live 5 in a room in East London or in a bedsit in a town closest to the farm / food factory?

Shade · 01 Jun 2016, 10:59

I have to say, at this point I have yet to hear anyone that I know say they're voting Remain, apart from my dad. Even the ones on the fence have started saying they've decided they're going to vote Leave.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 01 Jun 2016, 11:39

Shade wrote:I have to say, at this point I have yet to hear anyone that I know say they're voting Remain, apart from my dad. Even the ones on the fence have started saying they've decided they're going to vote Leave.

Opposite amongst everyone I know.

Malabus · 01 Jun 2016, 11:50

Shade wrote:I have to say, at this point I have yet to hear anyone that I know say they're voting Remain, apart from my dad. Even the ones on the fence have started saying they've decided they're going to vote Leave.

Great to hear, Shade.

01 Jun 2016, 12:41

I'd say my impression is that friends & family are split pretty much 50/50 on the subject. I've singularly failed to be convinced by any of the arguments, for or against and, right now, I'd vote to stay simply because the disruption and turmoil that will doubtlessly be caused with absolutely no guarantees that anything will be better in the end. Better the Devil you know, and all that.

Red Duke · 01 Jun 2016, 16:36

I heard the first sensible claim from the Leave Out campaign. They could take 5% VAT off the cost of gas and electricity. The rest of the claims from both sides have been pure political rhetoric so far.

01 Jun 2016, 16:56

Red Duke wrote:They could take 5% VAT off the cost of gas and electricity

They probably *could* - but *will* they...? In any case, I'm pretty sure that was only going to be for certain groups - the elderly, disabled, etc. Presumably means-tested, too. How do you prevent whichever government is in power at the time of the next crisis adding/increasing VAT on the things that are effectively protected at the moment by virtue of being controlled by the EU?

It's a bit like replacing the farming subsidies: I'm sure they *could*...

Malabus · 01 Jun 2016, 17:44

asl wrote:I'd say my impression is that friends & family are split pretty much 50/50 on the subject. I've singularly failed to be convinced by any of the arguments, for or against and, right now, I'd vote to stay simply because the disruption and turmoil that will doubtlessly be caused with absolutely no guarantees that anything will be better in the end. Better the Devil you know, and all that.

But look at the current mess the EU is in and the demands and rules we have to abide and it's expensive to be a member of this club. Theres your convincing!! #VoteLeave

Red Duke · 01 Jun 2016, 18:24

asl wrote:
Red Duke wrote:They could take 5% VAT off the cost of gas and electricity
They probably *could* - but *will* they...? In any case, I'm pretty sure that was only going to be for certain groups - the elderly, disabled, etc. Presumably means-tested, too. How do you prevent whichever government is in power at the time of the next crisis adding/increasing VAT on the things that are effectively protected at the moment by virtue of being controlled by the EU?

It's a bit like replacing the farming subsidies: I'm sure they *could*...

These are in the very small group of things that definitely could be done but all other stuff they talk about is just wishful thinking and they have no idea if whether they could ever be implemented.

Malabus · 01 Jun 2016, 18:26

Keep on topic.
If you want 400,000/500,000 invading immigrants every year then vote to remain....but you must be some fool

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 01 Jun 2016, 19:03

Re: EU rules, UK i still one of the most unregulated economies in the world despite EU regulation.

Mal, the verb is 'migrating' not 'invading'. As for your numbers, no more or less guesswork than all the other stats both sides band about.

confused.com · 01 Jun 2016, 19:08

The most convincing argument I have heard was a simple question. If the referendum in a few weeks time, was to join the EU, what would you vote?

Red Duke · 01 Jun 2016, 19:23

Malabus wrote:Keep on topic.
If you want 400,000/500,000 invading immigrants every year then vote to remain....but you must be some fool

I am not a fool. I believe the title of this topic is "Don't you think this is more sensible" and I wrote about something regarding Brexit that was sensible. Your vitriolic response is hardly persuasive to someone is who is in the group of the undecided voters.

