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 Post subject: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 18:18 
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I suspect we would be doing better (on a points basis) with Johnson or Milton in charge right now, but maybe it is a case that matters needed to get worse before they can get better (under Duff). It is starting to feel increasingly risky that we should persevere with this plan. Duff's record must be on par with Buckle's at best.

One feels that a win next week is essential.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 18:36 
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People need to wake up and realise that because of the catalogue of errors made at the club since we returned to the EFL things are definitely going to get worse before they (might) get better. We are going down, that is obvious. We have too much to do with the squad we have and no one with any real quality would give us a second look in january.

We must prepare for relegation and put a plan place to return stronger so we can survive at this level. It's our only hope.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 18:37 
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The dilemma is, which option carries more risk and cost?

If we sack, it is crisis club territory and sign of desperation. Relegation usually follows when clubs do this.

Persevering at least gives Duff a chance of turning it around.

I feel the Board must be decisive and choose one of the only two options - whereas with Johnson they did neither.

They must choose to back him fully and support him in January to continue to shape the squad through to the end of the season how he wants or sack him now and let a new manager get a grip of things asap. A repeat of poor timing and poor execution as seen with Johnson will be disastrous in the short and medium term in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 19:09 
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We will win the replay. Onwards and upwards.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 19:22 
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horlickfanclub wrote:
We will win the replay. Onwards and upwards.


Absolutely agree Horlick.

There are quite a few good results by non league clubs today.
We had a tricky tie and we've come away with a battling draw.
I'll take that thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 20:06 
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Better result than last season.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 20:30 
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Ummmmmmm............

This is a very odd post

Who else wouldn’t have settled for 0-0 today??? I thought it was a good result


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 20:48 
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Astonishing to see posts praising a dire (by all accounts) 0-0 draw against a lower mid-table Conference side who have had their own financial issues and manager changes in a game where we had no shots at all in the first half and still zero on target by the end.

We got away with it and have another chance - but that means nothing if we don’t muster an attempt on target in the replay.

We didn’t get knocked out is the best we can say about today. But nothing positive or happy about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:01 
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We could win replay without a shot on target. That would do me.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:09 
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darreno wrote:
People need to wake up and realise that because of the catalogue of errors made at the club since we returned to the EFL things are definitely going to get worse before they (might) get better. We are going down, that is obvious. We have too much to do with the squad we have and no one with any real quality would give us a second look in january.

We must prepare for relegation and put a plan place to return stronger so we can survive at this level. It's our only hope.


I wouldn't start waving the white flag yet. The errors started last Christmas when I feel the axe should have fallen and are still happening, but we are unbeaten in 3 games now and get Jones back and committed to the cause, I would also get young Lloyd back here. Give MD time the Cotterell and Dyche magic dust will rub off, it's not his fault he inherited a pile of c!#p from the Chuckle Brothers


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:11 
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Increasingly starting to look like we made a bad appointment with Mickey. Results are just not good enough and this squad is not that bad surely? I know we need a few decent players but this run is absolutely terrible and by all accounts (those who were there and the radio) we were diabolical again today.

Don't get me wrong I want Duff to succeed but how much longer are we going to drag on like this? Failure to win a first team game at the 11th attempt today isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:11 
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Artemis wrote:
We could win replay without a shot on target. That would do me.


And me. But an unlikely and rarely seen occurrence.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:55 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
But an unlikely and rarely seen occurrence.

A CTFC shot on target?


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:57 
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Except the players aren't a pile of c!#p. They never were. The season starting squad was lacking firepower. And with that now added, they are anything but a pile of c!#p. All too easy to blame GJ I'm afraid. The challenge is that MD isn't as tactically experienced as his predecessor and he needs to learn quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 22:07 
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Artemis wrote:
Except the players aren't a pile of c!#p. They never were. The season starting squad was lacking firepower. And with that now added, they are anything but a pile of c!#p. All too easy to blame GJ I'm afraid. The challenge is that MD isn't as tactically experienced as his predecessor and he needs to learn quickly.


