coronovirus

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King giraffe iii
Posts: 232
Joined: 02 Feb 2016, 17:47
Ihearye wrote:
King giraffe iii wrote:
Ihearye wrote:As I said before, it amazes me how people can make a political football out of anything.
You either stick by a strategy of delay or follow the 'herd'. As and when more information comes in on the virus from other countries. The nuances of the strategy are obviously going to be honed.
It beggars belief that all of a sudden, people have all become experts in virus spread simulations. Are obviously getting the medical data from the likes of Italy and Spain, upon which to base their rantings. Not only that, they know how to interpret that data, but how to make decisions that will impact the spread of the virus.

@ Robin, of course there is a financial aspect. Just as it is financial to not close every workplace. Surely the difference is, the same policy is being applied to all sports. If some have chosen to take one path, then that is their choice. I only hope come July when we haven’t had a penny come into the club, that those who told us to close down last week are going to put their hands in their pockets and provide compensation. As things look at the minute, we could have had most of the season played out before we were told to shut down.

As for the herd immunisation. Is it not possible that a policy of delay and flattening out the curve, will have as a by-product, the wider immunisation of the herd? Without it being the direct policy? People should stop speculating and scrutinising every sentence that is uttered. Either that or maybe, cut themselves off from the rest of civilisation and do not leave your house for a year. Stone age here we come!! These people giving the country advise, are top of their own fields. With teams behind them doing nothing all day but crunch the data coming in from the rest of the world. Then seeing how that can be applied to our current policy. I would suggest, they are in a better place to advise than the hacks who work for our rags. Or Mrs Smith form Weston who has had a cold for a week, but has been refused a ventilator by the NHS
Stone age? It was the iron age a day or so ago. ;) I've yet to see the rest of western Europe lose all of its technology. By your own reasoning you seem to have become an expert yourself knowing what's best for everyone. Perhaps you should ask why people such as myself don't trust a government led by an individual who is a proven liar and whose approach seems based on blustering and oafish bumbling.

At the moment we just don't know about the herd immunity. The government are taking a massive gamble here and their lackadaisical approach to testing (and then whipping people out of the community, together with tracing those people who they've been in close contact with) seems at odds with the WHO. I guess the WHO and the rest of the world only employs scientific advisors who are completely unqualified?

They are gambling with lives. Clearly that's acceptable from your perspective. The lack of testing stinks to me of a government that is (a) clueless and/or (b) cooking the figures for its own benefit.

This government - and I would criticise any government following the path Bozo and his crew have taken - is sat on its hands and so far, beyond NHS mobilisation, has done nothing but tell everyone to wash their hands more. Take schools - there seems this idea in government circles that these places somehow run without adult intervention. Who is going to staff them when we've all taken receipt of the children's germs? Never mind those children who pick the virus up at school and then go home to infect their parents. All it needs is one irresponsible family to send their sick child into school. And it will happen. But it doesn't matter because children don't get the virus bad. What about granny or dad who has a lowered immune system because of other illness or therapy?

I could go on but I won't. You get the idea. Stiff upper lip, bluster, inaction and blind faith may be right for you. That's cool. Me, I wouldn't trust Bozo and his cronies as far as I can throw them.

As for Wayne Rooney, what's your point? Given I've no idea what his view is on things I'm guessing you're playing the guilt through a similar idea card.
To be perfectly honest with, I stopped reading once you started the old political football thing. This is much to serious for descending to that level of immaturity. You have an agenda, I get it. no more to be said
Yup, easier to bury your head in the sand and brand me immature than question why the UK is going against WHO pandemic policy. Doesn't that count as serious? Apparently not by your reckoning.

WHO policy is tried and tested but, clearly, Johnny Foreigner has no idea what is doing. This WHO thing with decades of learning from what has happened with epidemics and pandemics. I guess it's immature to mention their expertise.

Again, I would criticise any government of any colour for following the policy of inaction.
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Ihearye
Posts: 3592
Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
KG
Yes your impartiality shines thru lol
“why people such as myself don't trust a government led by an individual who is a proven liar and whose approach seems based on blustering and oafish bumbling."
“That's cool. Me, I wouldn't trust Bozo and his cronies as far as I can throw them."

