VAR/Women's World Cup

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Shade
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Yet again more VAR controversy, when it should be the easiest thing in the world to watch a replay and apply the correct law.

Happened to catch the last few minutes of China v Haiti this lunchtime. I don't know if it will be shouted about but Haiti are all but out after losing 1-0, but VAR first overturned a penalty decision to Haiti in the last minute which was a bit of a soft one but certainly not a clear and obvious error as the defender had hands and arms all over the Haitian, and then they completely ignored a stonewall penalty in the 97th minute, when the ref gave a corner but the replay showed the Chinese player got absolutely nowhere near the ball and wiped the Haiti player out. The Haitian player was poleaxed and flat on her face in the area and the Chinese player ended up off the pitch good 7 or 8 metres away where she landed, needing treatment. The VAR didn't even review it despite the replays showing it clear as day! Utterly baffling. The commentators had already given the penalty and were gobsmacked.

China's goal was a penalty that wasn't overturned by VAR.

This isn't about men or women's football, it's just about how utterly incompetent (or bent) people sitting in front of a TV screen watching replays can be. Nothing wrong with the technology but the referees are abysmal and can't follow the rules.
ctfc-fan
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The Chinesians obviously paid them off
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Shade
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They've benefitted from a couple of bizarre VAR decisions today as well, but it didn't help them overall v England.
PCrobin
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Shade wrote: 01 Aug 2023, 13:05 They've benefitted from a couple of bizarre VAR decisions today as well, but it didn't help them overall v England.
Yep, baffling offside decision ruling out a brilliant goal and the handball was very debatable. Then giving out a yellow card for it was rubbing salt in the wound! :shock:
asl
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Tbf, I thought both decisions were correct.
PCrobin
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Was it not a bit harsh calling that deliberate handball when the ball is kicked directly at her from such close range? VAR always seems to add to the confusion with these handball decisions, I'm not sure anymore ! 😆
asl
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Not sure there's much room for interpretation... If Earps hadn't been behind her, the ball would have gone into the net, definitely. Ergo, she would have prevented a goal using her hand/arm, which would have been a straight red and a pen. 'Intention' doesn't factor into it, I'm afraid. As it was, the keeper's position saved her, reducing it to a yellow and a pen.
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Shade
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asl wrote: 02 Aug 2023, 12:32 Not sure there's much room for interpretation... If Earps hadn't been behind her, the ball would have gone into the net, definitely. Ergo, she would have prevented a goal using her hand/arm, which would have been a straight red and a pen. 'Intention' doesn't factor into it, I'm afraid. As it was, the keeper's position saved her, reducing it to a yellow and a pen.
But the fact was that the keeper was behind her, so the ball wouldn't have gone into the net. Not only behind her but, having pushed her, was a part of why her arm was in the way of the ball. Her arm, btw, was by the side of her body and not in an unnatural position. How can you be cautioned for something out of your control, with your arm by your side and going behind your back, when the ball has been fired at you from around 5 yards away? It's nonsense. If she didn't do it deliberately it can't be a caution. If she did it deliberately then it should be a red card, surely?

And if the offside was the correct call, please explain how you have come to that conclusion. The cross came in, she was in an offside position but nowhere near the ball or blocking anyones line of sight. An England and China player challenge for the ball a good 9 or 10 yards away. By the time either of them touches it, Bronze is back in an onside position. That isn't offside and there's no way it can be. Ref's bent or clueless. End of.
asl
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For the offside:

"A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:

[Blah, blah]
challenging an opponent for the ball or
[Blah, blah]"

From the FA's website.

She was in an offside position when the ball was played in, that's 100% clear. She came back into an onside position to challenge for the ball. Shame, but she did - doesn't matter a lot whether or not she won the ball or the defender did.

For the hand-ball, I'm not convinced her arm was by her side. I'm not saying it was an 'unnatural position', but hand and ball clearly made contact with each other. If the keeper wasn't where she was, that would have been a red card as the ball would clearly have gone in if not for that intervention.

