throwing the baby out with the bath water

[Robin]

There is no getting away from the fact we are a complete mess but for me there is a danger we go overboard from here and put ourselves in a spiral that sees us struggling against relegation in the league below. We need changes but we also need some continuity and a strong short and medium plan to turn things around. Darrell Clarke is an excellent appointment so we need to back him all the way.

Short term I feel we need the following:
1. DC to review the entire set-up of the coaching and non-playing football staff. We appear to have given jobs to former players but are they really what we want? Equally some of them may be good coaches and problems lie elsewhere. Recruitment needs a lot of attention, this might cost Rusty his job but this needs to be addressed quickly so we can have a successful window in January. I see this as the priority for DC over the next few weeks i.e. get the foundations right here.
2. We need to improve the non-playing side that means we need to invest in a CEO, the board are well intentioned volunteers but let's be honest they are are big part of why we are in this mess. I want to see this happening quickly and this person needs to fit with DC and run the club on a day to day basis.
3. We can't change much until January but we need to find some funds so DC can bring in a free transfer or two who can improve the team. If we don't it will cost more longer term I suspect.
4. We need to get some of the fringe players out on loan to the national league. This can help some prepare for next season with us (those who are contracted) in league two or potentially find a permanent home for some of them too (Adshead, Chapman the obvious two).

If we can address the above over the coming weeks then hopefully we can make some changes in January, sending the majority of loans back, pushing out players who clearly are miles from first team like Bradbury, Chapman, Adshead and bringing in a few players who will be here next season regardless of what league we are in so come the summer we at least have the foundation of a competitive team.

Finally I appreciate this may be controversial but we may need to consider selling Ferry and Southwood in January if they are not willing to sign a new deal (which presumably they won't be given we are likely going down).

Thoughts?

[longmover]

DC's coaching staff (in) will be a quick win, any coaching staff affiliated to WE's regime need to go asap.

DC's made is quite obvious there's players here who aren't at the level required and pretty sure he already has a list of who he wants gone. As for recruitment seeing as we have no DOF then this is down to DC and RM, though I would want DC having full reign over this, I'd like to think his contact book is a lot bigger than Milton's and he's probably made some moves in that department already. As for Milton I think its high time we moved him away from anything to do with the first team

I still feel this season is not a right off, I would like to think DC and the players are not in that mindset as well so lets concentrate on catching up with the teams above us.

The board will be the issue, they have made it quiet clear a CEO is not what's required so can't see how they will 'now' allow one, if we do get relegated then money will be even tighter and they can easily rebuff any call for one and give that very reason. We have a part time chairman who believes 'hope' and 'luck' will get us through these tough times. This is what we're dealing with at boardroom level.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

The last Trust update said the Trust is working on its mission and action plan.

Is it time for the Trust Board to become a de facto shadow CTFC Board?

By which I mean:
- Releasing business plan suggestions for different elements of operations as per suggestions above in this thread, and for infrastructure at Seasons and WR or elsewhere.

- Doing a shadow Chairperson’s interview every month with JP about the current season and future plans.

- Even asking Darrell to shadow Board meetings to get his views on what he wants to see at the Club.

A shadow Board being so visible might force the actual Board to be doing more of this stuff.

[horlickfanclub]

Paul Godfrey is not a volunteer. The rest of the Board are more than "well intentioned". That is patronising. I doubt that many football clubs at our level have all paid Directors.
Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

In response to Regency. The Trust needs to fill internal posts to expand its influence with credibility.It also needs a bigger shareholding and/or backing from a larger group or from an individual shareholder.

[Jerry St Clair]

Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

They don't need a magic wand. Just time, focus and capability.

I believe all of our Directors have full time jobs running companies or in senior positions away from CTFC? This means they juggle running CTFC in between their day job. A full-time CEO with complete responsibility and full focus on non-football club matters can only benefit us.

[QED]

Finally I appreciate this may be controversial but we may need to consider selling Ferry and Southwood in January if they are not willing to sign a new deal (which presumably they won't be given we are likely going down).

Thoughts?

They wouldn’t command enough of a fee in January to justify losing them 5 months early. No club will pay what we‘d want when they’ll be available for nothing end of season. They’ll both be off for nothing in the summer.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Paul Godfrey is not a volunteer. The rest of the Board are more than "well intentioned". That is patronising. I doubt that many football clubs at our level have all paid Directors.
Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

In response to Regency. The Trust needs to fill internal posts to expand its influence with credibility.It also needs a bigger shareholding and/or backing from a larger group or from an individual shareholder.

