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 Post subject: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 27 Sep 2017, 14:34 
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Spanish government putting police at polling stations to stop people voting in the unauthorised Catalonia elections.

That will only end one way.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -catalonia


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 01 Oct 2017, 21:13 
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And so it begins.

Worst way possible to try and stop a region breaking away and to unite a country instead? Send in paramilitary police to beat people. Any Catalan who didn't want to breakaway or who was neutral is going to favour secession now after the police response. Spain Government basically ruined any chance of unity. They should have let the vote take place then said it was not legal, ignored it, and discussed further devolution. Instead, it is almost civil war and there won't be any discussion. Such a daft plan by Rajoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 01 Oct 2017, 21:36 
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Yet another politician who has become disconnected from the electorate. The list continues, Cameron, May, Clinton, Hollande, Merkel.....


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017, 08:41 
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RCS, agree. The polls seem to suggest those for breaking away are in the minority. However, I suppose the danger was that the pro Spanish folk would just ignore any poll and thus distort the outcome. But sending in the riot squad to stop people voting is the most bizarre sight ever in a democracy. Franco must be laughing


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 03 Oct 2017, 22:31 
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Great example on a small scale what the EU are doing : bullying the UK and lack any kind of respect, just look at Juncker and his rants.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017, 07:12 
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So strange how this is past over by the EU as an internal issue, yet they suddenly have become experts in what is best for NI, which doesn't seem to be an internal issue? Indeep they are so expert that dear Jan their chief brexit expert on all things Irish, recently visited Belfast and was amazed to find a peace wall. Obviously has hid finger on the pulse. Good man to have advising on NI lol


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 13:35 
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Good post, confused.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 13:40 
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Only nuance is the NI situation is a matter of a border between UK and EU, so an external issue. Wouldn't matter it was NI or any other border. Whereas internal UK issues such as Scotland referendum have not had EU intervention.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 13:58 
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Then why the continual reference to the TGFA? They put this at the forefront of all debate and something that must be settled before we move on to the actual important issues re Brexit.
If anything it is our neighbours in the South who should be looking as to how they can adjust to the UK and not the other way round. It is them that stand to lose their British bridge to europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 14:19 
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confused.com wrote:
Then why the continual reference to the TGFA? They put this at the forefront of all debate and something that must be settled before we move on to the actual important issues re Brexit.
If anything it is our neighbours in the South who should be looking as to how they can adjust to the UK and not the other way round. It is them that stand to lose their British bridge to europe.


Valid points and questions.

I do agree with you and Mal on this, just trying to rationalise countering views.

You'll be more aware of me than I am on the links between the Ireland - Northern Ireland border and the GFA and passport options for NI residents. Thinking back to the genesis of the EU and bringing it to a modern context, if France left the EU and some people in the region of Alsace and the city Strasbourg wanted to join Germany and started a bombing campaign with both countries that would be an EU-non-EU border dispute and one non-EU country being bombed by militia in an EU country. That would warrant EU intervention more than if Alsace just voted to become German and both France and Germany stayed in the EU. The NI situation is more like the former scenario, and Catalunya more like the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 14:49 
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Your scenarios kind of hinges on the term 'some people'. From what I remember and - may be wrong but unlikely as it was done by my old Alma mater, their was a QUB/ Times survey in NI in 7016 which revelaed 16% wanted to live in a. United ireland. If those are the percentages that make up 'some people' trying to change the position of the 84%, then the EU should step in and eradicate. Spain's only strong play is to let a vote happen and then deal with the outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 14:54 
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confused.com wrote:
Your scenarios kind of hinges on the term 'some people'. From what I remember and - may be wrong but unlikely as it was done by my old Alma mater, their was a QUB/ Times survey in NI in 7016 which revelaed 16% wanted to live in a. United ireland. If those are the percentages that make up 'some people' trying to change the position of the 84%, then the EU should step in and eradicate. Spain's only strong play is to let a vote happen and then deal with the outcome.


Agree with you re: Spain play.

Re: Some people. Most recent actual data (ie not a poll) was General Election 2017, where Sinn Fein and SDLP achieved 41% of the vote, so quite a sizeable minority.

Which is your alma mata by the way?


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 15:31 
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You are trying to group the catholic vote as a monolith. As in all things NI voting is more about voting against someone rather than for someone. So impossible to extrapolate that result into a UI vote.
Queens university belfast


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017, 15:49 
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confused.com wrote:
You are trying to group the catholic vote as a monolith. As in all things NI voting is more about voting against someone rather than for someone. So impossible to extrapolate that result into a UI vote.
Queens university belfast


Of course - wondered what QUB stood for, silly me.

I didn't know/couldn't care whether SF and SDLP were catholic or not. All I know is that they are nationalists in favour of a united Ireland - and I would assume that some protestants who want a united Ireland would vote Nationalist and some Catholics who want to stay in the UK would vote Unionist, though happy to be told that is a naive assumption.

Another reason to keep religion out of politics and policy and confine it to the home and places of worship. If political parties didn't align to religion, and just ran on political, health/social and economic issues it might help.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 06:12 
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Naive assumption :) take your point re political groupings. However can't see that happening in NI. There would need to be a major dea change for that to happen. The south of ireland would need to change dramatically. One example, knowing your love of the influence of religions. Is that 90% of schools in the south are controlled by the RC church. All a bit odd in what is supposed to be a modern society


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 07:16 
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confused.com wrote:
Naive assumption :) take your point re political groupings. However can't see that happening in NI. There would need to be a major dea change for that to happen. The south of ireland would need to change dramatically. One example, knowing your love of the influence of religions. Is that 90% of schools in the south are controlled by the RC church. All a bit odd in what is supposed to be a modern society


No time for religious schools. Whether in Islamabad or Dublin.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 07:32 
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Had worked that one out ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 11:25 
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Kicking off big time now:

http://news.sky.com/story/live-madrid-s ... y-11100121


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 14:39 
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Let’s see how the EU will react.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 15:14 
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Which side are you on Mal? Catalonia or Spanish Government?

EU won't and shouldn't do anything. Spanish domestic issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 17:39 
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Neither, doesn't affect me.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017, 09:15 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Which side are you on Mal? Catalonia or Spanish Government?

EU won't and shouldn't do anything. Spanish domestic issue.


That’s not true. Catalonia receives funding from the European Regional Development Fund which is governed by the European Commission and uses EU tax payer funds. Additionally, Catalonia’s independence would see them having to leave the EU and reapply, should they chose.

Still, I’m sure the luvvies will be throwing the “they didn’t know why they were voting for” catchphrase out there and labelling the independence voters luddites.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to kick off in Spain big time
 Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017, 11:06 
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Those are issues the EU would need to sort out after independence. Same as if Scotland voted yes, or the NI issues post-Brexit ref.

I am a naturally inclined separatist and tend to always support the break away regions in instances like this. Especially in the face of police brutality from a party set up to support Franco.

As for luvvies, not sure what they have to do with it. In my experience they actively avoid any discussion or understanding about economics and real life, and wear geographical ignorance like a badge of honour to what ever champagne supping gallery even they are going to. They’d certainly fail a test I would like to introduce for people to pass before being allowed to vote.


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