Woolwich attack, please explain.

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C.V
taxidave wrote:What I do not understand about the actual attack is that it happened right outside an army barracks so why didn't the soldiers on duty in there come out and sort the killers out themselves, had they done so we wouldn't now be having to guard two men in hospital nor pay for a trial, just a couple of burials.

Yes and me being a tax payer l can now look forward to paying to keep these two alive in prison for the rest of there lives.Wish some one could justify that to me.
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Malabus
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C.V wrote:
taxidave wrote:What I do not understand about the actual attack is that it happened right outside an army barracks so why didn't the soldiers on duty in there come out and sort the killers out themselves, had they done so we wouldn't now be having to guard two men in hospital nor pay for a trial, just a couple of burials.

Yes and me being a tax payer l can now look forward to paying to keep these two alive in prison for the rest of there lives.Wish some one could justify that to me.

And the tax payers paying for all this police time. 20 police on their hands and knees searching for evidence. This will be costing us 100,000 of pound sterling.

Bring back the post at Tyburn.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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The newspapers and the government are the real winners.

Rather than talking about the IMF warning to Osborne, slashing of legal aid, NHS arguments, or the gay marriage bill, the department for public prosecutions thoughts on releasing names of people charged even if innocent, or delays releasing unemployment and welfare to work data, or even the EU issue dividing the Tories, the dumb electorate are getting hysterical about Muslims.

Banks and business are laughing as everyone now turns a blind eye to the tax avoiding select committee hearings.

Newspapers can stop caring about Levesson and having to report against their pals in government and business.

Couldn't have come at a better time for the ruling elite.

Immigration in this country has always been a great diversion tactic by the ruling elite to avoid any blame to themselves for their own public policy and preserve the status quo to protect their positions whilst pursuing an ideological agenda.

It really is a great ruse where you can make people work for free in Poundland and tell them they are lazy skivers unless they get jobs which you don't exist whilst simultaneously closing their libraries, hospitals, social services and legal aid as well as allowing Tesco and Npower, and tax avoiding businesses to make massive profits out of them and still convince them you're on their side and it's in fact just immigrants to blame.
Last edited by RegencyCheltenhamSpa on 23 May 2013, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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C.V wrote:
taxidave wrote:What I do not understand about the actual attack is that it happened right outside an army barracks so why didn't the soldiers on duty in there come out and sort the killers out themselves, had they done so we wouldn't now be having to guard two men in hospital nor pay for a trial, just a couple of burials.

Yes and me being a tax payer l can now look forward to paying to keep these two alive in prison for the rest of there lives.Wish some one could justify that to me.
Will you apply the same thinking to the other murderers linked to in this thread?

Compare the cost of this operation to the policing of Thatcher's funeral.....or the hopeless attempt to outsource to G4S at the Olympics rather than using "our boys" etc etc

As per my long post just above, if you think a couple of prison sentences is all tax payers have to worry about you really have no concept of reality - you could be a poster boy (or maybe the picture on a mug would be more fitting) for Google and Amazon executives to have a good chuckle at whilst they are busy not selling anything in our nation.
C.V
Come on then clever cloggs whats your take on it then.Do you think it was staged ? it didnt happen? your happy to see people not talk discuss it?
You really p!ss me off you seem to want to argue with every one you have a different view to very one else.
I cant be bothered to read anymore of your post so from now on you are on my ignore list you annoying little runt.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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C.V wrote:Come on then clever cloggs whats your take on it then.Do you think it was staged ? it didnt happen? your happy to see people not talk discuss it?
You really p!ss me off you seem to want to argue with every one you have a different view to very one else.
I cant be bothered to read anymore of your post so from now on you are on my ignore list you annoying little runt.
I do not think it was staged. It was a disgusting and barbaric attack and everyone including me rightly condemns it.

I didn't say it was made up, rather, just that in a political sense the government will be grateful, whilst obviously still be angry and upset.

Nor did I say that people shouldn't talk about it - just that it's frustrating people get so hysterical about two nutters in a one off (to date, thank god, and hopefully remains that way) attack, and immigration in general, whilst seeming oblivious to other major political decisions which happen on a daily basis which will drastically change the way this country functions for ever.
baggy89
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I'd be willing to wager this isn't the first time this week, in London, that some Stone Island wearing black gangstas have stabbed another human being to death. The real question you have to ask yourself is WHY this is the one that is jumped on as front page news, considering all the other news items mentioned by RCS added to the ongoing trial of an English man up on charges of kidnapp, rape, murder and burning the body of a 5 year old girl.