Being more visible and vocal is the best way for the Trust to attract new members which in turn grows its shareholding.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

They don't need a magic wand. Just time, focus and capability.

I believe all of our Directors have full time jobs running companies or in senior positions away from CTFC? This means they juggle running CTFC in between their day job. A full-time CEO with complete responsibility and full focus on non-football club matters can only benefit us.

Precisely. Here’s a simple question:
- If you’re a corporate investor who wants to discuss sponsoring a stand or bar or something for a local sports team who at CTFC do you call?
- And if when calling CTFC the reception says there’s no senior leadership team available to talk because they have day jobs, but when calling FGR, Gloucester Rugby and Gloucestershire Cricket their CEOs speak to you and arrange to meet later that day or the next day are you going to bother calling CTFC back?

[Robin]

Paul Godfrey is not a volunteer. The rest of the Board are more than "well intentioned". That is patronising. I doubt that many football clubs at our level have all paid Directors.
Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

In response to Regency. The Trust needs to fill internal posts to expand its influence with credibility.It also needs a bigger shareholding and/or backing from a larger group or from an individual shareholder.

If you cannot or refuse to acknowledge the board are a big part of the current problem then how do you suggest we move forward Please answer the question and don't dodge it.

[Robin]

DC's coaching staff (in) will be a quick win, any coaching staff affiliated to WE's regime need to go asap.

DC's made is quite obvious there's players here who aren't at the level required and pretty sure he already has a list of who he wants gone. As for recruitment seeing as we have no DOF then this is down to DC and RM, though I would want DC having full reign over this, I'd like to think his contact book is a lot bigger than Milton's and he's probably made some moves in that department already. As for Milton I think its high time we moved him away from anything to do with the first team

I still feel this season is not a right off, I would like to think DC and the players are not in that mindset as well so lets concentrate on catching up with the teams above us.

The board will be the issue, they have made it quiet clear a CEO is not what's required so can't see how they will 'now' allow one, if we do get relegated then money will be even tighter and they can easily rebuff any call for one and give that very reason. We have a part time chairman who believes 'hope' and 'luck' will get us through these tough times. This is what we're dealing with at boardroom level.

Curious as to why you say this? Russell apparently is well respected in the game, whilst coaching has been a problem it cannot all be down to that, surely there are some in that group who should be up to it for example some were here last season when we were clear of the relegation scrap so what has changed? I feel we need a critical assessment and not sweeping changes entirely for the sake of it.

[Robin]

Finally I appreciate this may be controversial but we may need to consider selling Ferry and Southwood in January if they are not willing to sign a new deal (which presumably they won't be given we are likely going down).

Thoughts?

They wouldn’t command enough of a fee in January to justify losing them 5 months early. No club will pay what we‘d want when they’ll be available for nothing end of season. They’ll both be off for nothing in the summer.

I believe we could get six low figures for Ferry in January and reasonable five figures for Southwood. It's also less about those fees and bringing in their replacements now so they can hit the ground running next summer and we then don't need an entire new squad.

[andgarod]

I believe we could get six low figures for Ferry in January and reasonable five figures for Southwood. It's also less about those fees and bringing in their replacements now so they can hit the ground running next summer and we then don't need an entire new squad.

Dont forget there may be gentleman agreements not to mention relegation clauses to let them go cheap

I dont think we would get more than 50K for both
I do agree it needs to be done in January

[art vandalay]

I don’t think we’d get much for them either but if we’re as good as down by Christmas, and it’s looking increasingly like that will be the case, we may as well offload some players who won’t be around next season and bring in ones who we want to be here. I can see some of the loanees going as well as seven is just desperate - much better to give time to someone like Lloyd to see if he can make the breakthrough than to another team’s player.

[horlickfanclub]

Paul Godfrey is not a volunteer. The rest of the Board are more than "well intentioned". That is patronising. I doubt that many football clubs at our level have all paid Directors.
Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

In response to Regency. The Trust needs to fill internal posts to expand its influence with credibility.It also needs a bigger shareholding and/or backing from a larger group or from an individual shareholder.

If you cannot or refuse to acknowledge the board are a big part of the current problem then how do you suggest we move forward Please answer the question and don't dodge it.

[longmover]

DC's coaching staff (in) will be a quick win, any coaching staff affiliated to WE's regime need to go asap.

