How long....

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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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One theory of course is that the whole thing is a false flag op by loyalists; submit letters to Brady to force a vote knowing they will beat the ERG to weaken them before the vote on the deal.
Johnsons Red Army
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"Sophy Ridge

at SophyRidgeSky - Twitter
The expectation is that PM will win the vote but decision to restore the Whip to two MPs means it may be closer than first thought.... source tells me there will be some Cabinet voting against May despite public pronouncements

28
5:24 PM - Dec 12, 2018"

I guess that shows how much the public pronouncements are worth then, i.e. nothing, if true of course.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Widely reported by MPs and journalists that May told the 1922 she won’t stand in next election but will fight on to deliver Brexit.

If so, is than open goal for Labour? They could table a no confidence motion and the ERG could support them to force a general election to get their wish of a new Conservative leader.

Edit: Confirmed now by many MPs. E.g George Freeman MP on Twitter: “Powerful & moving moment in the #1922 as the PM makes clear that she has has listened, heard & respects the will of the Party that once she has delivered an orderly Brexit, she will step aside for the election of a new Leader to lead the reunification & renewal we need. Respect.”

A Labour no confidence motion (if May survives) would throw the proverbial cat amongst for sure.

Relishing in chaos is probably the only thing (apart from despair at the lack of general knowledge and education in society) which I have in common with Rees-Mogg.
Last edited by RegencyCheltenhamSpa on 12 Dec 2018, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
Johnsons Red Army
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Widely reported by MPs and journalists that May told the 1922 she won’t stand in next election but will fight on to deliver Brexit.
If so, is than open goal for Labour? They could table a no confidence motion and the ERG could support them to force a general election to get their wish of a new Conservative leader.
A big gamble to take, potentially gifting power to Labour in the process, but you never know.
Last edited by Johnsons Red Army on 12 Dec 2018, 18:11, edited 1 time in total.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Blasted timing though. I’m going to an inaugural pub quiz (beta version to test difficulty and format) at the Royal Northumberland Yacht Club in Blyth (aka Regional Brexit HQ) tonight so mobile phones very much banned and switched off at 9pm when Brady announces. How the blazes can one concentrate on a quiz knowing the news is breaking!

A colleague who writes a quiz for a different ale house in Newcastle is going to integrate news in the quiz; the jackpot round which involves guessing a numerical answer with the closest winning a round will be “how big was the majority in tonight’s vote”.
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Ihearye
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given you can't believe a word that comes out of her mouth, would be no shock to see her still there in 2022. You have to wonder what her next trick will be when she eventually has to put her 'deal' to a vote and gets soundly defeated. Get rid and get somebody in that you can trust.
Johnsons Red Army
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Well, unsurprisingly, she has won.

Total number of yes and no votes

Yes votes: 200

No votes: 117

Majority: 83
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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83 majority. Will she quit?

When will she bring the next vote to Parliament?

Will Labour call a no confidence motion to bait the ERG.

No Deal or People’s Vote. I don’t care which. Get it done.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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63%-37% to May then. And Mogg still complaining. Sshhh.

We won the quiz btw.
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Malabus
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They wouldn't let a scruffy so-and-so into a yacht club...and you got to be without Google for at least five minutes. #Copy+Paste

Stop lying.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:They wouldn't let a scruffy so-and-so into a yacht club...and you got to be without Google for at least five minutes. #Copy+Paste

Stop lying.
:roll: :roll: pathetic.
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Ihearye
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Please God not a people's vote. I couldn't be doing with another 2 years of this endless voting and subsequent arguing. Can't believe it, but am now just thinking. Lets just stop all the debates, get ready for March 29th and start looking after the country.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:Please God not a people's vote. I couldn't be doing with another 2 years of this endless voting and subsequent arguing. Can't believe it, but am now just thinking. Lets just stop all the debates, get ready for March 29th and start looking after the country.
Yup. No Deal or No Brexit the two best ways out of the mess. Up to Parliament to decide how to decide which!
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Malabus
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We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
Johnsons Red Army
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Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
Red Duke
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Johnsons Red Army wrote:
Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
but it is no different to other elections, politicians lie and lie again to get your vote.
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Malabus
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Johnsons Red Army wrote:
Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
WE HAVE ALREADY HAD A PEOPLE VOTE ... Are you having difficulty understanding this.
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Shade
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We're still in the EU, so how do we know what the outcomes will be? We won't know for certain what will happen until it happens. Anyone that says differently is as full of horseshit as everyone else.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:
Johnsons Red Army wrote:
Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
WE HAVE ALREADY HAD A PEOPLE VOTE ... Are you having difficulty understanding this.
Ok. Which part of that vote confirmed whether the people prefer No Deal or May’s Deal (or similar)?
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Malabus
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Doesn’t matter.

Cameron said the vote would be FINAL.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:Doesn’t matter.

Cameron said the vote would be FINAL.
Cameron said a lot of things. That is what politicians do.