Not saying that law is correct - just saying I don't have any complaints about how the ref applied it.

Still...opinions, eh...?
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Shade
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asl wrote: 03 Aug 2023, 13:17 For the offside:

"A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:

[Blah, blah]
challenging an opponent for the ball or
[Blah, blah]"

From the FA's website.

She was in an offside position when the ball was played in, that's 100% clear. She came back into an onside position to challenge for the ball. Shame, but she did - doesn't matter a lot whether or not she won the ball or the defender did.

For the hand-ball, I'm not convinced her arm was by her side. I'm not saying it was an 'unnatural position', but hand and ball clearly made contact with each other. If the keeper wasn't where she was, that would have been a red card as the ball would clearly have gone in if not for that intervention.

Not saying that law is correct - just saying I don't have any complaints about how the ref applied it.

Still...opinions, eh...?
Indeed, the opinions make for an interesting debate :lol: But, going back to the bit I've put in bold, Bronze didn't challenge for the ball, Hemp did. At the moment Hemp and the China defender jumped for the ball, Bronze was well back onside and was then the first to get to the ball in the next phase. At no point when Bronze was offside did she challenge for or attempt to take possession of the ball or interfere with play or block the keepers line of sight, etc. I still don't see how the rule that you've quoted affects what happened, whatever the interpretation of it is.

I agree with your handball assessment, but I still think the yellow card was stupid and the current overall handball rule is stupid and VAR is stupid and they're all big dummies with poop for brains.

No, I am not having a childish tantrum... :D
asl
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I have to say, the standard of goalkeeping in the women's game improves notably, year on year.

Penalties for England after being comprehensively outplayed by Nigeria for the entire match - not helped by Lauren James' ridiculous red card.
asl
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Phew...
asl
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Touch of class from Chloe Kelly at the end, telling a cameraman to fk'off as she and another England player were trying to console the Nigerian keeper who was on the ground, understandably in tears.
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Shade
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Nigeria were the better team but it was really pissing me off just how much the commentators were banging on about how dominant Nigeria had been, and how many people I've seen since that said England were lucky. Having a good strong defence is not lucky. Nigeria only being able to get 2 shots on target in 120 minutes, 35 of them against 10 players, isn't England being lucky. England had double the number of shots on target, had 56% of possession and, up until they went down to 10, had double the number of passes completed. The way people have been going on, you'd think England were hanging on by their fingernails under relentless pressure and the goal was being bombarded. Again, Nigeria were the better team, but it wasn't anywhere near as one-sided as people have been making out. I think they were just expecting England to dominate so anything less = Nigeria were phenomenal. England weren't at their best, but dug in and found a way, as champions do. And their experience shone through in the penalty shoot-out.
asl
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I'd mostly agree with that... Nigeria had only one chance where I thought they really should score (the one she screwed wide with nobody near her). What Nigeria did very well was simply not allow England to play, closing down everything, very, very, quickly and forcing mistakes.
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Shade
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Some luck for both sides with their first half goals (no way did the Colombian shoot from there). England dominating the stats again, just need to get some of these on target shots not straight at the keeper.
asl
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Two goalkeeping errors, two goals. Howler from the Colombian keeper.
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Shade
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Get in. Champions find a way and see games out.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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asl wrote: 12 Aug 2023, 11:51 Two goalkeeping errors, two goals. Howler from the Colombian keeper.
Was it an error for their goal? Looked like a lucky cross-cum-shot to me.
asl
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Thought her positioning was all wrong, myself.
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Shade
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But if a shot had been arrowed at the near post, her positioning was perfect. Another debatable one.

The equalising goal, however...that's why women keepers keep being singled out by knobends who have to keep letting us know that they think women's football is soooo much worse than mens...but I remember Andre Onana making an almost identical mistake in the Champions League semi second leg v Spurs when Moura levelled the scores.