As far as the WHO is concerned. Their advice as per 15/03 is as below. And for the life of me, I can’t see how it differs to much from the advise being given here in the UK. : -

If you are in an area where there are cases of COVID-19 you need to take the risk of infection seriously.
Follow the advice of WHO and guidance issued by national and local health authorities.
For most people,COVID-19 infection will cause mild illness however, it can make some people very ill and, in some people, it can be fatal. Older people, and those with pre-existing medical conditions (such as cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease or diabetes) are at risk for severe disease. Advice is to follow prevention guidance.
WHO prevention guidance
Wash your hands frequently
Regularly and thoroughly clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand rub or wash them with soap and water.
Why? Washing your hands with soap and water or using alcohol-based hand rub kills viruses that may be on your hands.
Maintain social distancing
Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES WHO’s - strategic objectives for this response are to:•Interrupt human-to-human transmission including reducing secondary infections among close contacts and health care workers, preventing transmission amplification events, and preventing further international spread*;•Identify, isolate and care for patients early, including providing optimized care for infected patients;•Identify and reduce transmission from the animal source;•Address crucial unknowns regarding clinical severity, extent of transmission and infection, treatment options, and accelerate the development of diagnostics, therapeutics and vaccines;•Communicate critical risk and event information to all communities and counter misinformation;•Minimize social and economic impact through multisectoral partnerships.*
This can be achieved through a combination of public health measures, such as rapid identification, diagnosis and management of the cases, identification and follow up of the contacts, infection prevention and control in healthcare settings, implementation of health measures for travellers, awareness-raising in the population and risk communication

Also interesting to note the figures from the WHO as of 15/03

Italy (in lockdown) - New cases in last 24 hours 3497
UK not locked down - new cases 342.

Of course italy are further ahead than us, however, it would seem to show that lock down is not the ultimate panacea?
asl
Posts: 6788
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:37
Perhaps it implies Italy was too slow in responding?

Take a look at the modelling on that link I provided. It shows very clearly why not-very-strict social distancing does little but push the peak slightly further down the line.

But, like I say, it could be that the UK advisors are right and everyone else is wrong. I am not a scientist (but nor do I necessarily believe everything I'm told by the authorities without question: if I did, I'd be American.)
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Shade
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Location: Cheltenhamshire
Just keep your distance from others, keep washing your hands, don't touch your face with your hands until after you have done so, and steralize your surfaces often and you don't need to panic. If you feel ill, lock yourself inside and don't come out until you're more than over it. It really isn't f#!$ hard.
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Ihearye
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
Shade wrote:Just keep your distance from others, keep washing your hands, don't touch your face with your hands until after you have done so, and steralize your surfaces often and you don't need to panic. If you feel ill, lock yourself inside and don't come out until you're more than over it. It really isn't f#!$ hard.
The words of someone who has been listening! ;)
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Ihearye
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
asl wrote:Perhaps it implies Italy was too slow in responding?

Take a look at the modelling on that link I provided. It shows very clearly why not-very-strict social distancing does little but push the peak slightly further down the line.

But, like I say, it could be that the UK advisors are right and everyone else is wrong. I am not a scientist (but nor do I necessarily believe everything I'm told by the authorities without question: if I did, I'd be American.)
Indeed, that is what is being attempted, same AUC, but distributed over a longer period of time, ensuring that hospitals don't exceed capacity. It is noticeable that epidemiologists are by and large behind the techniques being taken here. Other scientists should be best sticking to their own area of expertise :) Apart from Shade, who got it spot on !!
#flattenthecurve.
King giraffe iii
Posts: 232
Joined: 02 Feb 2016, 17:47
Ihearye wrote:KG
Yes your impartiality shines thru lol
“why people such as myself don't trust a government led by an individual who is a proven liar and whose approach seems based on blustering and oafish bumbling."
“That's cool. Me, I wouldn't trust Bozo and his cronies as far as I can throw them."