Malabus · 01 Jun 2016, 19:35

Red Duke wrote:
Malabus wrote:Keep on topic.
If you want 400,000/500,000 invading immigrants every year then vote to remain....but you must be some fool
I am not a fool. I believe the title of this topic is "Don't you think this is more sensible" and I wrote about something regarding Brexit that was sensible. Your vitriolic response is hardly persuasive to someone is who is in the group of the undecided voters.

Wasn't referring you as a fool. I was generalising.
People must be told that if you remain then this country is finished : Uncontrolled migration mostly (apart from the EU) from Islamic countries that are forcing their obvious agendas into our democracy and soon constitution.
#VoteLeave

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 01 Jun 2016, 20:03

Mal, given that the Muslim migrants who you despise are not from EU nations then it doesn't make a difference if we leave: refugees and asylum seekers will still make their way here the same way they do now.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 01 Jun 2016, 20:10

confused.com wrote:The most convincing argument I have heard was a simple question. If the referendum in a few weeks time, was to join the EU, what would you vote?

That would depend on what trade situation we were in.

Given I doubt we would be in a situation where we had free trade but did not contribute to the EU it is hard to compare.

Malabus · 01 Jun 2016, 20:21

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Mal, given that the Muslim migrants who you despise are not from EU nations then it doesn't make a difference if we leave: refugees and asylum seekers will still make their way here the same way they do now.

Ha ha ha....plenty of Melkel's Mohamadians applying for #EU citizen now and the near future...AND the Islamic invasion of Europe is still very active.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 01 Jun 2016, 21:39

You really are a nutjob aren't you Mal. Luckily you are just a football forum nobody (a poundshop Superkoz) so won't actually cause anyone any direct harm

confused.com · 02 Jun 2016, 06:25

RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
confused.com wrote:The most convincing argument I have heard was a simple question. If the referendum in a few weeks time, was to join the EU, what would you vote?
That would depend on what trade situation we were in.

Given I doubt we would be in a situation where we had free trade but did not contribute to the EU it is hard to compare.

RCS, as posted elsewhere. Would I want to be signing up to share the high youth unemployment of large parts of Europe - no. Would I want to be signing up to be paying off Greek / Italian debt - no. Would I want to be involved in any kind of appeasement to the Turkish regime - no. Would I want to be impacted by EU open borders policy - no.

As for free trade, it is a big world and the EU has a lot more to gain re free trade than, as net importers. we have. Who knows, maybe slightly more expensive EU produced goods could make us think more about buying British, supporting UK farmers, fisheries, industries ?
No doubt there will be a period of realignment. But ............ c'est la vie

Malabus · 02 Jun 2016, 07:48

Great post post,confused.
Don't expect a realistic and sensible post from RCS.

RegencyCheltenhamSpa · 02 Jun 2016, 09:05

confused.com wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
confused.com wrote:The most convincing argument I have heard was a simple question. If the referendum in a few weeks time, was to join the EU, what would you vote?
That would depend on what trade situation we were in.

Given I doubt we would be in a situation where we had free trade but did not contribute to the EU it is hard to compare.
RCS, as posted elsewhere. Would I want to be signing up to share the high youth unemployment of large parts of Europe - no. Would I want to be signing up to be paying off Greek / Italian debt - no. Would I want to be involved in any kind of appeasement to the Turkish regime - no. Would I want to be impacted by EU open borders policy - no.

As for free trade, it is a big world and the EU has a lot more to gain re free trade than, as net importers. we have. Who knows, maybe slightly more expensive EU produced goods could make us think more about buying British, supporting UK farmers, fisheries, industries ?
No doubt there will be a period of realignment. But ............ c'est la vie

Yes, fair points and well argued. Good food for thought for some of those who are on the fence.

Note: I am not encouraging or supporting either side on this forum and am just trying to tease out more depth in the arguments as people are sick of sound bites and hypetbole from both sides.