Anyway, tomorrow morning is going to be a massive test for the girls. Tough one to call but I'm slightly leaning with England again because Sarina has that knack of getting results, one way or another. Hoping it will turn out like the Euros semi and be an unexpected 4-0 win, though, with a Russo wonder goal.
asl
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The Colombian spill aside (and possibly today's winner from Spain), I've been telling anyone who'll listen that the standard of keeping has improved exponentially, season on season in the women's game.
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Shade
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What a f#!$ player Lauren Hemp is. If Messi did what she did for the third goal everyone would be creaming.
asl
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Great reverse pass! James to come in for the final? Maybe drop Russo and keep Toone and Hemp?
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Shade
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The way she kept the ball at the start of the move and then accelerated away from the woman as well. Great composure.

I'd keep James on the bench. Good player to bring on and although Toone hasn't been great she was more in the game and got that goal today, and Lessi's scored the clincher in the last two now. Same XI for me.
asl
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Wiegman's not known for tinkering with a winning team, so I suspect you're right.
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If only Russo and Hemp weren't out of our price range.
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asl wrote: 15 Aug 2023, 23:12 The Colombian spill aside (and possibly today's winner from Spain), I've been telling anyone who'll listen that the standard of keeping has improved exponentially, season on season in the women's game.
I agree. Previously there had been lots of instances of where their reaction time was too slow and the ball was passed them before completing a dive. I can't say I have seen it in this WWC.

Mary Earps is outstanding, probably one of the best or even the best in Women's football.
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Shade
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Red Duke wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 13:29
asl wrote: 15 Aug 2023, 23:12 The Colombian spill aside (and possibly today's winner from Spain), I've been telling anyone who'll listen that the standard of keeping has improved exponentially, season on season in the women's game.
I agree. Previously there had been lots of instances of where their reaction time was too slow and the ball was passed them before completing a dive. I can't say I have seen it in this WWC.

Mary Earps is outstanding, probably one of the best or even the best in Women's football.
That's why she won The Best women's goalkeeper award. Still unsure how Beth Mead didn't win The Best player. I hear she missed out by two votes, to a Spaniard (Putellas) who wasn't even fit and playing at the Euros...

Speaking of Mead, I honestly never thought England would get to the final with her, Williamson and Kirby all injured, and the goals of Ellen White missing. What a manager Wiegman is to get them through, and to her own fourth successive major tournament final.
asl
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What chance Serena being the first woman to be appointed full-time head coach for a men's team in England? If nothing else, it'd boil Mal's p!##!
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Shade
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asl wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 14:43 What chance Serena being the first woman to be appointed full-time head coach for a men's team in England? If nothing else, it'd boil Mal's p!##!
:lol:

I genuinely wonder how different it would be managing a mens team to a women's team. I'd imagine it would be a completely different set of skills when it comes to "man" management. Sarina seems to nurture her players, whereas you may need to bang a few heads in the mens game. But I suppose that may be a big difference between club and international football anyway, as the players being called up should already have the right mentality. Since the days of Bobby Robson and El Tel trying to keep Gazza under control, anyway.
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Longest VAR decision I have seen. Ridiculous.
asl
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Spain still looking the better. Anyone else watch Lucy Bronze run from right-back, into the centre circle and give the ball away, ultimately resulting in the goal, and get a flashback to Antony Griffin...?
asl
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote: 20 Aug 2023, 11:26 Longest VAR decision I have seen. Ridiculous.
Long wait, only to do that!
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asl wrote: 20 Aug 2023, 11:27 Spain still looking the better. Anyone else watch Lucy Bronze run from right-back, into the centre circle and give the ball away, ultimately resulting in the goal, and get a flashback to Antony Griffin...?
No - I was too busy being annoyed that the pundits didn’t spot Bronze shouting and pointing for Toone to make the run and trying to keep hold of the ball until Toone did so, which she didn’t until too late. That’s what Bronze was so angry at Toone when she lost the ball.

Toone been a bit lost in this match.
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