Johnson on the run

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kora
Posts: 573
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 12:55
Andrew Neil's comments on non show Johnson sum up just what a f#!$ scumbag he really is. Isn't Neil heavily involved in the Spectator which makes it all the more damning when Johnson writes for said paper. There's a link on Mark Halliwell's twitter feed. Let's get these lying cheating tax dodging bastards out before we all get screwed to line their pockets.
asl
Posts: 6668
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:37
...as opposed to Corbyn who will screw everyone to line everyone else's pockets. They're both as dangerous as each other for diametrically opposite reasons.

Despite being a Child of Thatcher and having always voted Tory (except that year John Taylor stood in Cheltenham and turned it into a farce by playing the 'race' card), I absolutely refuse to vote Blue this time. Because I do have the vaguest understanding of economics, I absolutely won't ever vote for Corbyn and McDonnell (and, in my North Wiltshire constituency, that would be a wasted vote, anyway...) I wrote to James Gray MP to tell him, too.

Because this is a de facto second referendum, I'm voting Lib Dem simply to boil Mal's p1ss rather than any desire/expectation to see Swinson in No 10.
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Shade
Posts: 16823
Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 13:02
Location: Cheltenhamshire
It's a shame that, rather than voting in, we can't vote people out. The new reality show from ITV. That way we could actually get rid of everyone we don't want anywhere near our nations politics, whether they're an elected MP or not. And the stipulation is that they are never allowed to pursue a career in politics again.

However, I am aware that this would leave us with about 6 people in Parliament...but at least some things might get done.
theidlerich
Posts: 1782
Joined: 03 Dec 2009, 09:22
Location: Cotswolds
......and even less in the "upper house'!
theidlerich
Posts: 1782
Joined: 03 Dec 2009, 09:22
Location: Cotswolds
Under the auspices of electoral reform may I suggest a change to 1/3 elected by random selection of uk residents [who wish to be nominated]; 1/3 made up of people from "professional bodies/charities/environmental groups etc [ eg BMA' Institute of Biology/Chemistry etc...Architects/FoE/Cancer research etc etc...; but by secret voting procedure from their general committees] and 1/3 directly elected by proportional representation! Merely a suggestion but I would bet a swift half and a packet of crisps that it would work far better than now. :)
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Ihearye
Posts: 3428
Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
have voted Green teh last few times, as I started to put the planet at the head of my to do list. However, seems now they have decided brexit is more important. Only option is to vote for Alex Chalk, who I believe is a decent old sod. The alternative is to helo teh nutters in Labour into power. Whats the point in voting Lib Dem? May push their total to 14 MP's instead of 13
theidlerich
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Joined: 03 Dec 2009, 09:22
Location: Cotswolds
Alex Chalk supports the current deceitful incumbents in No 10; more interested in ensuring their 'masters' retain their tax privileges rather than attending to the many pressing issues facing UK to-day. Therefore a vote for him shores up their ghastly and frightening scenario.
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Ihearye
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
theidlerich wrote:Alex Chalk supports the current deceitful incumbents in No 10; more interested in ensuring their 'masters' retain their tax privileges rather than attending to the many pressing issues facing UK to-day. Therefore a vote for him shores up their ghastly and frightening scenario.
And the alternative is ????? Let the lunatics start dragging us back into the 1970's? Shocked they have not suggested reverting JLR to being British Leyland and letting us all foot the bill for that as well as everything else. Big baps Swinson will blow whatever way the wind is. Complicit, in disenfranchising Green vote. Now there is democracy in action for you. Surely the irony can't even be lost on her. Removing the ability to vote for a party you want, in the hope of over turning a democratic vote. Couldn't make it up.
Not a great fan of the Cons, but have always found Alex Chalk to be a decent person and does work hard for Cheltenham. In the end, I want a MP who works for me. The Boots corner fiasco, shows me how much the Lib Dems listen to the electorate. Zero
Red Duke
Posts: 1991
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:15
Location: North West
I am in a Labour/ Conservative marginal. I can't stand either Johnson or Corbyn but do I vote tactically based on the least worst option?

What sad state of affairs that I have to think like this. Where have all good polticians gone?

They all lie and make promises which they know they are not going to keep. They come out of their Westminster bubble each election and say stuff just to get your vote and then just ignore you until the next time.

The best example of this I can give is that I lived in the North East for 40 years and they promised every election that would dual the A1 north of Morpeth up to Berwick. Have they built it? Of course not. A couple years after an election, they will have a "spending review" and it gets cancelled.

They are now talking about connecting the north together by the Northern Powerhouse and HS3. Will it happen, of course not! It will be a repeat of A1 fiasco.

Everything is only done for the benefit of London. Who benefits most out of HS2? London, of course.

London needs Crossrail. Do they get it? Of they do, even though it is over budget by billions.

I honestly don't know what to do, I will probably only decide which way to vote on Thursday morning.
Ben3
Posts: 885
Joined: 12 Sep 2018, 07:08
Unfortunately, due to the neo-liberal Washington consensus the uk has followed a path that values economic transactions over any other type of work/trade.

To be fair London has thrived on this, and we all live off the taxes paid in the wake of the chancers who inhabit and make profit in this world. It’s sickening but it has worked - up to a point.