Yup, laughable really that people keep banging on about summer signings. Long, Hussey, Mullins, Hussey, Tozer....probably the best group of League signings since Yates signed Bennet, Penn, Summerfield etc. Broom and Maddox look good enough when used properly. Not sure Varney is offering anything more than Kalala and Duku we’re starting to show as they got up to League pace and strength.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 22:28 
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I do feel Duffo talks a great game and he has improved a few things but this run is absolutely shocking. I know it's in the past but I just don't see that we'd be this bad if GJ were still here.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 10:27 
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I was delighted with a 0-0 and would have taken that before the game, in an obvious banana skin of a Cup fixture that the bookies were sure we’d lose. It wasn’t pretty, but it was effective enough to give us another chance at JR Stadium. We’ve got to hang in there now until January with hopefully a minimum of defeats. Russ won 2 games with pretty much the same squad and there remains the possibility of us winning again - we are becoming more difficult to beat, unbeaten in 3 now - and come January, it may only need a couple of tweaks to ignite the 2nd half of the season and secure our safety as well as giving the loyal fans something to cheer. Hopefully we also get something to cheer well before then too.
I was sorry to see Johnson go, as I was Mark Yates, because I had faith both would keep us in League 2. We don’t have the backing to get into/stay in League 1, as previous attempts have shown, so it is essential we retain our Football League status in League 2 as that is (hopefully) our level. We now have Mr Duff at the helm, and as fans we should give him our unwavering support, and I’m confident he too will keep us in League 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 10:33 
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Robin wrote:
I do feel Duffo talks a great game and he has improved a few things but this run is absolutely shocking. I know it's in the past but I just don't see that we'd be this bad if GJ were still here.


That’s the gamble.

Crowds were dropping under Johnson but safety would have been guaranteed even boring and stale with four homes wins, or slightly chance it may have been a decent season if Kalala and Duku allowed to grow into full potential.

But safety alone not enough, as reflected by the declining crowds and those who felt change was needed to reinvigorate the club.

So the gamble was made to make the change. So far a change for a the worse, but it is early days and we will have to judge come May.

If we survive, Duff makes good signings, season ticket sales hold up and ground improvements to the C&G etc happen then we will start next season positively then I will be first to say it was good gamble which has paid off.

If we go down, the gamble does down as one of the most disastrous in our history.

As Lord Elzpuz opines above, let’s show unwavering support for Duff and the teams he sends out each week, and transmit our confidence into the players.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 11:14 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Artemis wrote:
Except the players aren't a pile of c!#p. They never were. The season starting squad was lacking firepower. And with that now added, they are anything but a pile of c!#p. All too easy to blame GJ I'm afraid. The challenge is that MD isn't as tactically experienced as his predecessor and he needs to learn quickly.


Yup, laughable really that people keep banging on about summer signings. Long, Hussey, Mullins, Hussey, Tozer....probably the best group of League signings since Yates signed Bennet, Penn, Summerfield etc. Broom and Maddox look good enough when used properly. Not sure Varney is offering anything more than Kalala and Duku we’re starting to show as they got up to League pace and strength.


Absolutely agree and I know I keep banging on about this and for that I genuinely apologise. But..... Russ Milton was starting to get something out of these players as you would expect given his experience. I only raise it again because people seem to be ignoring the facts. I'm not saying that Russ is the saviour here - as someone pointed out previously he is still involved after all. Forget about Russ and perhaps look at it this way - The board decided to bring in a new inexperienced manager just at the point where the team spirit had improved massively and we had some good wins on the board. But something negative happened when Michael came on board instead of the expected and customary new manager bounce. All is not well - someone needs to look at that rather than burying their heads in the sand and talking about the January window when, if there is an issue with Michael rather than the players we have, it may be too late. We have more FL experience in this team than we have had for a while - (most of) the performances are dire but these players should be more than capable of moving away from the drop at the very least. They weren't anywhere this bad before Michael came in (even with Gary) with the exception of the FGR game. I'm honestly not bashing him, Michael Duff is a really good guy doing all he can and I want him to do well but does anyone really think that in most other clubs this would continue for much longer? People say sack two managers early season and we'll be a crisis club?? We already are...