Yes, this was a truly horrific act but there seems to be a huge media led shove to the extreme right. The media seem happy to portray these thugs as Islamic poster boys when the opposite is true, this combined with the positive press city boy Farage and his band of racists in suits get, is creating a very dangerous atmosphere within the UK. The exact atmosphere that creates the disenfranchisement charachtersised by acts such as this. The amount of posts on social media I have read today the espouse the EXACT same thoughts "eye for an eye" as the murderers did in their viral video, would lend more weight to any decision to leave the UK than a few immigrants would ever do.
RTT
Baggy89 I am sorry what is/ who is "Stone Island" ?
baggy89
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taxidave
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RCS your rants on here are becoming very monotonous, you really should stop reading the Guardian every day and join the real world. I find your left wing posts very disturbing, as I am sure many other level headed readers of this forum do.
You will be telling us next that the BBC offer a balanced view of events.
Last edited by taxidave on 23 May 2013, 21:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Malabus
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:Immigration in this country has always been a great diversion tactic by the ruling elite.
Have you seen the people that populate our major cities. Wake up RCS.
baggy89
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taxidave your moronic rumblings on here are becoming very moronic and rumbling, you really should stop reading the Daily Mail every day and join the real world. I find your idiotic posts very disturbing, as I am sure many other level headed readers of this forum do.
You will be telling us next that the BBC offer a balanced view of events.
EFA
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taxidave
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Oh dear the left wing looneys are uniting in their fight against the rest of the world, they will be telling us next that the IRA were really very nice people who were just misunderstood.
Ralph
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baggy89 wrote:
taxidave your moronic rumblings on here are becoming very moronic and rumbling, you really should stop reading the Daily Mail every day and join the real world. I find your idiotic posts very disturbing, as I am sure many other level headed readers of this forum do.
You will be telling us next that the BBC offer a balanced view of events.
EFA
Huh?
CS85
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"I'd be willing to wager this isn't the first time this week, in London, that some Stone Island wearing black gangstas have stabbed another human being to death. The real question you have to ask yourself is WHY this is the one that is jumped on as front page news, considering all the other news items mentioned by RCS added to the ongoing trial of an English man up on charges of kidnapp, rape, murder and burning the body of a 5 year old girl. "

Its probably covered different because the gangsters dont tend to get caught on video threatening the lives of other people due to religion.

Ive seen loads of comments on facebook and twitter along the lines of muslim is a peaceful religion and theres loads of peaceful muslims,yep cant argue with that,but then those lot cant argue that the huge majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muslims aswell.
How many bad attacks have been stopped since the london bombings that we dont really know about?,to f#!$ many i am willing to bet.
baggy89
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CS85 wrote:"I'd be willing to wager this isn't the first time this week, in London, that some Stone Island wearing black gangstas have stabbed another human being to death. The real question you have to ask yourself is WHY this is the one that is jumped on as front page news, considering all the other news items mentioned by RCS added to the ongoing trial of an English man up on charges of kidnapp, rape, murder and burning the body of a 5 year old girl. "

Its probably covered different because the gangsters dont tend to get caught on video threatening the lives of other people due to religion.

Ive seen loads of comments on facebook and twitter along the lines of muslim is a peaceful religion and theres loads of peaceful muslims,yep cant argue with that,but then those lot cant argue that the huge majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muslims aswell.
How many bad attacks have been stopped since the london bombings that we dont really know about?,to f#!$ many i am willing to bet.
You are aware that the IRA are still a terrorist organisation. How many attacks occur every week in NI that are barely reported on. Are they Muslims?

What actually defines this as a terror attack? As far as I can see it was a murder perpetrated by a couple of psychopaths who claim they did it because of religion.

Mark Bridger = psychopathic nut job, white probably CofE.

Michael Adebolajo = psychopathic nut job, black Muslim.

I really do struggle to understand why people get carried along in a wave of emotion whipped up by the media, when a cursory rational look at the situation would reveal quite clearly that all this is going to do is lead to further ostracization of black, arab, and asian communities, creating disenfranchisement and leading to more desperate acts.
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Malabus
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http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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taxidave wrote:RCS your rants on here are becoming very monotonous, you really should stop reading the Guardian every day and join the real world. I find your left wing posts very disturbing, as I am sure many other level headed readers of this forum do.
You will be telling us next that the BBC offer a balanced view of events.
Whilst I do read the Guardian, I certainly do not every day, and much of it is laughable. The Independent I find best in terms of different analysis and solution, and I make sure to buy a Telegraph and Financial Times once a month at least, as well as a couple of Economists a month for more analysis and policy opinions from people who know the subject they write about.

I invite you to tell me what you consider the real world to be and then tell me what you believe I have been doing in recent years that leads you to think that none of it was or is in the real world.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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taxidave wrote:Oh dear the left wing looneys are uniting in their fight against the rest of the world, they will be telling us next that the IRA were really very nice people who were just misunderstood.
So the fact I think the IRA are deplorable murderers and terrorists trying to prolong a useless war against our sovereign land proves I'm not a left-wing looney?

