Wake up!

[Johnsons Red Army]

I know that this post may well go down faster than a lead balloon, however I’m willing to take that risk.

For those voters that typically vote Conservative, please take a look at yesterday’s “mini” budget announcement.

I will preface this by saying that personally, I feel that the majority of Britons are totally uneducated when it comes to politics.

Yesterday’s budget was yet another a clear example of their priorities, I.e. making their rich donor mates even richer.

If you really want to better yourself, vote anything except for Conservatives at all future elections. It’s a simple as that.

They have yet again shown their true colours and only look out for the rich.

So, if you don’t fit into the top 1-5%, it’s quite simple. Stop voting for them!

They do not look out for working class people, only their rich mates.

If you do disagree, you are either a. rich or b. too stupid to realise what is happening.

I rest my case.

[Ihearye]

History tends to show that lowering the tax rates brings in more revenue. That being the case, then there will be money to invest to the benefit of us all. I don't buy into the petty view that I should be annoyed because someone is earning and taking home more than me.
But thanks for pointing out to me what category of human being I am. And there was me thinking I was only an idiot for having to pay to keep Albanians in hotels pay for their electricity and feed them 3 square meals a day. While, at the same time struggling to do the same for myself.

[ctfc-fan]

How dare I have my own opinion….

[ctfc-fan]

History tends to show that lowering the tax rates brings in more revenue. That being the case, then there will be money to invest to the benefit of us all. I don't buy into the petty view that I should be annoyed because someone is earning and taking home more than me.
But thanks for pointing out to me what category of human being I am. And there was me thinking I was only an idiot for having to pay to keep Albanians in hotels pay for their electricity and feed them 3 square meals a day. While, at the same time struggling to do the same for myself.

Agree with you on the higher earners. If I start a business and it’s successful why shouldn’t I benefit and enjoy the fruits of my labour? All I hear now is it should be distributed to the staff as it’s not fair. How about they start a business and go through the hard times that a lot of business owners go through initially?

[Johnsons Red Army]

I assume with your views that you both fall under category A.

Which is fair enough, if you fall into the rich category, then obviously you will try to protect your own interests.

But unless you are a top earner/fit within the top 5% (or less), then I can only suggest you are misguided.

[Johnsons Red Army]

History tends to show that lowering the tax rates brings in more revenue. That being the case, then there will be money to invest to the benefit of us all. I don't buy into the petty view that I should be annoyed because someone is earning and taking home more than me.
But thanks for pointing out to me what category of human being I am. And there was me thinking I was only an idiot for having to pay to keep Albanians in hotels pay for their electricity and feed them 3 square meals a day. While, at the same time struggling to do the same for myself.

Do you mind to provide some of this evidence that you seem to believe backs up your arguments, as all I can see is that “trickle down economics” doesn’t work?

As an aside, the Tories always like to paint the picture that Labour is a party that borrows money and spends too much.
How do you think the announcements in yesterday’s budget is going to be paid for?
…..by borrowing (at bad interest rates I will point out!), so hardly any different to what the Tory voters accuse Labour of.

Go look at the 24 hour chart of the $:£ and see what the rest of the world thought of our budget!

[Johnsons Red Army]

And there was me thinking I was only an idiot for having to pay to keep Albanians in hotels pay for their electricity and feed them 3 square meals a day. While, at the same time struggling to do the same for myself.

Perhaps you could petition your local Conservative MP and ask them to impose a better windfall tax on the energy producers, bringing more money back into the public coffers where it could benefit people the most, instead of keeping it in the bank accounts of the top 1%?

[Johnsons Red Army]

History tends to show that lowering the tax rates brings in more revenue. That being the case, then there will be money to invest to the benefit of us all. I don't buy into the petty view that I should be annoyed because someone is earning and taking home more than me.
But thanks for pointing out to me what category of human being I am. And there was me thinking I was only an idiot for having to pay to keep Albanians in hotels pay for their electricity and feed them 3 square meals a day. While, at the same time struggling to do the same for myself.

Agree with you on the higher earners. If I start a business and it’s successful why shouldn’t I benefit and enjoy the fruits of my labour? All I hear now is it should be distributed to the staff as it’s not fair. How about they start a business and go through the hard times that a lot of business owners go through initially?

Without your workers though, how will your business succeed?

Why shouldn’t they take a bigger piece of the pie?

Without them, your business is nothing.

[ctfc-fan]

The excess profits from oil and gas, on what turnover were they made? Answer me that one first please.

[Johnsons Red Army]

Go check the investor relations pages on the websites of said companies and look at their reports.

It’s not a secret, they are publicly listed companies, hence why their reports are in the public domain.

So no, I’m not going to do your work for you. If you want to know, it’s not hard to find out.

