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 Post subject: New singing section
 Post Posted: 17 May 2019, 18:01 
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https://www.ctfc.com/news/2019/may/club ... 20-season/

Very happy that the club have arranged this, should boost the atmosphere greatly.

If you wish to donate in order to fund Flags, banners and potentially whole ground displays please donate here. Any donation is greatly appreciated.

https://www.gofundme.com/1887redarmy


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 19 May 2019, 15:01 
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I foresee problems ahead. The announcement of the singing section (on the official website) states:

Please note that those who do purchase a season ticket in this section will be expected to adhere to the strict EFL/FA ground regulations, which can be viewed by clicking here.

Persistent or serious breaches of ground regulations could also result in the singing section being suspended or closed with immediate effect.


For benefit of those who may not take the time to click through and read the regulations, let me point out that (as well as the obvious warnings against racist chanting, pyrotechnics, and encroaching on the playing area) the regulations also state the following:

13. Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in
seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from
the Ground.


So, the club are proposing that the "singing section" will be "primarily located" in Block 7 of the Colin Farmer stand (which is a "seating area") but when more than 800 away fans are expected, will be relocated to the Speedy Skips Stand (which is a "standing area").

This raises at least two issues (which it would be better to clarify in advance):

a. I confidently predict that most of the fans in the singing section will decide to stand for the duration of the match, regardless of the fact they are allocated seats in the Colin Farmer stand. Will they be allowed to stand, by the stewards (thus breaching the ground regulations the club have said they intend to enforce)? What will happen when some fans who are seated in the same (or adjacent) areas cannot see the pitch, because (most of) the singing fans are standing?

b. when holders of "singing section" season tickets are relocated (for certain matches) to the Speed Skips Stand, they are effectively being "downgraded" to a cheaper area of the ground. Will they be offered a pro-rata refund at the end of the season?

I'm not intending to join the "singing section" myself, but if I were, I would be seriously miffed at paying for a top-price season ticket, then being told I cannot stand (or face being thrown out of the ground if I do). And, having my ticket swapped for a cheaper one, in a less-desirable part of the ground, for various (currently unknown) games.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 19 May 2019, 16:08 
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fair points


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 19 May 2019, 20:37 
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It's a great idea. Just need to sort the loose ends like being able to stand


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 19 May 2019, 20:53 
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This will be a problem in my eyes as we will split the signing groups behind the goal and kill the atmosphere there.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 19 May 2019, 23:00 
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Robin wrote:
This will be a problem in my eyes as we will split the signing groups behind the goal and kill the atmosphere there.


I think the atmosphere there was inconsistent and that stand has problems generating noise. I suspect most of those intent on chanting will move to block 7 where the noise can travel more effectively. There are still plans to raise the roof there so I cannot see it dying completely.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 19 May 2019, 23:04 
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Leckyfan wrote:
I foresee problems ahead. The announcement of the singing section (on the official website) states:

Please note that those who do purchase a season ticket in this section will be expected to adhere to the strict EFL/FA ground regulations, which can be viewed by clicking here.

Persistent or serious breaches of ground regulations could also result in the singing section being suspended or closed with immediate effect.


For benefit of those who may not take the time to click through and read the regulations, let me point out that (as well as the obvious warnings against racist chanting, pyrotechnics, and encroaching on the playing area) the regulations also state the following:

13. Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in
seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from
the Ground.


So, the club are proposing that the "singing section" will be "primarily located" in Block 7 of the Colin Farmer stand (which is a "seating area") but when more than 800 away fans are expected, will be relocated to the Speedy Skips Stand (which is a "standing area").

This raises at least two issues (which it would be better to clarify in advance):

a. I confidently predict that most of the fans in the singing section will decide to stand for the duration of the match, regardless of the fact they are allocated seats in the Colin Farmer stand. Will they be allowed to stand, by the stewards (thus breaching the ground regulations the club have said they intend to enforce)? What will happen when some fans who are seated in the same (or adjacent) areas cannot see the pitch, because (most of) the singing fans are standing?

b. when holders of "singing section" season tickets are relocated (for certain matches) to the Speed Skips Stand, they are effectively being "downgraded" to a cheaper area of the ground. Will they be offered a pro-rata refund at the end of the season?

I'm not intending to join the "singing section" myself, but if I were, I would be seriously miffed at paying for a top-price season ticket, then being told I cannot stand (or face being thrown out of the ground if I do). And, having my ticket swapped for a cheaper one, in a less-desirable part of the ground, for various (currently unknown) games.


Completely agree regarding the issues with Block 7 standing and the rest of the stand sitting down so I'm unsure how they will work around that?!

Regarding prices I think they will come down to the ticket prices which are due to be released this week. I'd Imagine if will be cheaper

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing what Block 7 can accomplish and I think it will be good to have an improved atmosphere


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 20 May 2019, 00:17 
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CTFC.Harry wrote:
Regarding prices I think they will come down to the ticket prices which are due to be released this week. I'd Imagine if will be cheaper


The prices are already announced - season tickets for the "singing section" are on sale now online.

The full price is £365 (including early-bird discount), which is the same as a 'normal' season ticket in the Colin Farmer stand. The normal concessions are available, which brings the price down to £255 (senior or mature student), £95 (age 16-22) or £45 (under 16).

