Robins Report Podcast

Talk about anything to do with Cheltenham Town, CTFC 500 Club, League 1, ex players & Managers

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horlickfanclub
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Will Armitage, Hutchinson.
paperboy
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Si Robin wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 13:10 Mo?

Broom for £100k wasn't bad business really.


Yes, seeing we got him on a free after Daryll ditched him whilst at Rovers.
Robin
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Si Robin wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 08:50 Derby didn't make a bid because of their financial issues. They needed to ship out before they could pay a fee.

He very much wanted to go to Derby.
That's certainly not what I heard Si, his agent was looking to move him back to the South East, other clubs like Wrexham and Derby were told this too.
Robin
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Si Robin wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 13:10 Mo?

Broom for £100k wasn't bad business really.
Agree about Mo the money we got was a good deal but was quickly gobbled up by sell on clauses and other clauses. Didn't we get £150k for Broom at the time it didn't feel like a good deal but in hindsight was probably fair. Whatever we got for Reece Hutchinson was also a good deal even it were a nominal fee.
Si Robin
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Robin wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 10:13
Si Robin wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 08:50 Derby didn't make a bid because of their financial issues. They needed to ship out before they could pay a fee.

He very much wanted to go to Derby.
That's certainly not what I heard Si, his agent was looking to move him back to the South East, other clubs like Wrexham and Derby were told this too.
He spent a couple of days with Derby. They just couldn't work out a way to pony up the dough.
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longmover
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will be interesting to see if AM scores 18+ goals for charlton (this season) whether some championship clubs will show real interest in him.
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Ihearye
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Jerry St Clair wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 09:51
Si Robin wrote: 16 Nov 2023, 07:06 It was, but then a massive part of me thinks we should have held our ground. He effectively had two years left on his deal (1 year plus our option) but the minute he’s kicked his toys out of the pram we’ve backed down.

I know contracts are almost not worth the paper they’re written on these days, but the board were naive in my view.
Yep, the big unknown is how Alfie would have reacted if we'd said "You're under contract, you're going nowhere". He doesn't strike me as a player who'd down tools, but maybe he made it very clear he'd be very unhappy if forced to stay.

A really complex situation and possibly unique as record-breaking goal scorers are once-in-a-generation commodities, so we're unlikely to face a similar conundrum anytime soon.

The broader issue around Moore is much more important, IMHO. We're a selling club (both players and staff) so we need a robust, constantly evolving succession plan for all of our valuable assets.
I would have had respect for him if the agreement had just been a simple, yes we will accept offers come June and he then just got on with his employment. He screwed us over so that he could line his own pocket and the board were mugs enough to let him do it. There was absolutely no guarantee that he would score enough goals between Jan and June to keep us up, there had not been an avalanche up to that point. But that didn't stop him from manipulating the situation to line his pockets. Zero respect for him and they way he did things. As we now see it was a very short term gain and the recruitment of replacements (and time to bring them in), and lack of money is coming home to roost now.
He can go and **** himself
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Horteng
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I thought the debate was a bit daft but I see Si's point. The club set the min price and there was only one bid of this price so they could of cost themselves money. Who knows? Should of started at a higher price or just stated open to offers.
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Ihearye
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Horteng wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 17:18 I thought the debate was a bit daft but I see Si's point. The club set the min price and there was only one bid of this price so they could of cost themselves money. Who knows? Should of started at a higher price or just stated open to offers.
Who knows what May or his agent told any other clubs to make it obvious he wasn't interested
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longmover
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Horteng wrote: 17 Nov 2023, 17:18 I thought the debate was a bit daft but I see Si's point. The club set the min price and there was only one bid of this price so they could of cost themselves money. Who knows? Should of started at a higher price or just stated open to offers.
Who came up with that price in the first place? Seems very low for a player with proven quality at league one level?

Like most things we will never get the full facts, all parties involved have their own agenda. But as was stated on the pod Charlton fans will feel like they have paid 'nothing' for a player of his quality and to most CTFC fans we feel like we've been done.
art vandalay
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Completely agree with Si on this one. Even if more clubs had been interested, the very fact that we named a price would have meant that any bidding war would have taken place on AM‘s salary rather than in the transfer fee.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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art vandalay wrote: 20 Nov 2023, 12:05 Completely agree with Si on this one. Even if more clubs had been interested, the very fact that we named a price would have meant that any bidding war would have taken place on AM‘s salary rather than in the transfer fee.
Yeah. I felt JP’s argument that another club would pay more if the wanted him was missing the point.