The conservatives will try to build on this and increase it in its extremity. Labour will try to reverse it and will come up against every sector of opinion who is worried that the model will break and therefore we’ll be worse off. The Lib Dem’s are neutral on the macro economic models and so potentially are the worst at both ends of the scale - or potentially the best. Brexit is just a side show to provide a smoke screen for the status quo.

It’s not worse than before. It’s literally exactly the same. Choose wisely kids
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29757
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Lib Dems get my vote. Much more economically sensible than the Greens who make Labour look right of of centre although I like the other aspects of the Green Party where they are much better than Labour like social liberalism, climate change, and electoral reform.

Labour model broadly pretty similar to Denmark, Sweden or Norway whose businesses do just as well as ours and with better public services. But too much whacky stuff from Labour around nationalisation of competitive industries (as opposed to just natural monopolies that no free-marketeer like me can support the existence of so thus want nationalised).

Not sure the Lib Dems can be undemocratic; if they win enough votes to stop Brexit then by default they have been democratically elected to deliver that mandate. And I doubt they would shut Parliament, have a manifesto pledge to revoke independence of the judiciary and refuse to do any debates.

Plus Jo Swinson is just much more relatable to me. Not from the elite “born-to-rule” world of Eton like Boris and not from Corbyn’s bubble of political activist parents. Jo had normal parents and went to a state school and then the same university as me (Sian Berry, deputy Green leader went to the same school as me) so she just seems more normal and more like the people I know and hang out with.
Ben3
Posts: 885
Joined: 12 Sep 2018, 07:08
But RCS - due to level of global governance when multiple actors work together to develop policy and practice in areas - what is the point of local or national democracy?

If we look at trans national, multi national and global developments in terms of pressure groups, corporations, lobbiests, NGO’s, INGO’s and supra level governance (such as the EU) then we see that the vote between one of two broadly similar parties is legitimising the interests of the wealthy elite.

This is all explained in every election. We all know it - it’s an open democracy. We vote to choose between them.

It’s free choice - innit?
Ralph
Posts: 4830
Joined: 23 Dec 2009, 01:56
None of them are great but god help everyone if Corbyn gets in. The country will go back to the dark ages
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Ben3 wrote:But RCS - due to level of global governance when multiple actors work together to develop policy and practice in areas - what is the point of local or national democracy?

If we look at trans national, multi national and global developments in terms of pressure groups, corporations, lobbiests, NGO’s, INGO’s and supra level governance (such as the EU) then we see that the vote between one of two broadly similar parties is legitimising the interests of the wealthy elite.

This is all explained in every election. We all know it - it’s an open democracy. We vote to choose between them.

It’s free choice - innit?
(Lobbyists*, NGOs*, INGOs*).

The point is who do you want representing your country in international policy making circles. For example, in this election we could vote for someone who would try and lead the OECD to agree to an standardised international digital transactions tax to remove the ability for Amazon etc to avoid tax. Or we could elect someone who doesn’t like working multilaterally with other countries and who would like to promote and encourage tax avoidance rather than clamp down on it.

That’s just one policy where our national election makes a difference internationally. Start adding in climate change, human rights in places like Saudi Arabia and China, foreign aid and military intervention, migration, rise of fascism in Europe, trade, space and satellites etc and the stance we take at supranational forums and the level of leadership we show is dependent on who we elect to represent us.
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Ihearye
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
Well done Mr Chalk !!! and well done Cheltenham
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Shade
Posts: 16823
Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 13:02
Location: Cheltenhamshire
And Glos.
Ben3
Posts: 885
Joined: 12 Sep 2018, 07:08
A most astounding case of the ‘third face of power’ - the wealthy elite do not need to exert force because they have convinced the population that the best interests of the wealthy elite are actually in the best interests of everyone else - even when they are quite demonstrably not.

But that’s free markets, innit ;) .

I’d recommend ‘The strange non-death of neoliberalism’ to anyone for a look at how and why neoliberalism is still the dominant narrative even when it has so spectacularly failed with the state interventions of 2008.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
Posts: 29757
Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
Ben3 wrote:A most astounding case of the ‘third face of power’ - the wealthy elite do not need to exert force because they have convinced the population that the best interests of the wealthy elite are actually in the best interests of everyone else - even when they are quite demonstrably not.

But that’s free markets, innit ;) .

I’d recommend ‘The strange non-death of neoliberalism’ to anyone for a look at how and why neoliberalism is still the dominant narrative even when it has so spectacularly failed with the state interventions of 2008.
Activating the Third Face is also a good way to erode altruism and a sense of society. People like me who see the impact of austerity on people striving their hardest but still in poverty have so far supported policies that seek to address structural inequality in opportunities and outcomes. But the more these people vote policies which make their situation worse the less inclined people like me are to want to help them, and Conservatism becomes entrenched.

When the inevitable additional foodbanks and clothbanks for families and kids which will be needed in Blyth, Bolsover, Jaywick or Rye or whichever other deprived places open then I would not disagree to giving priority access to those who didn’t vote Conservative and those destitute people who voted for their own destitution can go to the back of the queue. And just like that the concept of the ‘deserving poor’ which Tories like to promote becomes mainstream.
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