Why are you scared anyway? I personally think Leave would win again if Remain was on the ballot and by a larger margin than 2016. Surely anyone scared of a People’s Vote is scared because they think Brexit is proving to be bad and people might vote Remain.

I personally think May’s Deal would win a People’s Vote, even though that would be most people’s second choice. So a People’s Vote not a panacea but, if MPs cannot agree what other option is there.

I ask you now Mal, if MPs block No Deal, and reject May’s Deal, what possible resolution is there to get MPs to agree on how to leave by end of March 2019? (Not what you want to happen or hope would happen, but what you honestly think is achievable).
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Malabus
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Malabus wrote:Doesn’t matter.

Cameron said the vote would be FINAL.
Cameron said a lot of things. That is what politicians do.

Why are you scared anyway? I personally think Leave would win again if Remain was on the balance. Surely anyone scared of a People’s Vote is scared because they think Brexit is proving to be bad and people might vote Remain.

I personally think May’s Deal would win a People’s Vote, even though that would be most people’s second choice. So a People’s Vote not a panacea but, if MPs cannot agree what other option is there.

I ask you now Mal, if MPs block No Deal, and reject May’s Deal, what possible resolution is there? (Not what you want to happen or hope would happen, but what you honestly think is achievable).
MP’s can’t block NO DEAL it’s default.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Malabus wrote:Doesn’t matter.

Cameron said the vote would be FINAL.
Cameron said a lot of things. That is what politicians do.

Why are you scared anyway? I personally think Leave would win again if Remain was on the balance. Surely anyone scared of a People’s Vote is scared because they think Brexit is proving to be bad and people might vote Remain.

I personally think May’s Deal would win a People’s Vote, even though that would be most people’s second choice. So a People’s Vote not a panacea but, if MPs cannot agree what other option is there.

I ask you now Mal, if MPs block No Deal, and reject May’s Deal, what possible resolution is there? (Not what you want to happen or hope would happen, but what you honestly think is achievable).
MP’s can’t block NO DEAL it’s default.
Diddums. Keep telling yourself that.

Answer the question posed please.
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Malabus
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Diddums. Keep telling yourself that.

Answer the question posed please.
Obviously you are that stupid if you think MP’s can block a NO DEAL.

Is Google down today?
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Diddums. Keep telling yourself that.

Answer the question posed please.
Obviously you are that stupid if you think MP’s can block a NO DEAL.

Is Google down today?
:lol: :roll: That pathetic argument again.

Google is not down - if you had the ability to use it yourself you might be able to find out more about the topic we are discussing. Educate yourself or f*ck off. We may have had enough of experts but we have had enough of f*ckwits like you as well.
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Ihearye
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Johnsons Red Army wrote:
Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
With you on that one. You have to wonder how many Remain votes would switch if they had know that the way forward was
1. one Eurozone Budget
2. Euro Defence force
3. Common migration Policy
4. common tax policy on tech giants

All these facts came out after the vote, so surely people should have the right to now say no to these developments ?
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Malabus
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Ihearye wrote:
Johnsons Red Army wrote:
Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
With you on that one. You have to wonder how many Remain votes would switch if they had know that the way forward was
1. one Eurozone Budget
2. Euro Defence force
3. Common migration Policy
4. common tax policy on tech giants

All these facts came out after the vote, so surely people should have the right to now say no to these developments ?
Great post.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:
Johnsons Red Army wrote:
Malabus wrote:We already had a Peoples vote in 2016.
The vote based on lies/misinformation you mean?

Surely it makes sense to have a vote now that all outcomes are known, unlike before where we weren't even sure what the outcomes were?
With you on that one. You have to wonder how many Remain votes would switch if they had know that the way forward was
1. one Eurozone Budget
2. Euro Defence force
3. Common migration Policy
4. common tax policy on tech giants

All these facts came out after the vote, so surely people should have the right to now say no to these developments ?
Re: point 4. Best way to stop tax evasion is to have a global tax rate, preferably low and close to zero.
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Ihearye
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Malabus wrote:Doesn’t matter.

Cameron said the vote would be FINAL.
Cameron said a lot of things. That is what politicians do.

Why are you scared anyway? I personally think Leave would win again if Remain was on the ballot and by a larger margin than 2016. Surely anyone scared of a People’s Vote is scared because they think Brexit is proving to be bad and people might vote Remain.

I personally think May’s Deal would win a People’s Vote, even though that would be most people’s second choice. So a People’s Vote not a panacea but, if MPs cannot agree what other option is there.

I ask you now Mal, if MPs block No Deal, and reject May’s Deal, what possible resolution is there to get MPs to agree on how to leave by end of March 2019? (Not what you want to happen or hope would happen, but what you honestly think is achievable).
I do wish people would stop saying the choice is May's attempt at a deal or no deal. It is as everyone believes she played a blinder and we squeezed the last drop out of them it is akin to first time buyers to be asked, do you want no house or the one Ihearye built, because that is the best house there is. Believe me, you wouldn't want to be near anything I built!