Alfie wanted to go to Charlton and Charlton knew the fee we would accept. For all we know, other clubs who were prepared to pay more may have asked Alfie’s agent if he would be interested and they were told not to bother. It would be a waste of valuable effort for teams to engage in a bidding war if they have already been told the player won’t join them and Charlton have met the release fee.

Also, remember that by keeping the transfer fee low there was more room for May and his agent to command signing-on fees and commission. They didn’t want to price Alfie out of a big move.

Therefore I suspect part of the gentleman’s agreement was to have the low transfer value. Especially if we take JP’s point that May would have caused a stink if we didn’t cut a deal.

I liked Si’s comment that if the release fee was £400k then Charlton would have paid £400k.
Red Duke
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To me this argument about the price is that people are getting value and worth mixed up. You may value something at one price but it is only worth what somebody is willing to pay.

If nobody wants to buy then it becomes worthless.
Si Robin
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Except we don’t know how much anyone was willing to pay because we set a figure to be aimed at.

I completely got JP’s point. If Rovers wanted a clear hit at Alfie then they only had to outbid Charlton to get exclusivity on negotiation, but my point in response to that was that Rovers were obviously happy to go head to head with Charlton when negotiating with Alfie.

Also, my other point on what Charlton we’re prepared to pay. We’ll never know because they weren’t pushed at all.

I will maintain my opinion that we set the bar too low.
Red Duke
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The problem with any valuation is that it is tied to the length of the outstanding contract. Within 12 months, Alfie's transfer value would be down to zero. All the advantages are with the buying club. Do you accept what is offered knowing full well that in a year you are going to miss out on £250 K?

So it becomes a Hobson's choice.
Si Robin
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He technically had two years though.
Fuller
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Red Duke wrote: 20 Nov 2023, 17:51 The problem with any valuation is that it is tied to the length of the outstanding contract. Within 12 months, Alfie's transfer value would be down to zero. All the advantages are with the buying club. Do you accept what is offered knowing full well that in a year you are going to miss out on £250 K?

So it becomes a Hobson's choice.
We didn’t actually miss out on £250k. We had to give Doncaster 20% of that so £200k tops and that was probably over a period of time.
Whatever it’s left a sour taste. Bit like Duffo going to Burnley nearly 20 years ago.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Red Duke wrote: 20 Nov 2023, 16:56 To me this argument about the price is that people are getting value and worth mixed up. You may value something at one price but it is only worth what somebody is willing to pay.

If nobody wants to buy then it becomes worthless.
But in this case the price was set by the seller before any buyers made an offer.

If you see something in a shop you think is too cheap for how much you value it do you offer them more or just pay what they ask?
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Ihearye
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Red Duke wrote: 20 Nov 2023, 17:51 The problem with any valuation is that it is tied to the length of the outstanding contract. Within 12 months, Alfie's transfer value would be down to zero. All the advantages are with the buying club. Do you accept what is offered knowing full well that in a year you are going to miss out on £250 K?

So it becomes a Hobson's choice.
Would much rather have bit the bullet and lost out on the the 200k if it helped start the season with a settled front line for at least another year and allowed the recruitment to be concentrated on the areas that really needed it
Warwickshire Robin
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For me, I think there are two points here. Firstly, I agree with the consensus that the £250k threshold was too low, should have been at least £300k if not £350k but that is just my opinion.

Secondly, I think it all depends on the actual wording of the 'Gentleman's Agreement'. If it was that if anyone bids £250k Alfie can choose who he likes then that was wrong and daft. If however it was 'we will accept a minimum bid of £250k but we can accept the best offer for CTFC available on the table', then that is more forgivable. The fact no one did offer more to create the bidding war is out of the boards control.

Thought it was interesting that JP stated that there were definitely add-on clauses and that some were guaranteed, so we will getting more than the £250k.
Fuller
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Warwickshire Robin wrote: 21 Nov 2023, 10:45 For me, I think there are two points here. Firstly, I agree with the consensus that the £250k threshold was too low, should have been at least £300k if not £350k but that is just my opinion.