As far as the WHO is concerned. Their advice as per 15/03 is as below. And for the life of me, I can’t see how it differs to much from the advise being given here in the UK. : -

If you are in an area where there are cases of COVID-19 you need to take the risk of infection seriously.
Follow the advice of WHO and guidance issued by national and local health authorities.
For most people,COVID-19 infection will cause mild illness however, it can make some people very ill and, in some people, it can be fatal. Older people, and those with pre-existing medical conditions (such as cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease or diabetes) are at risk for severe disease. Advice is to follow prevention guidance.
WHO prevention guidance
Wash your hands frequently
Regularly and thoroughly clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand rub or wash them with soap and water.
Why? Washing your hands with soap and water or using alcohol-based hand rub kills viruses that may be on your hands.
Maintain social distancing
Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES WHO’s - strategic objectives for this response are to:•Interrupt human-to-human transmission including reducing secondary infections among close contacts and health care workers, preventing transmission amplification events, and preventing further international spread*;•Identify, isolate and care for patients early, including providing optimized care for infected patients;•Identify and reduce transmission from the animal source;•Address crucial unknowns regarding clinical severity, extent of transmission and infection, treatment options, and accelerate the development of diagnostics, therapeutics and vaccines;•Communicate critical risk and event information to all communities and counter misinformation;•Minimize social and economic impact through multisectoral partnerships.*
This can be achieved through a combination of public health measures, such as rapid identification, diagnosis and management of the cases, identification and follow up of the contacts, infection prevention and control in healthcare settings, implementation of health measures for travellers, awareness-raising in the population and risk communication

Also interesting to note the figures from the WHO as of 15/03

Italy (in lockdown) - New cases in last 24 hours 3497
UK not locked down - new cases 342.

Of course italy are further ahead than us, however, it would seem to show that lock down is not the ultimate panacea?
Lockdown as a solitary action isn't the answer. Don't be disingenuous and make out it's the only thing I'm suggesting.

I can't help with your scientific illiteracy if you can't distinguish between the current approach and the prevention of 'transmission amplification events'.

Bozo, Steptoe. It matters not. The current inactivity is negligence. You ought to team up with OTC, he's getting his knickers in a twist elsewhere about us members of the supposed question the supposed fifth column who dare question the current inaction.

Maybe this press conference going on that I've not heard may change my view, but at the moment I'm just amazed by the inaction.
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Malabus
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Location: The Death Star.
No large social gatherings for at least 16 weeks.
Game over.
asl
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That's it...UK now in line with everyone else, I think.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
asl wrote:That's it...UK now in line with everyone else, I think.
There’s only so long you can ignore global experts.

We haven’t closed bars, cafes etc yet. Guessing that will come when people ignore the guidance and go to these places anyway, as happened in Italy and Spain.
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Malabus
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
asl wrote:That's it...UK now in line with everyone else, I think.
There’s only so long you can ignore global experts.

We haven’t closed bars, cafes etc yet. Guessing that will come when people ignore the guidance and go to these places anyway, as happened in Italy and Spain.
Clubs; pubs, theaters and large social areas to be avoided : PM daily update.
asl
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:37
Yes, but no forced closures is RCS's point. Frankly, I don't see how the owners can keep them open with no customers or staff.
The Old TomCat
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Joined: 03 Aug 2012, 12:49
Location: Stroud
King giraffe iii wrote:[ You ought to team up with OTC, he's getting his knickers in a twist elsewhere about us members of the supposed question the supposed fifth column who dare question the current inaction.
KG, keep my name out of your posts.
I've not posted on TRN and don't really want to.
If you have issue, please reply on correct forum.
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Ihearye
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018, 08:08
KG and it is not my fault you can't take in facts. the prevention of 'transmission amplification events'. was always declared as being an option. The skill is deciding when it can be best used to keep the figures AUC. Maybe if you listened to what the Bozp' said, you may learn something. But I forgot they are liars and cronies
SHANDY VOR
Posts: 581
Joined: 12 Aug 2012, 16:13
I've never really had any friends to speak of, and any family I had have kept their distance for many years. I very rarely leave the house as I don't like people.

I knew it would pay dividends one day.

