Luis Rubiales

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longmover
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66640485

this is utterly bonkers now, his mum going on hunger strike over it as well.

:roll:
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Shade
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And now the Spanish FA saying they will break away if UEFA sack him :lol: utterly ridiculous. Not that they ever will, surely, because, from what I've seen, the majority of clubs and fans in Spain want him to foxtrot oscar as well and would never stand for it.
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longmover
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As much as we moan about our FA Spain seem to have some very BIG issues to address in theirs.
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Ihearye
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Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
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longmover
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Ihearye wrote: 30 Aug 2023, 19:04 Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
bless you :lol:

So it's ok for blokes to continue to act like 7ossers as long as women are willing to retaliate to it?
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Ihearye
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longmover wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 08:29
Ihearye wrote: 30 Aug 2023, 19:04 Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
bless you :lol:

So it's ok for blokes to continue to act like 7ossers as long as women are willing to retaliate to it?
If we are to persecute men or women who act like tossers , then the courts would be full and the unemployed figures a lot higher
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Ihearye
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longmover wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 08:29
Ihearye wrote: 30 Aug 2023, 19:04 Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
bless you :lol:

So it's ok for blokes to continue to act like 7ossers as long as women are willing to retaliate to it?
The more I think about it, the more I think your opinion is absurd and laughable.
You may well be the only person male or female on earth, who asks permission of they may kiss someone. If that is your normal lifestyle, during your life, I would say you are in the minority.
On any night in town, I would argue there are a good number of men who are kissed without permission being sought first. Likewise I am sure there are many women who get kissed without permission being sought to do so

You see this as sexual assault. I tend to believe that most rational people would not see it as sexual assault. Indeed I think that terming this as sexual assault demeans and undermines what sexual assault was and is before we were all afraid to approach a person of the opposite or same sex.
Thanks for your patronising respond, but I would wager in your life, you have done the exact same, or have family members and friends who have. Hope you pursue them for the full force of the law
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Shade
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The thing is, if he had just owned it, apologised at the beginning, said he was overcome with joy at the win and in the moment kissed her, then it probably would have all been forgiven and forgotten.

From what I've heard, the Spanish women mostly thought it was just a humorous thing and have basically made to feel like they have had to take the stance of others that it was wrong.

Throughout history we have seen men and women kissing men, women, animals, trophies during times of joy. We've seen many straight (I assume) men kissing other men on the face after a big goal in a game. I'm not sticking up for any of them, it's not something I would ever feel comfortable doing - neither is tapping other guys on the ass but you see it all the time on football pitches for some reason. I prefer a good old fashioned back pat, if necessary.

Rubiales has just been unlucky enough to have done it at this time in history, and stupid enough not to have realised he should have just apologised immediately once a fuss had been made about it.
Wellwisher
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Ihearye wrote: 30 Aug 2023, 19:04 Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
Except if it descends to a slapping match, the man usually wins.

Besides, do you really expect her to have slapped him live on TV/Streaming, in front of millions of people all around the world? It's not really how these things work.

Either way, and whatever the rights and wrongs of the case, the whole thing has escalated far too far for Rubiales to retain his position. In fact he is the very definition of "proving to be a distraction."
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Wellwisher wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 19:04
Ihearye wrote: 30 Aug 2023, 19:04 Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
Except if it descends to a slapping match, the man usually wins.

Besides, do you really expect her to have slapped him live on TV/Streaming, in front of millions of people all around the world? It's not really how these things work.

Either way, and whatever the rights and wrongs of the case, the whole thing has escalated far too far for Rubiales to retain his position. In fact he is the very definition of "proving to be a distraction."
Also, just slapping him doesn’t stop him doing it to another woman, and another after that.

Not sure where ihearye is going drinking where loads of people are randomly kissing strangers who have given no indication they are happy to be kissed.

As Shade says had he just apologised straight away it would have been fine and blown over. Coming out and calling the player a liar for saying, when asked, she hadn’t consented was the worst thing he could have done as that is indicative of a bigger attitude/cultural problem than just doing something in the heat of a joyful moment.
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longmover
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Ihearye wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 14:51
longmover wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 08:29
Ihearye wrote: 30 Aug 2023, 19:04 Whatever happened tpba woman giving man a slap if he crossed the line, and that was the end of it
bless you :lol:

So it's ok for blokes to continue to act like 7ossers as long as women are willing to retaliate to it?
The more I think about it, the more I think your opinion is absurd and laughable.
You may well be the only person male or female on earth, who asks permission of they may kiss someone. If that is your normal lifestyle, during your life, I would say you are in the minority.
On any night in town, I would argue there are a good number of men who are kissed without permission being sought first. Likewise I am sure there are many women who get kissed without permission being sought to do so

You see this as sexual assault. I tend to believe that most rational people would not see it as sexual assault. Indeed I think that terming this as sexual assault demeans and undermines what sexual assault was and is before we were all afraid to approach a person of the opposite or same sex.
Thanks for your patronising respond, but I would wager in your life, you have done the exact same, or have family members and friends who have. Hope you pursue them for the full force of the law
total drivel, didn't really expect anything less tbh. I'll leave it at that.
Wellwisher
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Some interesting background on Rubiales and the Spanish FC here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFAeDXWYAE ... me=900x900