Secondly, I think it all depends on the actual wording of the 'Gentleman's Agreement'. If it was that if anyone bids £250k Alfie can choose who he likes then that was wrong and daft. If however it was 'we will accept a minimum bid of £250k but we can accept the best offer for CTFC available on the table', then that is more forgivable. The fact no one did offer more to create the bidding war is out of the boards control.

Thought it was interesting that JP stated that there were definitely add-on clauses and that some were guaranteed, so we will getting more than the £250k.
As previously mentioned, we will be getting £200,000 as 20% of the £250k went to Doncaster. Don't believe any add ons will bring in much more.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Warwickshire Robin wrote: 21 Nov 2023, 10:45 For me, I think there are two points here. Firstly, I agree with the consensus that the £250k threshold was too low, should have been at least £300k if not £350k but that is just my opinion.

Secondly, I think it all depends on the actual wording of the 'Gentleman's Agreement'. If it was that if anyone bids £250k Alfie can choose who he likes then that was wrong and daft. If however it was 'we will accept a minimum bid of £250k but we can accept the best offer for CTFC available on the table', then that is more forgivable. The fact no one did offer more to create the bidding war is out of the boards control.

Thought it was interesting that JP stated that there were definitely add-on clauses and that some were guaranteed, so we will getting more than the £250k.
What we also don’t know is how long the offer was on the table for before we accepted it.

Did we accept in June or August?

And we don’t know if - but I suspect - Alfie’s agent was telling clubs he only wanted to go to Charlton so no point wasting time bidding.
Si Robin
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Well he went on the Monday after our first friendly, so it was no later the first week of July.

As already mentioned, he spent a couple of days with Derby, but their financial rules stopped them being able to bid so it wasn't just Charlton he was interested in. In fact, it was Gillingham that he originally wanted to go to in January that forced the board's hand into coming up with the gentleman's agreement.

It's a short career, I don't blame Alfie for a second for wanting to push through a move and try and earn as much as he could - he's apparently now on life-changing money. All power to him. But I don't think he comes out of this too well if I'm brutally honest - Tozer was vilified for doing pretty much the same thing.
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Ihearye
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Si Robin wrote: 21 Nov 2023, 13:59 Well he went on the Monday after our first friendly, so it was no later the first week of July.

As already mentioned, he spent a couple of days with Derby, but their financial rules stopped them being able to bid so it wasn't just Charlton he was interested in. In fact, it was Gillingham that he originally wanted to go to in January that forced the board's hand into coming up with the gentleman's agreement.

It's a short career, I don't blame Alfie for a second for wanting to push through a move and try and earn as much as he could - he's apparently now on life-changing money. All power to him. But I don't think he comes out of this too well if I'm brutally honest - Tozer was vilified for doing pretty much the same thing.
agreed I refer you to my previous thoughts on what he can do to himself :)
Si Robin
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The Robins Report CTFC
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Jerry St Clair
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Presumably you sacrificed the Charlton preview to avoid another lengthy session talking about He Who Must Not Be Named? :D
Si Robin
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No, we’re just a bunch of idiots who forgot

About 30 secs after we stopped recording Matt mentioned it. We’re hoping to do a mini-pod on Sunday
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This week @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1, @DaveCohen_, @SimonGardiner84 and @Joedes87 to discuss:

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https://open.spotify.com/episode/54m40z ... d1e0f84481
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Also - I want to say a massive thank you to everyone who's listened to us ramble on this year.
The stats below are outstanding:

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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Si Robin wrote: 01 Dec 2023, 08:01 Also - I want to say a massive thank you to everyone who's listened to us ramble on this year.
The stats below are outstanding:

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Plus those of us who use Apple Podcasts or similar!
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Broadway Brian
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As much as I disagree with some views expressed - only natural - I really look forward to each pod coming out.

I’m not as local as some so don’t have local press, so this forum and the pod keep me going between matches.

Great work all.

UTMR
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Admittedly it's short notice, but we are live tonight on Twitter:

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Jerry St Clair
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3,300 minutes was just the Wade Inquest episode wasn't it?
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Si Robin
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