I'll turn the lights off as I shuffle off.
plymrob
Posts: 368
Joined: 11 Jul 2014, 14:03
Come on guys and girls.. Most of these posts are other football / political. Where's the common law? Shove this away Ralph.
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Malabus
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Location: The Death Star.
plymrob wrote:Come on guys and girls.. Most of these posts are other football / political. Where's the common law? Shove this away Ralph.
That's why I put a new thread up.

Gone off topic on this thread.

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Hubert Parry
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I'm genuinely starting to believe that the government's measures could be in place for the very long haul, maybe up to 18 months

I'm actually more concerned about the survival of the club (among many other things) at this point than whether this season will ever complete.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
We are definitely going to get some sort of lockdown here and due to the governments lack of leadership and swift action it could last months. That said I still do not see why the season can simply not be played later rather than cancelling it entirely other than going past the point where player registration no longer applies.
ctfc-fan
Posts: 1953
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 12:00
Robin wrote:We are definitely going to get some sort of lockdown here and due to the governments lack of leadership and swift action it could last months. That said I still do not see why the season can simply not be played later rather than cancelling it entirely other than going past the point where player registration no longer applies.
It could be worse if they acted too quickly Dr Robin.
Robin
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:19
Why would it be worse if they acted earlier? Perhaps the Port Vale game would have been postponed but likely the season would have re-started much sooner. It's very obvious the government got this badly wrong and have had to back track quickly in recent days.
ctfc-fan
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Because if you quarantine too early you risk the virus re-emerging when everyone comes out and it could be worse.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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ctfc-fan wrote:Because if you quarantine too early you risk the virus re-emerging when everyone comes out and it could be worse.
I think that is still a genuine concern. Hard to know what the exit strategy is from isolation and distancing. Infection rates are too low to build herd immunity so do we just go on lockdown until there is a vaccine, or wait until we think everyone infected has either recovered or died and no unknown cases exist? I have absolutely no idea but it would be helpful if one of the experts, whether WHO, UK universities or whoever explained this - if they know of course.

I know that Singapore and S Korea etc did full lockdown on day one are now on the downward slope with more people recovering each day than what get infected - be interesting to see how many months until they reach zero, compared to Italy say.
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Malabus
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I think we need to understand that Coronavirus (Coronaviridae) is a sub family term for many viruses like SARS-CoV & MERS-CoV. People should use the correct name Covid-19.

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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Malabus wrote:I think we need to understand that Coronavirus (Coronaviridae) is a sub family term for many viruses like SARS-CoV & MERS-CoV. People should use the correct name Covid-19.

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Good point.
asl
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Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:37
Search out Leo Varadkar's speech to the nation, tonight. Bare in mind that Ireland have fewer cases than us and began locking down before we did.

If you weren't concerned before, you might be utterly terrified by the time you finish listening.

https://www.facebook.com/25755829427318 ... 839057228/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Ihearye
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As hard as it is to believe, I am on same page as RCS. Like I have said before. You don’t go into taking drastic measures, until you have a good idea what an exit point looks like, or the likely consequences of taking that action. How many weeks of no infections, or deaths have to elapse, before lifting lockdown? The theory of immediate lockdown and then releasing the virus again to a compromised population, before a vaccine is ready. Could see the virus return again in time for next winter. And so the merry-go-round continues.

@ Robin – You continue to make this ludicrous statements. Explain to us all, how the government has gotten this badly wrong? The time to call that one, is IF the plan being followed turns out to fail. It is no time for political baiting. They have explained the plan they are being advised to take and so far (apart from wine stocks running low in the supermarkets), it seems to be working. As far as any plan can work when they know such devastation to many families will happen.

@ ASL – LV is only saying what the UK Gov has been saying for some time, that this is going to be a long process. A fact he did little to endorse, when he announced schools were closing for 2 weeks! Also pubs were asked (not ordered , same as here), to close on 15/03. Here it was 16/03. All this shows it is nuances.
I don’t think any country will get it 100% correct, but without any facts some are very quick to say we have got it all wrong. We will know in time if we did or if they early lockdown approach was correct.

Don’t you think it is a bit easy to say early lockdown works, if you don’t know what happens after? Just like it is too early to say UK approach is wrong, as there is no evidence of that.