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 11:18 
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cheltersfan wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Artemis wrote:
Except the players aren't a pile of c!#p. They never were. The season starting squad was lacking firepower. And with that now added, they are anything but a pile of c!#p. All too easy to blame GJ I'm afraid. The challenge is that MD isn't as tactically experienced as his predecessor and he needs to learn quickly.


Yup, laughable really that people keep banging on about summer signings. Long, Hussey, Mullins, Hussey, Tozer....probably the best group of League signings since Yates signed Bennet, Penn, Summerfield etc. Broom and Maddox look good enough when used properly. Not sure Varney is offering anything more than Kalala and Duku we’re starting to show as they got up to League pace and strength.


Absolutely agree and I know I keep banging on about this and for that I genuinely apologise. But..... Russ Milton was starting to get something out of these players as you would expect given his experience. I only raise it again because people seem to be ignoring the facts. I'm not saying that Russ is the saviour here - as someone pointed out previously he is still involved after all. Forget about Russ and perhaps look at it this way - The board decided to bring in a new inexperienced manager just at the point where the team spirit had improved massively and we had some good wins on the board. But something negative happened when Michael came on board instead of the expected and customary new manager bounce. All is not well - someone needs to look at that rather than burying their heads in the sand and talking about the January window when, if there is an issue with Michael rather than the players we have, it may be too late. We have more FL experience in this team than we have had for a while - (most of) the performances are dire but these players should be more than capable of moving away from the drop at the very least. They weren't anywhere this bad before Michael came in (even with Gary) with the exception of the FGR game. I'm honestly not bashing him, Michael Duff is a really good guy doing all he can and I want him to do well but does anyone really think that in most other clubs this would continue for much longer? People say sack two managers early season and we'll be a crisis club?? We already are...



interesting comments.......


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 11:33 
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Interesting and accurate imo.

The squad we have now I maintain is the best, in terms of league experience and quality, since the second play-off season under Yates, Hundred only by losing Duku and Kalala May costing us some pace and excitement.

Writing off the squad after three or four games - when Hussey and Long were absent, and new faces were still growing into a cohesive team was an error made by many fans, blinkered by the previous season perhaps.

The exciting first half vs Carlisle and the rallying point at Macclesfield showed the squad was improving and Russ continued that with good victories.

That has been replaced with slow attacking play and a lack of clarity over the starting eleven and formation. So starting from square one to a degree and we need to kick-on.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 13:55 
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I really want Duff to succeed but I cant help feeling that he was/is the wrong appointment at this time for us.

When Gary left we had just got our 1st point of the season. Milton comes in we win the next game against a poor side in Cambridge Utd apart from Hussey coming in for Debayo and the loan signing of Jones those were the only changes to that team, hindsight is great but I feel Johnson would have also won the Cambridge game.

Take out the 2 cup games against Brentford and FGR, Brentford was always likely to be a defeat but the FGR game was pathetic we then lost to a promotion chasing team and then beat a poor Northampton side who soon after sacked there manager.

The club and press were hell bent it seemed on appointing a manager who was a former player at the club why only they know and appointed Duff a man who has played at the highest level and come right through the ranks but had not managed a senior team and has just started in the coaching world. I seem to also remember a line from an interview where at Under 23 level he mentioned results didn't matter as much (whatever that means) now they do but the club went with an untried and untested manager a gamble which I feel hasn't paid off yet and I feel wont pay off this season.

On the other hand look at Northampton they appoint a seasoned manager who knows how to get the job done and has started sending Northampton upwards.