[asl]

Okay, cards on the table: I probably do fit into the top decile of disposable incomes in the UK - the discovery of which surprised me greatly as I do not consider myself 'wealthy' but might have categorised myself as 'well off'. It's worth looking that up as the numbers are surprisingly low... Everything I have, I've worked hard for and never inherited a penny, nor will I ever. I attended a selective grammar school and went to college for A levels (though decided not to go on to uni.) On top of that, I'm a child of Thatcher and took Norman Tebbit's advice of the day to 'get on my bike' to find work when it was abundantly clear that rural Lincolnshire would not provide the earning potential I wanted for myself. That was a conscious choice and I do not imagine Callaghan or Foot would have encouraged me to better myself in the same way as, let's face it, the ethos before then was more towards encouraging you to be happy with your lot.

My 'uneducated' (thanks for that) political leanings are undoubtedly right of centre - however, I have not *always* voted blue. It wasn't the first time, but I did not vote that way during the last election because of the party's Brexit stance and also because my local incumbent Conservative MP for North Wiltshire is a twat. I am not a party member and so did not get a vote for leader - but if I did, it would have gone to Sunak as, like him, I do not believe that now is the time to cut taxes, and certainly not to the extent that Truss just has. Tbh, I know it will leave me ostensibly better off, but I prefer to look at the slightly bigger picture and recognise that we are saddling debts on the next generations to come.

Whoever won the recent leadership election was always on a hiding to nothing as there is no chance of a Conservative victory at the next general election - the whole Brexit debacle and everything that occurred during the pandemic has guaranteed that. The so-called red wall will be rebuilt as the Brexiteers who voted blue for one reason and one reason only (to Get Brexit Done as opposed to Corbyn's policy of...err...whatever that was...damned if I could tell...) When the next general election comes around, I will weigh up my vote carefully, as I always do (despite not being as politically well-educated as JRA, [bows respectfully]) in the knowledge that it will probably be my last such before I retire (early!) and, quite possibly, leave England for good. Each party's economic policy will, as always, be top of my consideration - and, on that point, I think Labour need to 'wake up' a bit, too.

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[Shade]

Who would have thought people would be defending their positions to a commie on a Cheltenham Town football forum

[Johnsons Red Army]

Not really sure that being opposed to making the rich even richer (especially during this very high inflationary period where a lot of people are struggling, even those that are in the “middle class”) instantly qualifies me to be a “commie”, but whatever.

Thanks for your response, asl. Without trying to go off on a tangent, but as you touched upon it in your response, Brexit was another example of what I meant when I said the majority of Britons are uneducated when it comes to politics. I mean it’s too early to say if it turns out to be a total failure, however the signs aren’t looking great already.

At least it appears that I am not the only one that does my “homework” with regards to politics and voting, it’s just a shame that most people don’t, and therefore have no idea what they are voting for. Otherwise they would stop voting into power the party that only looks out for the rich.

[kora]

The people who understand the financial system have spoken on the "mini budget"; the pound is at it's lowest point in history and the stock market had a mini crash. If they thought it was a good idea both would have risen immediately. Over to you Mr Kwarteng.

[asl]

Interesting point made by an economics editor on the radio, this morning: the only change in the mini-budget that Labour actually disagree with appears to be the abolition of the higher-rate tax bracket. I listened to the shadow chancellor's speech, earlier and it was just a typical conference speech, preaching to the converted, no indication of how any of the pledges would be paid for, etc, etc.

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[Ihearye]

History tends to show that lowering the tax rates brings in more revenue. That being the case, then there will be money to invest to the benefit of us all. I don't buy into the petty view that I should be annoyed because someone is earning and taking home more than me.
But thanks for pointing out to me what category of human being I am. And there was me thinking I was only an idiot for having to pay to keep Albanians in hotels pay for their electricity and feed them 3 square meals a day. While, at the same time struggling to do the same for myself.

Do you mind to provide some of this evidence that you seem to believe backs up your arguments, as all I can see is that “trickle down economics” doesn’t work?

As an aside, the Tories always like to paint the picture that Labour is a party that borrows money and spends too much.
How do you think the announcements in yesterday’s budget is going to be paid for?
…..by borrowing (at bad interest rates I will point out!), so hardly any different to what the Tory voters accuse Labour of.

Go look at the 24 hour chart of the $:£ and see what the rest of the world thought of our budget!

If I could be arsed to dig out the stats I would, easier if you dig out the stats that say there is less tax take. While you are at it have a look at a definition of how democracy works. A hint is we all vote, one side loses one wins. If you lose you suck it up for a few years and hope you don't next time round

[SHANDY VOR]

I consider myself comfortably off, have everything I need, and almost everything I want.

I was happy to pay the tax I did before the cuts, and even more as without money the NHS and public services will continue to deteriorate. I will be even better off following the budget, and will probably start saving up for any medical stuff I need in the future eg amputation

I shudder to think how many people are going to survive, it feels like we are going back to Victorian times. These clowns are going to bankrupt the country

[Red Duke]

I consider myself comfortably off, have everything I need, and almost everything I want.

I was happy to pay the tax I did before the cuts, and even more as without money the NHS and public services will continue to deteriorate. I will be even better off following the budget, and will probably start saving up for any medical stuff I need in the future eg amputation

I shudder to think how many people are going to survive, it feels like we are going back to Victorian times. These clowns are going to bankrupt the country

I wouldn't call them clowns (they're not funny), I would call them Charlatans.