In the words of Shade – wash your hands and keep a distance as much as possible. And settle in for the long haul
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Ihearye
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Back to the football - I would hope that the gov financial help, will apply to football clubs (if required). Also the EFL should put their hands in their pockets for any matches called off before the Government issued its advice.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:Back to the football - I would hope that the gov financial help, will apply to football clubs (if required). Also the EFL should put their hands in their pockets for any matches called off before the Government issued its advice.
Barnet Chairman was interviewed on 5Live last night as they have given redundancy notice to all non core football staff. When asked about Government financial support he said Barnet would be eligible but as it was a loan it would just add debt to the club which they don’t want to do. Maybe clubs who have to choose between bankruptcy and the loan would happily take on the debt of course, and neither do I know what the interest or terms are.
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Ihearye
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He must have read, digested and discussed the permutations, of all those details pretty quick!!
Have no idea about their wage structure (obviously). However I would guess that non core football staff are not earning a fortune. Would be interesting to know how many CTFC staff fall into the grouping of 'non core football staff'. Would find it hard to believe that getting rid of the 'low hanging fruit', would save that much on a debt. Ok at this level every £ helps, but there is a moral question here too. Doesn't seem like the we are all in this together attitude of a lower leagues football club.
Guess we will have to find out what 'very favorable' rates are. Along with the pay back period. I presume they are also in the frame for Business rates relief etc etc
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Ihearye
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Just when you thought it was all bad news every day - Eastenders have suspended filming!!!!
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Ihearye
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Ihearye wrote:Back to the football - I would hope that the gov financial help, will apply to football clubs (if required). Also the EFL should put their hands in their pockets for any matches called off before the Government issued its advice.
Barnet Chairman was interviewed on 5Live last night as they have given redundancy notice to all non core football staff. When asked about Government financial support he said Barnet would be eligible but as it was a loan it would just add debt to the club which they don’t want to do. Maybe clubs who have to choose between bankruptcy and the loan would happily take on the debt of course, and neither do I know what the interest or terms are.
Seems loans are 0% for 6 months then < 5% (yet to be decided) thereafter. But definitely lower than any Bank rate being offered at the minute
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Ihearye wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Ihearye wrote:Back to the football - I would hope that the gov financial help, will apply to football clubs (if required). Also the EFL should put their hands in their pockets for any matches called off before the Government issued its advice.
Barnet Chairman was interviewed on 5Live last night as they have given redundancy notice to all non core football staff. When asked about Government financial support he said Barnet would be eligible but as it was a loan it would just add debt to the club which they don’t want to do. Maybe clubs who have to choose between bankruptcy and the loan would happily take on the debt of course, and neither do I know what the interest or terms are.
Seems loans are 0% for 6 months then < 5% (yet to be decided) thereafter. But definitely lower than any Bank rate being offered at the minute
Cheers.
King giraffe iii
Posts: 232
Joined: 02 Feb 2016, 17:47
Ihearye wrote:KG and it is not my fault you can't take in facts. the prevention of 'transmission amplification events'. was always declared as being an option. The skill is deciding when it can be best used to keep the figures AUC. Maybe if you listened to what the Bozp' said, you may learn something. But I forgot they are liars and cronies
I've taken in facts, simple. It's taken this long to close schools. Too late where I work. I'm on 14 days self-isolation now as with the rest of the staff. God knows how many kids exposed and potentially having spread it to family. And what of the people they've come into contact with? But, yes, schools were 'a safe environment'. Oh well.
King giraffe iii
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The Old TomCat wrote:
King giraffe iii wrote:[ You ought to team up with OTC, he's getting his knickers in a twist elsewhere about us members of the supposed question the supposed fifth column who dare question the current inaction.
KG, keep my name out of your posts.
I've not posted on TRN and don't really want to.
If you have issue, please reply on correct forum.
I don't have an account on that forum, OTC. I don't intend post on any forum where it is deemed acceptable for you, OTC, to make cringeworthy racist 'jokes' about the Chinese.

By the way OTC, you've said you've not posted on here but your user profile suggests otherwise. In fact you've only got to do a search to find you've left plenty of posts here.
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