Looking at the squad left by Johnson which I feel was and still is very good for this level.
Jones, Mooney, Varney, Barnett, Clements, Field and Alcock brought in it fair too say apart from Barnett & Varney none have been game changers.
The Mooney signing was odd we didn't need him when we had Duku who was starting to get upto speed with League football and he is along was from being better than what we had at the time.
We have since lost Duku who as I said was getting upto the standard needed and starting to look promising and Kalala who along with Addai gave us pace which we lack now, and Duff originally keen to remove Addai from the club too.

We have to stick though we have used up all of the available budget getting rid of a manager paying compensation for a manager and paying extra on wages for new players that were deemed better than what we had yet have not made any difference to where we are.

Unfortunately I feel the only way this is going is with us going down again and trying to rebuild for a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 16:04 
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Yes I am starting to fear what happened in August will send us down. The board are heavily to blame for this, the way GJ was sacked was so badly handled, they then took an eternity to hire a successor wasting the transfer window and wasting funds on substandard players who don't really improve the squad (with a couple of exceptions Varney, lesser extent Barnett). If we still had GJ we would be higher than we are now, if we hired Curle instead of Duff I suspect we would be higher. We are underachieving and ten games without a first win as manager is shocking.

We have to give him January now because of the mistakes made in August but my anger towards the board grows by the day and I genuinely fear we've wasted huge sums of money and this may end in relegation because of gross mis-management.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 16:56 
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Robin wrote:
Yes I am starting to fear what happened in August will send us down. The board are heavily to blame for this, the way GJ was sacked was so badly handled, they then took an eternity to hire a successor wasting the transfer window and wasting funds on substandard players who don't really improve the squad (with a couple of exceptions Varney, lesser extent Barnett). If we still had GJ we would be higher than we are now, if we hired Curle instead of Duff I suspect we would be higher. We are underachieving and ten games without a first win as manager is shocking.

We have to give him January now because of the mistakes made in August but my anger towards the board grows by the day and I genuinely fear we've wasted huge sums of money and this may end in relegation because of gross mis-management.


A rookie chairman with an experienced club manager could have steered a steady path. But the rookie chairman combined with a rookie manager left us floundering.

Johnson is the type of manager that could have helped AW through the transition phase. Johnson’s time was up though, and we should have sought a manager of the same stature.

Or, if in the Summer we knew we wanted Duff, then maybe PB should have stayed on to provide oversight and guidance.

Either way, no time for a novice.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 17:27 
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Novices in both the important positions. Duffo quality guy. Need to give him till end Feb


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 20:14 
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Robin makes a good point where he mentions the time it took to appoint someone being so costly. If we made the appointment quicker or sacked GJ sooner as it seemed they already made their minds up in previous games we could have let the new manager make signings before the window closed. Instead we let Milton sign a bunch of players who are probably worse than what we already had if that's even possible!


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 21:30 
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I just get the feeling that our new Chairman wanted to make an impression, an appointment along similar lines to the appointment of SC (although that was Arthur Hayward), something to make a statement about a return to the golden years, a former player to perform similar feats as Cotterill. An irrational gut feel kind of decision.
I have no evidence of that, just a gut feel myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 21:35 
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Artemis wrote:
I just get the feeling that our new Chairman wanted to make an impression, an appointment along similar lines to the appointment of SC (although that was Arthur Hayward), something to make a statement about a return to the golden years, a former player to perform similar feats as Cotterill. An irrational gut feel kind of decision.
I have no evidence of that, just a gut feel myself.


I think he saw it as a safe bet

If Duff hit the ground running and turned it around it would be a decent appointment

If he struggled we could blame the old manager and current players

MD in a no loose situation really


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 21:39 
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Horteng wrote:
Artemis wrote:
I just get the feeling that our new Chairman wanted to make an impression, an appointment along similar lines to the appointment of SC (although that was Arthur Hayward), something to make a statement about a return to the golden years, a former player to perform similar feats as Cotterill. An irrational gut feel kind of decision.
I have no evidence of that, just a gut feel myself.