[Sprout Picker]

I escaped the UK a couple of years ago to move to France whilst I still had the option before Brexit made it harder to do. Glad I did as the UK increasingly starts to look like an absolute basket-case run by a group of people who seem hell-bent on using tax-payers money to line the pockets of their chums whilst running everything into the floor.

France has its issues but the roads are generally good, public transport is clean and efficient in the main, the health service is excellent and the government seems to have a handle on things - electric price increases were capped at 4% this year and there is a 30 cent subsidy on fuel at the pumps to keep costs down to people. The weather's better here too!

Regarding tax cuts France has attracted substantially more outside investment in the last 3 or 4 years than the UK despite a higher rate of tax - I can't possibly think why that would be the case!

[kora]

The unfortunate thing is it's 2 years to the next election and by then the country will be up to it's neck in hock not only affecting us but our children and grandchildren. These f#!$ morons are screwing this country for generations. Trickle down has NEVER worked and according to the US treasury NEVER will.

[Malabus]

The unfortunate thing is it's 2 years to the next election and by then the country will be up to it's neck in hock not only affecting us but our children and grandchildren. These f#!$ morons are screwing this country for generations. Trickle down has NEVER worked and according to the US treasury NEVER will.

There is no opposition, only a fools would vote Labour or Libtards.

[Johnsons Red Army]

https://news.sky.com/story/imf-warns-uk ... y-12706612

For anyone doubting what I said in the OP.

(Although you must have your head in the sand if you haven’t read or heard similar - it’s been all over the news!)

[kora]

This is becoming embarrassing, I can't remember a "first world" country ever being criticised by the IMF. It's the kind of thing that happens to Guatamala not not so great Britain.

[Malabus]

This is becoming embarrassing, I can't remember a "first world" country ever being criticised by the IMF. It's the kind of thing that happens to Guatamala not not so great Britain.

With out of control immigration, Great Britain is becoming a third world country. The country has become alien to me very quickly.

[Johnsons Red Army]

More confirmation for the OP (this time from the horse’s mouth!!!):
https://www.independent.co.uk/independe ... 78709.html

And just lol:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 77884.html

She doesn’t have a clue !

[kora]

When she was opening new pork markets and worrying about the origins of our cheese you could laugh at the moronic bitch; not so amusing when she gets the top job. If Rishi had been white this would never have happened.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Not going to get drawn into ideological spats and moral debates. What I will say from a company management point of view is that the biggest challenges so far (apart from energy) is availability of skilled staff, poor transport and digital infrastructure. And for our staff, in addition to the above, a lack of housing in the right places and a decline in health services and public leisure services.

So for our business and for me personally, we don’t view tax as a cost but as an investment. Ie investment in healthier and better skilled staff, and better connectivity and infrastructure which helps productivity.

Therefore economic and financial question then becomes ‘what is the required level of investment (ie tax) is needed to create a better business environment’.

Equally, from a UK Plc perspective I regard benefits, medical provision and criminal justice as highly costly treatments of symptoms. Again I therefore view taxes as an investment in better education, better health, and to end the cycle of child poverty. Why? Because the best way to reduce the benefits, NHS and police/prison bills is to not need as much of them in the first place. The question is then ‘how much public spending in the short-term is needed to make savings in the medium and long-term?’

Making people poorer and increasing inequality will just increase the number of people claiming benefits, getting more ill, and committing crime.

So public investment in public goods is beneficial in the longer term. And that investment is funded by taxation. The debate needs to be on how much investment (and in what) is needed to benefit the economy, and then work out how to tax accordingly.

[Johnsons Red Army]

Liz

[asl]

Best reaction I've heard so far: "even Allardyce lasted longer in post than that!"

He was also far more successful...

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[Johnsons Red Army]

They should have picked Rishi. I strongly suspect this mess would have been avoided with him at the helm.

Will be interesting to see who takes over now. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we get Boris back. He seems to be the members’ choice based on a recent poll.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

This is becoming embarrassing, I can't remember a "first world" country ever being criticised by the IMF. It's the kind of thing that happens to Guatamala not not so great Britain.

With out of control immigration, Great Britain is becoming a third world country. The country has become alien to me very quickly.

The last sentence of this extract from Fraser Nelson’s Telegraph piece today seems to be describing you:

“When King Charles III is crowned next May, a Hindu Prime Minister will leave 10 Downing Street with his Indian wife to attend the ceremony. The Muslim Mayor of London will already be at Westminster Abbey. Security will be headed up by the Home Secretary, a Buddhist. The only white holder of a great office of state, Jeremy Hunt, will arrive with his Chinese wife. And the Chief Rabbi will walk from Clarence House, having stayed the night as the guest of the King and Queen Consort. It will be a perfect scene of modern Britain.

While decades in the making, the change is disorientating to some.”

A good read for those with access.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/1 ... pot-world/