You were all clearly warned.

[Malabus]

Open borders for the Turks. I expect chaos and mayhem especially for the poor Germans who have had it extremely tough under Angela Merkel in recent years.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/713 ... -next-year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Express article.... so means we can rule out Turkey being given EU Visas for a long time yet.

Can't believe someone like Mal still pays any credence to what the Express says.

[Circa 1887]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09 ... n-project/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[confused.com]

Telegraph article.... so means we can rule out Turkey being given EU Visas for a long time yet.

Can't believe someone like Circa 1887 still pays any credence to what the Telegraph says.

Please feel free to edit and insert whichever newspaper title may be appropriate at the time

[Red Duke]

I have just been to Germany recently and one interesting fact that I wasn't aware of is the falling birth rate in the country. One of the reasons behind Merkel's thinking maybe that they need more people in the country to repeat the success of growing their economy through Gastarbeiters.

[Malabus]

I have just been to Germany recently and one interesting fact that I wasn't aware of is the falling birth rate in the country. One of the reasons behind Merkel's thinking maybe that they need more people in the country to repeat the success of growing their economy through Gastarbeiters.

You don't dilute the country with Asia/African immigration to increase the population, that will create civil unrest and Germans seeing their country and culture fading away.
Multiculturalism is a disaster it doesn't work; we are a tribal species, like it or not.
Multiculturalism = white genocide.

[asl]

You don't dilute the country with Asia/African immigration to increase the population, that will create civil unrest and Germans seeing their country and culture fading away.

Perhaps they should try imposing a rule that only pure-bred, tall, muscular, slim, fair-haired Germans are allowed to breed with members of the opposite sex who could be described similarly?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I have just been to Germany recently and one interesting fact that I wasn't aware of is the falling birth rate in the country. One of the reasons behind Merkel's thinking maybe that they need more people in the country to repeat the success of growing their economy through Gastarbeiters.

I first cited this evidence years ago, and is something I consider everyday knowledge.

The same applies in Britain. The birthrate amongst 'native' population is around 1.1, and below the replacement ratio of 1.2 which is needed to maintain the population. Without immigration the problems of ageing population, and decreasing working age population would be worse and much more like Italy and Japan.

The implications on pensions and elderly care are huge. Forty years ago we had three or four workers per pensioner/child dependent. Now the dependency ratio is one or two to one. Without immigration we'd have more dependent aged people than workers, which obviously is not sustainable (one reason why Japan sent pensioners to Africa where living costs were lower).

This was A-Level Geography stuff in 2002! (Keep forgetting such basic evidence is lacking from so most political conversation).

[confused.com]

I have just been to Germany recently and one interesting fact that I wasn't aware of is the falling birth rate in the country. One of the reasons behind Merkel's thinking maybe that they need more people in the country to repeat the success of growing their economy through Gastarbeiters.

I first cited this evidence years ago, and is something I consider everyday knowledge.

The same applies in Britain. The birthrate amongst 'native' population is around 1.1, and below the replacement ratio of 1.2 which is needed to maintain the population. Without immigration the problems of ageing population, and decreasing working age population would be worse and much more like Italy and Japan.

The implications on pensions and elderly care are huge. Forty years ago we had three or four workers per pensioner/child dependent. Now the dependency ratio is one or two to one. Without immigration we'd have more dependent aged people than workers, which obviously is not sustainable (one reason why Japan sent pensioners to Africa where living costs were lower).

This was A-Level Geography stuff in 2002! (Keep forgetting such basic evidence is lacking from so most political conversation).

I have not heard anyone of any political hue, say we don't need migration. What we do need, is controlled migration i.e. numbers and skills to fill jobs that can't be filled. Baristas and sandwich technicians, do not fall in to this category

[asl]

But surely half the problem is that we don't have enough people in this country who are willing to be 'baristas and sandwich technicians' or cleaners or waiters or veg pickers, etc, etc? I was talking to a couple of Guest House owners last week in Ireland (one in Galway, the other in Dublin) who asked me about the Brexit vote in the UK. They both told me that they cannot employ 'local' people to work in their premises as nobody wants to do it for the money they can afford to pay. The same is true with various 'low wage' employers I've spoken to in the UK: the local populace has been educated to a point where they feel such menial tasks are beneath them. Pretty much gone are the days when youngsters were willing to work three menial jobs to earn enough money to 'live'. Now, if they can't find a role that makes full use of their Media Studies or History of Art qualifications, they'd sooner not bother.

I see MacDonnell has just said Labour will raise the minimum wage to £10ph if Hell freezes over and they get into power (easy promise to make by any opposition.) So an employer who can just afford to employ 10 people at £9ph (£3600 wage bill per week) may have to employ just 9 at £10ph. Hooray for the lucky 9 - bad luck for that one who misses out. With fewer staff, maybe the company will be unable to perform to the standards that the 10 previously did and lose business as a result, which means that £3600pw becomes unsustainable and we race to the bottom.

