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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 27 Jul 2020, 17:47 
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Shade wrote:
I'm sure more than 30% could fit into WR and be socially distanced. I guess its because more people can't be trusted to keep away from each other.


The higher the percentage of the ground is standing, the more capacity is lost due to social distancing.

Seating has four people in a square metre? So social distancing would mean losing 3 people per square metre. Ie 3 out of every 4 seats are empty, so operating at 25% capacity.

Terracing is much denser. It must have 9 or possibly 12 people in a square metre. So social distancing would mean losing 8 or possibly 11 people in a square metre. So operating at around 8-11% capacity.

So teams which are all seater will see a smaller percentage reduction in capacity than teams which are mostly terracing.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 27 Jul 2020, 18:01 
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You sure about the seating? Surely 8 out of 9 would be empty - 3 behind, 3 in front, *at least* 1 either side.

Actually, if the main stand is open, you can probably increase that given how close the seats are...

Sent from my SM-G9860 using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 27 Jul 2020, 19:13 
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asl wrote:
You sure about the seating? Surely 8 out of 9 would be empty - 3 behind, 3 in front, *at least* 1 either side.

Actually, if the main stand is open, you can probably increase that given how close the seats are...

Sent from my SM-G9860 using Tapatalk


In the CF I would assume every other row can be used.

Maybe along the row you need two empty seats between individuals. So that would be 1 every 6 seats.

I would have thought just one seat between people would be fine. Social distancing is a metre remember.

I guess it comes down to what their rules are re households and bubbles. Ie can you sit next to someone at football if you live with them or are in a bubble with them?


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 11:37 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Shade wrote:
I'm sure more than 30% could fit into WR and be socially distanced. I guess its because more people can't be trusted to keep away from each other.


The higher the percentage of the ground is standing, the more capacity is lost due to social distancing.

Seating has four people in a square metre? So social distancing would mean losing 3 people per square metre. Ie 3 out of every 4 seats are empty, so operating at 25% capacity.

Terracing is much denser. It must have 9 or possibly 12 people in a square metre. So social distancing would mean losing 8 or possibly 11 people in a square metre. So operating at around 8-11% capacity.

So teams which are all seater will see a smaller percentage reduction in capacity than teams which are mostly terracing.


Is that accurate? 4000 seats (2000 Colin Farmer, 1000 away end and 1000 old stand) and 3000 terrace (2000 C&G, 1000 Paddock/tunnel).


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 12:29 
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Robin wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Shade wrote:
I'm sure more than 30% could fit into WR and be socially distanced. I guess its because more people can't be trusted to keep away from each other.


The higher the percentage of the ground is standing, the more capacity is lost due to social distancing.

Seating has four people in a square metre? So social distancing would mean losing 3 people per square metre. Ie 3 out of every 4 seats are empty, so operating at 25% capacity.

Terracing is much denser. It must have 9 or possibly 12 people in a square metre. So social distancing would mean losing 8 or possibly 11 people in a square metre. So operating at around 8-11% capacity.

So teams which are all seater will see a smaller percentage reduction in capacity than teams which are mostly terracing.


Is that accurate? 4000 seats (2000 Colin Farmer, 1000 away end and 1000 old stand) and 3000 terrace (2000 C&G, 1000 Paddock/tunnel).


No idea. I wasn’t talking about WR specifically just football stadia in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020, 16:20 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
asl wrote:
You sure about the seating? Surely 8 out of 9 would be empty - 3 behind, 3 in front, *at least* 1 either side.

Actually, if the main stand is open, you can probably increase that given how close the seats are...

Sent from my SM-G9860 using Tapatalk


In the CF I would assume every other row can be used.

Maybe along the row you need two empty seats between individuals. So that would be 1 every 6 seats.

I would have thought just one seat between people would be fine. Social distancing is a metre remember.

I guess it comes down to what their rules are re households and bubbles. Ie can you sit next to someone at football if you live with them or are in a bubble with them?