DC's made is quite obvious there's players here who aren't at the level required and pretty sure he already has a list of who he wants gone. As for recruitment seeing as we have no DOF then this is down to DC and RM, though I would want DC having full reign over this, I'd like to think his contact book is a lot bigger than Milton's and he's probably made some moves in that department already. As for Milton I think its high time we moved him away from anything to do with the first team

I still feel this season is not a right off, I would like to think DC and the players are not in that mindset as well so lets concentrate on catching up with the teams above us.

The board will be the issue, they have made it quiet clear a CEO is not what's required so can't see how they will 'now' allow one, if we do get relegated then money will be even tighter and they can easily rebuff any call for one and give that very reason. We have a part time chairman who believes 'hope' and 'luck' will get us through these tough times. This is what we're dealing with at boardroom level.

Curious as to why you say this? Russell apparently is well respected in the game, whilst coaching has been a problem it cannot all be down to that, surely there are some in that group who should be up to it for example some were here last season when we were clear of the relegation scrap so what has changed? I feel we need a critical assessment and not sweeping changes entirely for the sake of it.

We had May last season, this season we have played eleven games and not scored a goal.

[Ihearye]

Paul Godfrey is not a volunteer. The rest of the Board are more than "well intentioned". That is patronising. I doubt that many football clubs at our level have all paid Directors.
Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

In response to Regency. The Trust needs to fill internal posts to expand its influence with credibility.It also needs a bigger shareholding and/or backing from a larger group or from an individual shareholder.

I am sure they are more than 'well intention-ed', but certainly risk adverse, verging on lack of ambition. I know it simplifies things, but if being on the board equates to - we bring in X £000 per year, so we look to spend X £000-1. Therefore all our ambitions, forward planning, appointments , wages, team building, incentives, has to fall within that amount.
Like I said before, if that is the case, merely purchase a Workday Adaptive plug-in and keep within those boundaries. The football club will then find the level that it can be sustained at. As we have seen, L2 is now getting clubs which are getting more investment, so if we continue doing the simple maths, we may as well sell seasons for development and prepare for non league
I presumed people wanted to join a football Board, because they wanted to push forward, not just survive. If just survival, I fail to see why they would or should want to be involved. Also, without being personal or abusive, I would hope they welcomed criticism if it is given for the right reasons

[QED]

Just to reiterate I can’t see any club paying a fee for a player over 25 with less than six months on their contract, and no agent would push for a move with a fee in those circumstances when they could get half of that fee as a signing bonus for their client instead. If we want to cash in on anyone, we‘ll need them to have a contract to 2025.

[Robin]

Accrington sold a player for £300k (Dion Charles) with less than six months on his contract the other January. If the situation is leave or don't play games then the club can take partial control over that situation.

[Shade]

If it was possible, I'd just terminate Southwood's contract in January just to save on his wages, but it'll probably cost too much. We were told the club pulled out all the stops to get him back. I can almost guarantee his wage isn't worth it.

[Ihearye]

If it was possible, I'd just terminate Southwood's contract in January just to save on his wages, but it'll probably cost too much. We were told the club pulled out all the stops to get him back. I can almost guarantee his wage isn't worth it.

Not worth it in so far as having a half decent keeper is wasted in that team?

[Robin]

If it was possible, I'd just terminate Southwood's contract in January just to save on his wages, but it'll probably cost too much. We were told the club pulled out all the stops to get him back. I can almost guarantee his wage isn't worth it.

You'd spend money to pay him off and then who would you replace him with?

[Ihearye]

Why would a CEO have a magic wand?

They don't need a magic wand. Just time, focus and capability.

I believe all of our Directors have full time jobs running companies or in senior positions away from CTFC? This means they juggle running CTFC in between their day job. A full-time CEO with complete responsibility and full focus on non-football club matters can only benefit us.

Precisely. Here’s a simple question:
- If you’re a corporate investor who wants to discuss sponsoring a stand or bar or something for a local sports team who at CTFC do you call?
- And if when calling CTFC the reception says there’s no senior leadership team available to talk because they have day jobs, but when calling FGR, Gloucester Rugby and Gloucestershire Cricket their CEOs speak to you and arrange to meet later that day or the next day are you going to bother calling CTFC back?

valid scenrio

[Lord Elpuz]

Getting the Trust to act like a Shadow Board? That sounds too much like Parliament for my liking, where the ‘opposition/shadow cabinet’ are constantly bickering with the Government in thinly veiled attempts to embarrass one another. With respect, I can’t see that working. This is a time for everyone pulling together.

[horlickfanclub]

Well said Lord. The Manager said similar.

[Malabus]

Getting the Trust to act like a Shadow Board? That sounds too much like Parliament for my liking, where the ‘opposition/shadow cabinet’ are constantly bickering with the Government in thinly veiled attempts to embarrass one another. With respect, I can’t see that working. This is a time for everyone pulling together.