Interestingly though, when you go to book a "singing section" season ticket online, you do NOT get to choose a specific seat. Instead, you get 'allocated' what appears to be a fictitious seat number. Initially, this is "Row A, Seat 1", but as you try to book more tickets you get allocated (in order) A/3, A/4, A/5 etc. (I don't know why A/2 is never offered). I presume these fictitious seat numbers are required to avoid arguments when the "real" seats in Block 7 are sold to away fans at certain games.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 20 May 2019, 08:41 
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Whilst in favour of improving the support for the team I can only see problems with using Block 7 of the Colin Farmer. As a season ticket holder who attends every game, both home and away, I cannot remember ever attending a game where the singing section did not stand, even in a fully seated stadium. On away travel, those who want to sit generally move away from the standing singing supporters so that they can see the game. If Block 7 becomes the area for singing then be in no doubt that people will stand, whatever the rules say and whatever stewards try to do. Then all those on the left hand side of block 6 (as you face the pitch) will not be able to see anything to their left. If this blocks their view of the scoreboard or the corner flag playing area then there will be trouble, and if you cannot see then there is no point buying a season ticket. I trust that the club will ensure that if everyone in Block 7 is standing, then those in Block 6 and below do not have their views obscured. It also moves our more vociferous fans down towards away supporters??
I hope this is all considered sensibly beforehand.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 20 May 2019, 17:42 
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Leckyfan wrote:
CTFC.Harry wrote:
Regarding prices I think they will come down to the ticket prices which are due to be released this week. I'd Imagine if will be cheaper


The prices are already announced - season tickets for the "singing section" are on sale now online.

The full price is £365 (including early-bird discount), which is the same as a 'normal' season ticket in the Colin Farmer stand. The normal concessions are available, which brings the price down to £255 (senior or mature student), £95 (age 16-22) or £45 (under 16).

Interestingly though, when you go to book a "singing section" season ticket online, you do NOT get to choose a specific seat. Instead, you get 'allocated' what appears to be a fictitious seat number. Initially, this is "Row A, Seat 1", but as you try to book more tickets you get allocated (in order) A/3, A/4, A/5 etc. (I don't know why A/2 is never offered). I presume these fictitious seat numbers are required to avoid arguments when the "real" seats in Block 7 are sold to away fans at certain games.


Probably right, i can imagine they may ask people to group together away from the front rows so that those in Block 6 can still see the corner, its a 300 seat block after all and i can only imagine 150 at most moving there.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 20 May 2019, 17:44 
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Longtermrobin wrote:
Whilst in favour of improving the support for the team I can only see problems with using Block 7 of the Colin Farmer. As a season ticket holder who attends every game, both home and away, I cannot remember ever attending a game where the singing section did not stand, even in a fully seated stadium. On away travel, those who want to sit generally move away from the standing singing supporters so that they can see the game. If Block 7 becomes the area for singing then be in no doubt that people will stand, whatever the rules say and whatever stewards try to do. Then all those on the left hand side of block 6 (as you face the pitch) will not be able to see anything to their left. If this blocks their view of the scoreboard or the corner flag playing area then there will be trouble, and if you cannot see then there is no point buying a season ticket. I trust that the club will ensure that if everyone in Block 7 is standing, then those in Block 6 and below do not have their views obscured. It also moves our more vociferous fans down towards away supporters??
I hope this is all considered sensibly beforehand.


Its only block 7 so id imagine block 8 will be used for segregation and there will be a cover like we have at away games to separate opposing fans.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 20 May 2019, 19:05 
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It makes perfect sense to move our singing section closer to the opposition supporters.
Re: tickets and seat numbers; given that you can't allocate a seat twice, as LeckyFan says, away team supporters will get the actual seat numbered tickets.

It will become a standing area, which is fine by me as long as those who do wish to stand and sing and loudly support the team do it towards the back of the block, and that the stewards gently remind them to do so....stand, but don't block the views of others.

This has the potential if handled sensibly by all parties to be a positive move.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 21 May 2019, 10:41 
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Block 7 often gets more numbers as the crowds increase with the new or returning supporters attending plus new families. I hope the singing section will sing to support our team and not just bait and use bad language at the opposition or some block six and seveners may not return.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 21 May 2019, 15:09 
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I don't think the standing thing will be enforced - it never is in the away end, but the club have to be seen to be sticking to the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 21 May 2019, 15:36 
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Hasn't this been tried once before (the Wymans) and it didn't work so they reverted back to the PRE?


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 22 May 2019, 09:10 
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I thought at first it was a New signing section.............


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 22 May 2019, 09:17 
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Nesty wrote:
I thought at first it was a New signing section.............


...me too for a second-just shows that we sometimes read what we want to read.


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 23 May 2019, 15:52 
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I like the idea, however standing could be an issue as mentioned above.

Anything to improve the atmosphere is a good move imo


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 Post subject: Re: New singing section
 Post Posted: 27 May 2019, 10:22 
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Hubert Parry wrote:
Hasn't this been tried once before (the Wymans) and it didn't work so they reverted back to the PRE?


Yes. There was a period in around 2012 when the Wymans stood in block 7 or 8 of the Colin Farmer. Not sure why they stopped.

On standing, the Sports Ground Safety Authority group has guidelines which are pretty woolly and open to interpretation. They prefer persistent standing to be tackled by "persuasion, education and positive management". But if that doesn't work, more robust measures should be considered but always remembering that safety is the top priority.

The latter point is critical. Many clubs decide that wading into a stand and forcing people to sit down, or ejecting them if they don't, is completely impractical and unsafe. (Can you imagine trying to eject 15000 people standing on the Kop or the Stretford End?). The reality is that different clubs take different approaches. Some DO wade in and others turn a blind eye. History tells us that the approach at Whaddon Road is very much to turn a blind eye. I have never seen concerted action by stewards to deal with persistent standing, particularly in the away end. Has anyone else?


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