You must be in the Lazeeboy section of the CF! The one with the metre wide seats.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 16:11 
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Clubs with smaller capacity at a general disadvantage, clubs with larger capacity at a general advantage. Just a shame we didn't build that 20,000 all-seater on the off-chance something like this happened... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 16:34 
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Stadium size is only relative to average utilisation though. For example a club like Northampton with average gates of 4000 or so in a 6500 stadium will struggle big time with this, whilst say Morecambe with crowds of 1500 home fans in a similar sized stadia probably won't be impacted at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 17:11 
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Morecambe's average home attendance for 19-20 was 2,264 (about 50% higher than your guess). Globe Arena capacity 6,500.Even my maths can work out that even at 30% of capacity, not all Morecambe's fans will get in.

Although other than that, your point is a fair one. Impact depends on average attendance as well as capacity. I suspect the amount of seats vs standing will also make a difference.

I had in mind the bigger stadia where attendance was already less than 30%. But actually, I'm struggling to come up with any for certain. Bradford, Bolton and Blackpool were in my thinking, but actually, they seem to be over the 30% mark already.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 17:19 
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Robin wrote:
Stadium size is only relative to average utilisation though. For example a club like Northampton with average gates of 4000 or so in a 6500 stadium will struggle big time with this, whilst say Morecambe with crowds of 1500 home fans in a similar sized stadia probably won't be impacted at all.


Correct. The other day I was planning to make a utilisation table for L2 but have been too busy after a week off work last week!


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 17:38 
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Artemis wrote:
Morecambe's average home attendance for 19-20 was 2,264 (about 50% higher than your guess). Globe Arena capacity 6,500.Even my maths can work out that even at 30% of capacity, not all Morecambe's fans will get in.

Although other than that, your point is a fair one. Impact depends on average attendance as well as capacity. I suspect the amount of seats vs standing will also make a difference.

I had in mind the bigger stadia where attendance was already less than 30%. But actually, I'm struggling to come up with any for certain. Bradford, Bolton and Blackpool were in my thinking, but actually, they seem to be over the 30% mark already.


With the best of intent I was more trying to give some rough examples and I was deducting away fans as it seems this season they won't be allowed to travel.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 21:54 
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I've done some rough calculations on this....based on numbers for season 19-20, using publicly available capacity, avg attendances and avg away to derive avg home, and thus avg home by percentage of capacity.
With the season not completed, the figures are perhaps skewed, depending on which clubs didn't visit. And avg attendances also includes cup games....but with that said.....here's the numbers. Some big grounds not 25% full. Some littler ones, a lot fuller.

Club Capacity Avg Home / capacity
Northampton 7,653 61%
Salford 5,108 53%
Leyton Orient 9,271 53%
Bradford 25,136 53%
Exeter 8,696 50%
Plymouth 18,600 50%
Cambridge 8,127 47%
FGR 5,147 45%
Newport 7,850 45%
Chelt 7,066 45%
Swindon 15,728 45%
Grimsby 9,052 42%
Crewe 10,180 40%
Mansfield 10,000 40%
Stevenage 6,722 39%
Walsall 11,300 36%
Crawley 5,996 35%
Scunthorpe 9,088 34%
Colchester 10,105 33%
Morecambe 6,476 32%
Macc 6,355 28%
Oldham 13,512 22%
Port Vale 19,052 22%
Carlisle 18,202 21%

If anyone would like the raw data, drop me a PM (formatting's a bit tricky on here)


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 22:24 
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Interesting stuff.

The contrast between Bradford and Vale, the two biggest grounds in L2 19/20 is quite striking.

Some on here have said we should upstage to a 10,000 capacity ground, just in case it is needed. If only we had!