Just to re-assure us you know what you are talking about, can you explain what part of my long rant you considered especially left-wing. The main topics I mentioned are listed below if you want to put a simple 'yes or no' next to each to indicate if you consider that view to be left-wing lunacy:

1. Have a working and efficient NHS (Note - I used the Nuffield in Cheltenham more than the general): Yes or No?

2. Big companies not paying tax which creates a lack of competition with local small businesses (i.e. not a free market - equal tax for all companies would be a better functioning free-market capitalist economy). Yes or No?

3. Divisive politics creating a 'scroungers vs skivers' rhetoric to split the electorate rather than successful growth policy that creates jobs. Yes or No?

4. Cutting welfare to everyone, even the most needy, whereas a better way to cap welfare is to pay the same per person and reduce the number of people on it. Think about it - if there are 50 people too disabled to work, and 50 people who can work but have no job, then cutting welfare to them all leaves 100 worse off. Whereas, if you move the 50 people into work and pay the disabled 50 the same welfare without cutting it, no one is worse off and the 50 people and the economy is better off. So, the most efficient economic policy would be to promote economic growth and job creation amongst more businesses. Yes or No?

5. As per above two comments - making people work in Poundland for free to reduce public spending allows us to continue have vast amounts of public money held by nationalised banks and feeding a house price bubble through help-to-buy. If those banks acted as actual capitalist drivers for economic growth they'd be lending more to small businesses rather than squandering money on self-interests and then there'd be more jobs for people. Yes or No?

6. Energy companies would be a lot more respected if they invested vast revenues in greater levels of research and innovation would increase their profits and benefit research centres here and customers. Currently they operate a large oligopoly which does nothing to encourage liberal economic growth, whilst chasing after subsidies to build power plants. Subsidies which come from...the tax payer! A freer-market would provide better competition and service. Yes or No?

7. The relationship between media, government, and elite. Having been educated alongside, have family links to, and still keep in contact with contemporaries who amongst others work for Bloomberg, editorials at The Times, Reuters, Magic Circle law firms, Investment banks, big 4 accounting firms, and having met MPs and ministers whilst working for a pro-growth liberal think-tank in the Westminster bubble, I'm speaking from direct experience and knowledge rather than just making up socialist conspiracy theories. If you know better please tell me what I am missing. Yes or No.

I'd imagine your views on things that effect you are much more left-wing than mine.
asl
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Crikey...so job-creation is the answer to our welfare bill? Maybe I should read the broadsheets more often as clearly nobody else would have thought of that. If it's that simple, why have successive governments failed to achieve it...?
Dai pele
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taxidave wrote:RCS your rants on here are becoming very monotonous, you really should stop reading the Guardian every day and join the real world. I find your left wing posts very disturbing, as I am sure many other level headed readers of this forum do.
You will be telling us next that the BBC offer a balanced view of events.
I'm as level headed as they come and think Rcs makes many valid points. It's the knee jerk racism that bothers me,.......
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Joey
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asl wrote:Crikey...so job-creation is the answer to our welfare bill? Maybe I should read the broadsheets more often as clearly nobody else would have thought of that. If it's that simple, why have successive governments failed to achieve it...?
New Labour swept the social security issue under the carpet, we were in boom times, there was no need to worry about it.

It's more than a jobs crisis, it's also a wages crisis and a housing crisis.

This thread has gone quite off-track.
Ralph
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Dai pele wrote:
taxidave wrote:RCS your rants on here are becoming very monotonous, you really should stop reading the Guardian every day and join the real world. I find your left wing posts very disturbing, as I am sure many other level headed readers of this forum do.
You will be telling us next that the BBC offer a balanced view of events.
I'm as level headed as they come and think Rcs makes many valid points. It's the knee jerk racism that bothers me,.......
How about the knee jerk use of the word racism..laughable. it always gets thrown out there
CS85
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IRA,yep terrorists......and no not muslim,valid point,muslims carry out attacks weekly all over the world,nealy every other day.
Its evil end of.
Ralph
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Paris.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same thing happened in Paris now
baggy89
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Ralph wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Paris.html
same thing happened in Paris now
Quell Surprise, media hightlighting nutjobs, inspires other nutjobs...

"I vaant to be famoos"


pity the right wing media weren't more intent on printing this...

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"what's that?, they are?"

Who would have thunked it?
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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asl wrote:Crikey...so job-creation is the answer to our welfare bill? Maybe I should read the broadsheets more often as clearly nobody else would have thought of that. If it's that simple, why have successive governments failed to achieve it...?
Lol. That was taken as given and you know as well as anyone my post wasn't about saying we need job creation - so I'll ignore you sarcastic comment as it's irrelevant to what I wrote.

In fact the whole point of the post was to address why successive governments have failed at it to answer the question you asked!