I.E. Pantomime

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Getting the Trust to act like a Shadow Board? That sounds too much like Parliament for my liking, where the ‘opposition/shadow cabinet’ are constantly bickering with the Government in thinly veiled attempts to embarrass one another. With respect, I can’t see that working. This is a time for everyone pulling together.

Fair enough. Was just a spur of the moment suggestion on how to try and instigate a bit of change and energy in the club leadership which appears - from the outside - to be drifting.

We do need to pull together. But we have to be pulling in the right direction. And CTFC have to be doing the pulling to dictate events, not being pulled by events.

Hopefully the Board communicate which direction they want to head in and how, and the fans can back it. In the absence of that direct leadership, fans will come up with ideas on how to fill the void.

[Ben3]

Woah there. Hold your horses!

It seems, from Robins initial post, that there is some consensus that the board are not doing a good job. How have we arrived at that consensus?

We’ve had our BEST EVER two seasons with that same board in place. I think most of us would acknowledge that being top of league 2/bottom of league 1 is a very good position for a club our size.

Ok - we’re having a shocking season. There’s no point dodging that. But you need to look at variables not just move from manager, to board, to left back, to keeper in ever decreasing circles of rage-direction.

I posted towards end of last season that the board needed to decide on their ambition and I believe they have…theyre not going to ruin the club in a bid to over stretch ourselves for short term gain. I think they’re 100% correct in that. As a fan I’d love rich investor or more on field success but at the risk of the club doing an FGR? Or worse - the leagues are littered with failed clubs who were victims of over ambition.

I wonder if it would be too much to ask of football fans that they didn’t DEMAND immediate changes when their club is having a dip? That they took it on the chin and accepted the reality of the situation rather than somehow presuming we have a right to be on league one?

We’re having a shocker. It’s football - it happens. But a “complete mess”? I don’t recognise that for one second, we’re one of the best run clubs in the country.

[Si Robin]

Woah there. Hold your horses!

It seems, from Robins initial post, that there is some consensus that the board are not doing a good job. How have we arrived at that consensus?

We’ve had our BEST EVER two seasons with that same board in place. I think most of us would acknowledge that being top of league 2/bottom of league 1 is a very good position for a club our size.

Ok - we’re having a shocking season. There’s no point dodging that. But you need to look at variables not just move from manager, to board, to left back, to keeper in ever decreasing circles of rage-direction.

I posted towards end of last season that the board needed to decide on their ambition and I believe they have…theyre not going to ruin the club in a bid to over stretch ourselves for short term gain. I think they’re 100% correct in that. As a fan I’d love rich investor or more on field success but at the risk of the club doing an FGR? Or worse - the leagues are littered with failed clubs who were victims of over ambition.

I wonder if it would be too much to ask of football fans that they didn’t DEMAND immediate changes when their club is having a dip? That they took it on the chin and accepted the reality of the situation rather than somehow presuming we have a right to be on league one?

We’re having a shocker. It’s football - it happens. But a “complete mess”? I don’t recognise that for one second, we’re one of the best run clubs in the country.

This post is going to get absolute pelters, but I hate to admit (because Ben really doesn't need the kudos) that I agree with it fully.

[Warwickshire Robin]

Woah there. Hold your horses!

It seems, from Robins initial post, that there is some consensus that the board are not doing a good job. How have we arrived at that consensus?

We’ve had our BEST EVER two seasons with that same board in place. I think most of us would acknowledge that being top of league 2/bottom of league 1 is a very good position for a club our size.

Ok - we’re having a shocking season. There’s no point dodging that. But you need to look at variables not just move from manager, to board, to left back, to keeper in ever decreasing circles of rage-direction.

I posted towards end of last season that the board needed to decide on their ambition and I believe they have…theyre not going to ruin the club in a bid to over stretch ourselves for short term gain. I think they’re 100% correct in that. As a fan I’d love rich investor or more on field success but at the risk of the club doing an FGR? Or worse - the leagues are littered with failed clubs who were victims of over ambition.

I wonder if it would be too much to ask of football fans that they didn’t DEMAND immediate changes when their club is having a dip? That they took it on the chin and accepted the reality of the situation rather than somehow presuming we have a right to be on league one?

We’re having a shocker. It’s football - it happens. But a “complete mess”? I don’t recognise that for one second, we’re one of the best run clubs in the country.

This post is going to get absolute pelters, but I hate to admit (because Ben really doesn't need the kudos) that I agree with it fully.