If Harrogate come up I hope away fan restrictions are lifted by the time we visit. After so many years waiting for that fixture it would be tough to accept not being able to attend.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 00:26 
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Unsure if I posted it but I saw something saying restrictions are likely to be in place for the entire season but may be reviewed/loosened. At this stage I cannot see away fans being allowed until we are nearer 50% utilisation of grounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 07:59 
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Robin wrote:
Unsure if I posted it but I saw something saying restrictions are likely to be in place for the entire season but may be reviewed/loosened. At this stage I cannot see away fans being allowed until we are nearer 50% utilisation of grounds.


You may have. We have all read numerous rumours and suggestions so we are all none the wiser.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 10:10 
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Robin wrote:
Unsure if I posted it but I saw something saying restrictions are likely to be in place for the entire season but may be reviewed/loosened. At this stage I cannot see away fans being allowed until we are nearer 50% utilisation of grounds.


Is the away fans concern less about away fans in stadiums and more about large numbers of fans (100,000 roughly?) all traveling across the country in coaches/trains on a typical Saturday? it would make sense for non-leagues and League 2, with lower volumes of away support and who are much more reliant on gate income, to allow away support back sooner. That would, I expect, be hugely contentious with fans further up the league though.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 10:16 
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Unsure Jerry but it's been widely muted amongst the press. If the ceiling next season is really 30% of capacity as expected then I'd imagine the primary idea is to allow as many home fans as possible in, just looking at the table RCS posted and it's clear other than four teams the rest of the league won't fit everyone in.

I'd imagine it will apply in all professional leagues but once you drop below it becomes extremely hard to manage where there is no segregation in grounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 10:18 
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Robin wrote:
Unsure Jerry but it's been widely muted amongst the press. If the ceiling next season is really 30% of capacity as expected then I'd imagine the primary idea is to allow as many home fans as possible in, just looking at the table RCS posted and it's clear other than four teams the rest of the league won't fit everyone in.

I'd imagine it will apply in all professional leagues but once you drop below it becomes extremely hard to manage where there is no segregation in grounds.


As much as I like credit where it is due, in this instance I must clarify that Artemis deserves t praise for putting the table together and posting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 10:20 
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Ah yes, apologies to you both.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020, 13:17 
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Hmm, not great news today. The pilots and trials of a limited number of fans back at sporting events (snooker, cricket, racing) now cancelled as community transition has risen in accordance with increased social interaction.

Witty says social interaction has reached its limit in the U.K. and we can’t go any further. Doesn’t bode well for football fans returning anytime soon without a vaccine.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020, 09:18 
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Jeez, the repercussions of that for next season are frightening. Can next season even be played out without fans for more than a couple of games?


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020, 11:01 
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Robin wrote:
Jeez, the repercussions of that for next season are frightening. Can next season even be played out without fans for more than a couple of games?


It does not bear thinking about.

Witty said if we want to open more of some things we need to do less of others.

This is mainly geared towards schools. However, as a football fan I would accept continued to restrictions re masks, bars, working from home if it means opening football up. This is rather than opening up more things but keeping football closed.

The FA Cup starts in just under a month with the Extra Prelims starting on 1st September.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 02 Aug 2020, 16:37 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Interesting stuff.

The contrast between Bradford and Vale, the two biggest grounds in L2 19/20 is quite striking.

Some on here have said we should upstage to a 10,000 capacity ground, just in case it is needed. If only we had!

If Harrogate come up I hope away fan restrictions are lifted by the time we visit. After so many years waiting for that fixture it would be tough to accept not being able to attend.


You just might get your wish RCS, Harrogate 3-1 up now with 20 mins to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 18:28 
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little mo wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Interesting stuff.

The contrast between Bradford and Vale, the two biggest grounds in L2 19/20 is quite striking.

Some on here have said we should upstage to a 10,000 capacity ground, just in case it is needed. If only we had!

If Harrogate come up I hope away fan restrictions are lifted by the time we visit. After so many years waiting for that fixture it would be tough to accept not being able to attend.