She is playing the nation for mugs. So much for her continual 'nations good' rantings. Push the vote back as late as she can, then hope the hell people will start to vote for it. If she is finishing her begging bowl tour today. Pop out to the front of No 10 and explain the great strides forward she has made and then vote next Monday.

Says it all on how popular her deal is, when Arlene is sounding out Labour's position
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Malabus wrote:Doesn’t matter.

Cameron said the vote would be FINAL.
Cameron said a lot of things. That is what politicians do.

Why are you scared anyway? I personally think Leave would win again if Remain was on the ballot and by a larger margin than 2016. Surely anyone scared of a People’s Vote is scared because they think Brexit is proving to be bad and people might vote Remain.

I personally think May’s Deal would win a People’s Vote, even though that would be most people’s second choice. So a People’s Vote not a panacea but, if MPs cannot agree what other option is there.

I ask you now Mal, if MPs block No Deal, and reject May’s Deal, what possible resolution is there to get MPs to agree on how to leave by end of March 2019? (Not what you want to happen or hope would happen, but what you honestly think is achievable).
I do wish people would stop saying the choice is May's attempt at a deal or no deal. It is as everyone believes she played a blinder and we squeezed the last drop out of them it is akin to first time buyers to be asked, do you want no house or the one Ihearye built, because that is the best house there is. Believe me, you wouldn't want to be near anything I built!

She is playing the nation for mugs. So much for her continual 'nations good' rantings. Push the vote back as late as she can, then hope the hell people will start to vote for it. If she is finishing her begging bowl tour today. Pop out to the front of No 10 and explain the great strides forward she has made and then vote next Monday.

Says it all on how popular her deal is, when Arlene is sounding out Labour's position
Well if May and the EU both say they are not going to renegotiate what other deal is there until a new PM or Govt is in place?
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Ihearye
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RCS surely you mean tax avoidance ? :)

zero is always the aim. Similar to the duties imposed by the WTO, when two countries are discussing a new trade deal, the duties rate are zero. Which I thought is interesting, given the fear of no deal
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Malabus
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Have to be No Deal...after all a GE will be held first week in February? and the new leader will hold new negotiations and with the EU pigheadedness nothing new will happen. It may hurt at first but a No Deal would be the best outcome for the UK in the long run.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:RCS surely you mean tax avoidance ? :)

zero is always the aim. Similar to the duties imposed by the WTO, when two countries are discussing a new trade deal, the duties rate are zero. Which I thought is interesting, given the fear of no deal
The concern is the length of time it takes to agree a deal.

I was talking about corporation tax though, not tariffs.

A lot more at stake than tariffs when it comes to trade deals. Plenty of things to bash out on standards, agreeing what markets you are happy to open up and which ones you want accessbto which the other party wants to keep closed. Even as detailed as having clauses about what you can and can’t buy from other countries outside of your deal.

International trade and WTO disputes was something I previously studied for a good six months. So whilst complex, like you I genuinely believe there is nothing to fear at all after a short-term shock. What I do fear is a lack of U.K. leadership resulting in signing up to deals where we have to import low standard / low welfare products and open up markets we don’t which it is not in the interests of U.K. society or global sustainability to do so.
Last edited by RegencyCheltenhamSpa on 13 Dec 2018, 16:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Ihearye
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Cameron said a lot of things. That is what politicians do.

Why are you scared anyway? I personally think Leave would win again if Remain was on the ballot and by a larger margin than 2016. Surely anyone scared of a People’s Vote is scared because they think Brexit is proving to be bad and people might vote Remain.

I personally think May’s Deal would win a People’s Vote, even though that would be most people’s second choice. So a People’s Vote not a panacea but, if MPs cannot agree what other option is there.

I ask you now Mal, if MPs block No Deal, and reject May’s Deal, what possible resolution is there to get MPs to agree on how to leave by end of March 2019? (Not what you want to happen or hope would happen, but what you honestly think is achievable).[/quote]

I do wish people would stop saying the choice is May's attempt at a deal or no deal. It is as everyone believes she played a blinder and we squeezed the last drop out of them it is akin to first time buyers to be asked, do you want no house or the one Ihearye built, because that is the best house there is. Believe me, you wouldn't want to be near anything I built!

She is playing the nation for mugs. So much for her continual 'nations good' rantings. Push the vote back as late as she can, then hope the hell people will start to vote for it. If she is finishing her begging bowl tour today. Pop out to the front of No 10 and explain the great strides forward she has made and then vote next Monday.

Says it all on how popular her deal is, when Arlene is sounding out Labour's position[/quote]

Well if May and the EU both say they are not going to renegotiate what other deal is there until a new PM or Govt is in place?[/quote]
Indeed, but who would have thought eh? Mr Major would be impressed with her fortitude an reaching out
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:Have to be No Deal...after all a GE will be held first week in February? and the new leader will hold new negotiations and with the EU pigheadedness nothing new will happen. It may hurt at first but a No Deal would be the best outcome for the UK in the long run.
Yup at this stage I believe No Deal is a better outcome than a half baked deal.
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