Yes agree that is a good post in that a sense of perspective is definitely needed. However, when your usually ignored outside of Gloucestershire club is suddenly in the national and international press for humiliating reasons it is not unreasonable to question those at the top but it does need doing in a balanced way.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Woah there. Hold your horses!

It seems, from Robins initial post, that there is some consensus that the board are not doing a good job. How have we arrived at that consensus?

We’ve had our BEST EVER two seasons with that same board in place. I think most of us would acknowledge that being top of league 2/bottom of league 1 is a very good position for a club our size.

Ok - we’re having a shocking season. There’s no point dodging that. But you need to look at variables not just move from manager, to board, to left back, to keeper in ever decreasing circles of rage-direction.

I posted towards end of last season that the board needed to decide on their ambition and I believe they have…theyre not going to ruin the club in a bid to over stretch ourselves for short term gain. I think they’re 100% correct in that. As a fan I’d love rich investor or more on field success but at the risk of the club doing an FGR? Or worse - the leagues are littered with failed clubs who were victims of over ambition.

I wonder if it would be too much to ask of football fans that they didn’t DEMAND immediate changes when their club is having a dip? That they took it on the chin and accepted the reality of the situation rather than somehow presuming we have a right to be on league one?

We’re having a shocker. It’s football - it happens. But a “complete mess”? I don’t recognise that for one second, we’re one of the best run clubs in the country.

Have the Board decided on their ambition? If so, this hasn’t been communicated clearly nor has the plan for delivering that ambition.

It is when doing well than an organisation should start planning for the future even more. Either to consolidate, build, or develop resilience in preparation for rainy days.

From the outside it seems that because the Club had a good core group of players and a couple of managers who worker well with a DoF that they could relax and didn’t need to be planning, mitigating risks, or seeking continual improvement.

Had the Board prepared a contingency for if Moore and other backroom staff left? Doesn’t look like it. Losing key senior roles is a major operational risk facing all successful organisations and there should always be plans in place for that happening. Our Board still hasn’t even decided whether or not it wants to replace the role. That suggests a lack of proactive planning and just being happy to drift.

The plan seems to be “let’s hope Darrell can fix it”. That’s not a 2, 3 or 5 year strategy with actions and KPIs which can be monitored.

We don’t need to know the the ins and outs of what the Board’s actions and KPIs are but we need to be given the confidence there is a strategy in place. “We’re working hard but it’s difficult and hopefully Darrell can make us better” is not providing that confidence.

Even under Duff, and prior to Duff, the Trust and others have been calling for a professionalisation of the Club and a CEO.

[Robin]

Woah there. Hold your horses!

It seems, from Robins initial post, that there is some consensus that the board are not doing a good job. How have we arrived at that consensus?

We’ve had our BEST EVER two seasons with that same board in place. I think most of us would acknowledge that being top of league 2/bottom of league 1 is a very good position for a club our size.

Ok - we’re having a shocking season. There’s no point dodging that. But you need to look at variables not just move from manager, to board, to left back, to keeper in ever decreasing circles of rage-direction.

I posted towards end of last season that the board needed to decide on their ambition and I believe they have…theyre not going to ruin the club in a bid to over stretch ourselves for short term gain. I think they’re 100% correct in that. As a fan I’d love rich investor or more on field success but at the risk of the club doing an FGR? Or worse - the leagues are littered with failed clubs who were victims of over ambition.

I wonder if it would be too much to ask of football fans that they didn’t DEMAND immediate changes when their club is having a dip? That they took it on the chin and accepted the reality of the situation rather than somehow presuming we have a right to be on league one?

We’re having a shocker. It’s football - it happens. But a “complete mess”? I don’t recognise that for one second, we’re one of the best run clubs in the country.

My post was more warning against going too far and wanting a plan based on analysis of everything that has gone wrong with the club. I feel it would be wildly blind to pretend the board are not part of the current problems. Are they doing a good job, that surely depends upon the metrics being applied. Are they keeping us solvent, the clear answer is yes. But surely that's the absolute minimum expectation on the board performance. Did they sell our prized asset for a very low fee? I think the consensus is that yes they did that. Would it be immensely better to have a full time CEO running the club? It feels this would be a popular choice with fans but the board wouldn't like the scrutiny. Did the Board handle the appointment of Rusty to Head of Recruitment well? That looks like a poor choice right now given the quality of players brought in. Are the board developing the ground as needed? No, at least from what we can see. So are they doing a good job? It's probably good in some areas and not good in others if we assess it objectively.