Read through again (about the last four of my posts) and you'll see the gist of my opinion is that government's failure arises from self-serving policies amongst the ruling elite to protect their interests and agenda - with ineffective policy as a result - combined with a brain-dead electorate who cares more about immigration and celebrity consumerism to ever hold government to account or make them change.

When only 30% of people vote and some of them are not informed as you'd need to be to make a genuine decision (regardless of what that decision is) government has no imperative to change the status quo or develop innovative new policies to solve something which as you say has not yet been achieved.

Even on this forum people trying to discuss such things are insulted and criticised as everyone else is more concerned about OTT reporting on immigrants - current or future government (of any colour or direction) only need to look in this thread to be able to sleep easy that they're getting away with c*cking up millions of people's lives.
asl
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By the way, sarcasm aside, a few weeks back, I saw a very interesting piece about why 100% employment was actually A Very Bad Thing and would be very harmful to the UK should such a miracle occur. I'm no economist, but I thought it was interesting.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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asl wrote:By the way, sarcasm aside, a few weeks back, I saw a very interesting piece about why 100% employment was actually A Very Bad Thing and would be very harmful to the UK should such a miracle occur. I'm no economist, but I thought it was interesting.
I have never stated on here full employment is a good thing - it is not and there is ample historical evidence of flaws of pursuing such a policy as you correctly reference.

There is an optimal rate of unemployment (don't know what but I imagine around 3% in this country, so less than current 7.7%). This 3% should really be made up up frictional, voluntary, seasonal and cyclical unemployment as these are needed to ensure growth with a mobile and dynamic labour force ready where required, and also indicate a good churn in business numbers and dynamism in the economy. By it's nature most of this is short-term. (http://www.econport.org/content/handboo ... Types.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whereas in the UK a lot of the current unemployment is structural unemployment - a fundamental problem with there not being enough people with skills for the jobs we have and not enough jobs for a lot of the long-term unemployed people who don't have jobs. This is long-term, difficult to change and a sign of a long stagnating economy.

This has manifested in several ways:

former industrial workers with no prospects of working in high street banks or coffee shops;
the rise of globalisation and the fact the prices demanded by consumers in this country are not compatible with wages demanded by domestic workers (hence imports and immigration);
a lack of young people with good skills in high-tech engineering in particular, and a general view that 'learning is bad/boring' amongst a lot of people these days - which means again that a lot of our most value-added industries (advanced manufacturing, finance, R&D, Pharmna etc) are packed full of people from all round the world as we don't have the skills here.
RTT
The Milton Freedman/Mrs Thatcher ideology was that there would be 10% unemployment, mostly made up of transient umemployment.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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RTT wrote:The Milton Freedman/Mrs Thatcher ideology was that there would be 10% unemployment, mostly made up of transient umemployment.
No wonder she did her best to make as many people unemployed as she could then. I personally can't see how we can sustain 10% in this day and age, though for most of MFs career economies were a different place so may have been feasible, especially given the rapid construction in and development of America from 1940-1960.

Also, I still love how Milton Keynes is named after two adversaries - if only all arguments could be settled in such a manner.
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Malabus
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Now they are vandalizing our war memorials now.

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/lond ... _1_2211197" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
asl
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I wonder... My first thought when I saw that disgraceful vandalism was "what a great way for the EDL, BNP and UKIP to stir up trouble..."
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:Now they are vandalizing our war memorials now.

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/lond ... _1_2211197" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Who are 'they'?

It won't end. Now some EDL chavs will go attack a Mosque in 'revenge', so some Jihadists will do something else in 'revenge', then EDL something else, etc etc.

Until the morons on both sides are dealt with are we going to have to have link to every incident?

On a side note, I don't usually comment on literacy, but your American use of the letter z looks ghastly. It really stands out as an eyesore. One assumes your spell checker did that, but ignored the double use of the word 'now'. Still one of the biggest flaws still of spell checkers - hopefully the EDL will sort that as well. Could join forces with UK Uncut and torch Google's office on High Holborn.
TechSupport
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Malabus wrote:Now they are vandalizing our war memorials now.

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/lond ... _1_2211197" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Who are 'they'?

It won't end. Now some EDL chavs will go attack a Mosque in 'revenge', so some Jihadists will do something else in 'revenge', then EDL something else, etc etc.

Until the morons on both sides are dealt with are we going to have to have link to every incident?

On a side note, I don't usually comment on literacy, but your American use of the letter z looks ghastly. It really stands out as an eyesore. One assumes your spell checker did that, but ignored the double use of the word 'now'. Still one of the biggest flaws still of spell checkers - hopefully the EDL will sort that as well. Could join forces with UK Uncut and torch Google's office on High Holborn.
Did your spell checker fail to pick up the double "still" as well?
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