[Si Robin]

But surely half the problem is that we don't have enough people in this country who are willing to be 'baristas and sandwich technicians' or cleaners or waiters or veg pickers, etc, etc? I was talking to a couple of Guest House owners last week in Ireland (one in Galway, the other in Dublin) who asked me about the Brexit vote in the UK. They both told me that they cannot employ 'local' people to work in their premises as nobody wants to do it for the money they can afford to pay. The same is true with various 'low wage' employers I've spoken to in the UK: the local populace has been educated to a point where they feel such menial tasks are beneath them. Pretty much gone are the days when youngsters were willing to work three menial jobs to earn enough money to 'live'. Now, if they can't find a role that makes full use of their Media Studies or History of Art qualifications, they'd sooner not bother.

Hard to agree with any of that asl. I myself was guilty of it when having not worked for 18 months (I didn't claim on the dole either) I realised I needed a job. I wanted a nice cushy office one and refused the help to get a job in a factory from a mate who worked there. Eventually I had to bite the bullet and it wasn't remotely as bad as I thought. I'm now in a cushy office job, but the factory work made me work harder to get the job I'm in.

The other issue isn't just how young people perceive jobs either though. It's also an issue with older people. Whilst working at said factory I fell into my first serious relationship, only for my girlfriend's dad to then look down on me due to the fact that I was simply a factory worker, and therefore couldn't be good enough for his daughter.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

[quote="asl"]But surely half the problem is that we don't have enough people in this country who are willing to be 'baristas and sandwich technicians' or cleaners or waiters or veg pickers, etc, etc? I was talking to a couple of Guest House owners last week in Ireland (one in Galway, the other in Dublin) who asked me about the Brexit vote in the UK. They both told me that they cannot employ 'local' people to work in their premises as nobody wants to do it for the money they can afford to pay. The same is true with various 'low wage' employers I've spoken to in the UK: the local populace has been educated to a point where they feel such menial tasks are beneath them. Pretty much gone are the days when youngsters were willing to work three menial jobs to earn enough money to 'live'. Now, if they can't find a role that makes full use of their Media Studies or History of Art qualifications, they'd sooner not bother.

I see MacDonnell has just said Labour will raise the minimum wage to £10ph if Hell freezes over and they get into power (easy promise to make by any opposition.) So an employer who can just afford to employ 10 people at £9ph (£3600 wage bill per week) may have to employ just 9 at £10ph. Hooray for the lucky 9 - bad luck for that one who misses out. With fewer staff, maybe the company will be unable to perform to the standards that the 10 previously did and lose business as a result, which means that £3600pw becomes unsustainable and we race to the bottom.[/quote]

That is what happens when most of your economy is based on an ever smaller number of huge companies. Looking at your Guest House example. Previously, if most guest houses were run by individuals, families or small companies then their incentive was to make a good living and run a good business. If that meant charging £100 a night in order to hire local kids and buy from local suppliers at local market rates then so be it.

Now down the road will be a Premier Inn or Ibis etc. Owned by venture capitalists and shareholders their aim is not for a good business but the cheapest and lowest cost. So efforts to find the cheapest workers and suppliers from around the world. As consumers have been brainwashed that cheap is more important than quality and ethics the original guest house and suppliers cannot compete without lowering their input and labour costs.

So a situation occurs that customers want, and foreign owners supply, hotel rooms below a price the local labour market and supply chain can operate at.

The low wages in turn make people want cheaper groceries, or clothes, so the low wage and low price spiral grows.

This would not be a problem per se. However, the same rent seeking by conglomerate rentiers means housing, utilities, broadband and train costs keep rising. This means the driving down of wages is a problem. And of course low grocery prices bring indirect costs to society (soil erosion and flooding, poor health, obesity and diabetes) etc.

What those people who want capitalism to bring benefits to all is to narrow the gap between wages and housing/utility cost. If energy company profit margins were three per cent rather than 15 per cent then prices would be lower. If rent was capped or more houses built prices would be lower. If the train network existed to benefit the UK economy rather than global shareholders prices would be lower. There are some UK human necessities which should not be left to be exploited by rentiers with no stake in UK humans.

Sort these out and people's wage demands and price demands for groceries and other goods and services will find an equilibrium which does not require a race to the bottom. Simple.

As for mininum wage. Plenty of research recently shows that whilst your maths is correct your economic assumptions and evidence are not. Of course small businesses are disadvantaged by the wage floor than large businesses who can pay the minimum easily with only a fraction of a per cent reduction in profits (i.e note that executive pay and bonuses rises faster than minimum wage).

To help these small businesses, you got it, reduce housing, utilities and transport costs and a) the minimum wage will not need to be £10ph and b) customers may be able to afford higher prices.

Having cheaper housing relative to incomes reduces the housing benefits bill. Cheaper utilities relative to earnings reduces working tax credits and other benefits.

Let's shift paying wages from the state to the private sector. Reduce to near zero or in some areas make zero business rates and corporation tax. Then businesses can pay employees. If the housing shortage exploiters and utility and transport monopolies were sorted out too then the result id plenty of local people would be willing and able to take jobs which in the current feudal system only cheap Eastern European or illegal migrants can.

Say Yes to Business.
Say Yes to the free market
Say Yes to Britain
Say No to monopolies and oligopolies
Say No to corruption and concentration of wealth
Say No to the Tories

#BusinessForBritain
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