You just might get your wish RCS, Harrogate 3-1 up now with 20 mins to go.


Not got the same enthusiasm for Barrow-in-Furness then?


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 18:59 
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RaymondDuck wrote:
little mo wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Interesting stuff.

The contrast between Bradford and Vale, the two biggest grounds in L2 19/20 is quite striking.

Some on here have said we should upstage to a 10,000 capacity ground, just in case it is needed. If only we had!

If Harrogate come up I hope away fan restrictions are lifted by the time we visit. After so many years waiting for that fixture it would be tough to accept not being able to attend.


You just might get your wish RCS, Harrogate 3-1 up now with 20 mins to go.


Not got the same enthusiasm for Barrow-in-Furness then?


I do. I really loved the Barrow way game, despite the rain, when Asa bagged the winner during our Champions tour.

I stayed for two nights. Saturday saw Parkrun in the fantastic Victorian park (also Isabel Hardiman of the Spectator’s local Parkrun) followed by the museum.

Went to the South Lakes Safari Zoo on the Sunday.

The game itself was very enjoyable. I liked the stadium and the relaxed approach to segregation....going to the home end to get a tea at half time, shaking hands and exchanging friendly greetings with the home fans as they exited via our away terrace.

On a parallel with Guiseley for away trips that season.

Definitely intending to visit again, hopefully a time of year where it isn’t pitch black by full time so the evening can be enjoyed a bit more.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 19:15 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
RaymondDuck wrote:
Interesting stuff.

Not got the same enthusiasm for Barrow-in-Furness then?


I do. I really loved the Barrow way game, despite the rain, when Asa bagged the winner during our Champions tour.

I stayed for two nights. Saturday saw Parkrun in the fantastic Victorian park (also Isabel Hardiman of the Spectator’s local Parkrun) followed by the museum.

Went to the South Lakes Safari Zoo on the Sunday.

The game itself was very enjoyable. I liked the stadium and the relaxed approach to segregation....going to the home end to get a tea at half time, shaking hands and exchanging friendly greetings with the home fans as they exited via our away terrace.

On a parallel with Guiseley for away trips that season.

Definitely intending to visit again, hopefully a time of year where it isn’t pitch black by full time so the evening can be enjoyed a bit more.


Sounds cracking, good stop off for Scotland etc. as well!


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 19:30 
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RaymondDuck wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
RaymondDuck wrote:
Interesting stuff.

Not got the same enthusiasm for Barrow-in-Furness then?


I do. I really loved the Barrow way game, despite the rain, when Asa bagged the winner during our Champions tour.

I stayed for two nights. Saturday saw Parkrun in the fantastic Victorian park (also Isabel Hardiman of the Spectator’s local Parkrun) followed by the museum.

Went to the South Lakes Safari Zoo on the Sunday.

The game itself was very enjoyable. I liked the stadium and the relaxed approach to segregation....going to the home end to get a tea at half time, shaking hands and exchanging friendly greetings with the home fans as they exited via our away terrace.

On a parallel with Guiseley for away trips that season.

Definitely intending to visit again, hopefully a time of year where it isn’t pitch black by full time so the evening can be enjoyed a bit more.


Sounds cracking, good stop off for Scotland etc. as well!


Indeed, Barrow on Saturday followed by Carlisle on Tuesday would be the idea mini-break. Could get a few Wainwrights in between games.


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 04 Aug 2020, 22:01 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
RaymondDuck wrote:

Indeed, Barrow on Saturday followed by Carlisle on Tuesday would be the idea mini-break. Could get a few Wainwrights in between games.
[/quote]

that would involve the fixture planners using common sense and we all know the chances of that are slim


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 Post subject: Re: Fans back in stadiums
 Post Posted: 05 Aug 2020, 12:57 
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I bloody love going up to Carlisle. Would love to do a Carlisle-Barrow double header but you know it won't happen.

Well, definitely not this coming season!


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