I think he saw it as a safe bet

If Duff hit the ground running and turned it around it would be a decent appointment

If he struggled we could blame the old manager and current players

MD in a no loose situation really


Whomever he appointed he could have blamed the previous manager, chairman and current squad.
But I can think of plenty of safer bets. Ones more likely to get better results and actually win some games, especially with the talent and experience in the squad.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 21:51 
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Artemis wrote:
Horteng wrote:
Artemis wrote:
I just get the feeling that our new Chairman wanted to make an impression, an appointment along similar lines to the appointment of SC (although that was Arthur Hayward), something to make a statement about a return to the golden years, a former player to perform similar feats as Cotterill. An irrational gut feel kind of decision.
I have no evidence of that, just a gut feel myself.


I think he saw it as a safe bet

If Duff hit the ground running and turned it around it would be a decent appointment

If he struggled we could blame the old manager and current players

MD in a no loose situation really


Whomever he appointed he could have blamed the previous manager, chairman and current squad.
But I can think of plenty of safer bets. Ones more likely to get better results and actually win some games, especially with the talent and experience in the squad.


Yep you could well be right..... I guess we’ll never know....


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 21:54 
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We won't ever know, but I'd suggest that it could only be marginally worse, but a whole lot better with someone else at the helm.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 22:13 
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But with Macclesfield in all kinds of trouble, we only need to be marginally better than one other club. I'd take 22nd right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 09:39 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Interesting and accurate imo.

The squad we have now I maintain is the best, in terms of league experience and quality, since the second play-off season under Yates, Hundred only by losing Duku and Kalala May costing us some pace and excitement.

Writing off the squad after three or four games - when Hussey and Long were absent, and new faces were still growing into a cohesive team was an error made by many fans, blinkered by the previous season perhaps.

The exciting first half vs Carlisle and the rallying point at Macclesfield showed the squad was improving and Russ continued that with good victories.

That has been replaced with slow attacking play and a lack of clarity over the starting eleven and formation. So starting from square one to a degree and we need to kick-on.


Quite so. Much of what's been said on this thread was posted by 'Johnson supporters' before and after he was unceremoniously sacked; me included.

It still beggars belief that, having entrusted Gary to build a squad for 2018/19, the Board saw fit to capitulate to a few disgruntled, noisy, fans and show him the door after just four games. FOUR GAMES! The Board is culpable for that crass decision, along with allowing Eisa to go with two years left on his contract.

I hope the Johnson detractors are happy now. Their growing silence has been conspicuously deafening as the reality of the folly has really started to sink in. The petulant retort from these people now is that Gary assembled a cr*p squad. Utter, desperate, nonsense. As others have pointed out, it was one of the strongest squads we've had for years - it simply hadn't been given the chance to gell properly. Even our Champions failed to win their first three games before storming to 101 points.

Of course, it's too late to warn people what to wish for. All we can do now is hope that, come season's end, at least two teams have amassed fewer points than us.


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 09:53 
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vickeryc wrote:
I hope the Johnson detractors are happy now. Their growing silence has been conspicuously deafening as the reality of the folly has really started to sink in. The petulant retort from these people now is that Gary assembled a cr*p squad. Utter, desperate, nonsense. As others have pointed out, it was one of the strongest squads we've had for years - it simply hadn't been given the chance to gell properly. Even our Champions failed to win their first three games before storming to 101 points.

Of course, it's too late to warn people what to wish for. All we can do now is hope that, come season's end, at least two teams have amassed fewer points than us.


Hear, hear!


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 Post subject: Re: Managerial Situation
 Post Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 10:46 
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if they are such brilliant players then why arent they professional enough to dig in and play to their potential?? maybe I for one am not saying much as there isnt much left to say !!


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