Note that being the Independent, it doesn't stoop to some of the more salacious rumours about Rubiales (sex parties etc) in eg The Sun or The Star.
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Ihearye
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longmover wrote: 01 Sep 2023, 09:56
Ihearye wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 14:51
longmover wrote: 31 Aug 2023, 08:29

bless you :lol:

So it's ok for blokes to continue to act like 7ossers as long as women are willing to retaliate to it?
The more I think about it, the more I think your opinion is absurd and laughable.
You may well be the only person male or female on earth, who asks permission of they may kiss someone. If that is your normal lifestyle, during your life, I would say you are in the minority.
On any night in town, I would argue there are a good number of men who are kissed without permission being sought first. Likewise I am sure there are many women who get kissed without permission being sought to do so

You see this as sexual assault. I tend to believe that most rational people would not see it as sexual assault. Indeed I think that terming this as sexual assault demeans and undermines what sexual assault was and is before we were all afraid to approach a person of the opposite or same sex.
Thanks for your patronising respond, but I would wager in your life, you have done the exact same, or have family members and friends who have. Hope you pursue them for the full force of the law
total drivel, didn't really expect anything less tbh. I'll leave it at that.
great reposte snow white, I am reading that as you also have never asked permission
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Ihearye
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Wellwisher wrote: 01 Sep 2023, 19:01 Some interesting background on Rubiales and the Spanish FC here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFAeDXWYAE ... me=900x900

Note that being the Independent, it doesn't stoop to some of the more salacious rumours about Rubiales (sex parties etc) in eg The Sun or The Star.
if anything illegal, I would expect to see him hauled before a court
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Wellwisher wrote: 01 Sep 2023, 19:01 Some interesting background on Rubiales and the Spanish FC here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFAeDXWYAE ... me=900x900

Note that being the Independent, it doesn't stoop to some of the more salacious rumours about Rubiales (sex parties etc) in eg The Sun or The Star.
That link is to a random photo of Per Mertesacker posing with a young player signing an Arsenal contract.
Wellwisher
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote: 02 Sep 2023, 20:18
Wellwisher wrote: 01 Sep 2023, 19:01 Some interesting background on Rubiales and the Spanish FC here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFAeDXWYAE ... me=900x900

Note that being the Independent, it doesn't stoop to some of the more salacious rumours about Rubiales (sex parties etc) in eg The Sun or The Star.
That link is to a random photo of Per Mertesacker posing with a young player signing an Arsenal contract.
Oops!

I think this was the link: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... p2v3xffzxc

There was also a very long piece on him in The Athletic (paywall), from which I've cut & pasted a selection:

As a footballer, [Rubiales] made his senior debut in the Andalusian regional league with Motril aged just 14, before joining the youth ranks of La Liga club Valencia. He did not quite make it to the top, but never shirked a challenge as a tough defender for Spanish clubs including Levante and Xerez, before finishing his career with three Scottish Premier League appearances for Hamilton Academical in 2009.

Along the way Rubiales picked up a law degree, and always showed a liking and aptitude for political battles.

In 2010, he became president of the Association de Futbalistas Espanyol (AFE) by outmanoeuvring the union’s chief of 22 years, Gerardo Gonzalez Movilla. He then quickly set about taking on La Liga president Javier Tebas, and was the face of a players’ strike that delayed the start of the 2011-12 season, with support from then-national team stars Iker Casillas and Xavi.

“Rubiales is a guy who needs to be the centre of attention,” says a source who worked with him around that time but declined to be named for this story, as did many others, to protect relationships.

Rubiales always had his eye on a more powerful position than whichever one he held. He was heavily involved in the motion of censure which led to Angel Maria Villar being deposed as RFEF president, after 29 years, in 2017. He had already been courting support among the power-brokering barons at Spain’s regional football federations, and easily won election as Villar’s replacement the following year.

His first official day as federation president was a harbinger of what was to come. He spent the morning giving a deposition in a Valencia court, then took the fast train the 300km (almost 200 miles) to Madrid for his confirmation, which was attended by his parents and his three daughters, but not their mother as the couple had by then separated.

Among Rubiales’ first acts as president was to dismiss men’s national-team coach Julen Lopetegui on the eve of that summer’s World Cup finals after it emerged he had agreed to step down and manage Real Madrid in the following club season. Although that torpedoed Spain’s chances of success in the tournament, Rubiales remained 100 per cent sure he had made the right decision. “(Barack) Obama told me that there are times when you just have to act,” he revealed after returning from Russia.

“On the pitch, he was always intense, always strong,” says a former federation employee. “And his management of the federation has been the same. He is a very extroverted guy; everything that he feels he expresses, with a very authoritarian way of acting.”

Clubs who do not agree with RFEF policy under Rubiales have received legal letters threatening them with expulsion from their division. An official at one third-tier club told The Athletic that, during meetings at the body’s offices, all visiting executives must leave their phones, turned off, on the table so Rubiales knows he is not being recorded.

After 2018, some women were put into significant roles at the federation, however over time they have all either left or been sidelined. Women’s football had never received enough resources or attention in Spain — the 2023 tournament they won this month was only the third World Cup the team have qualified for — and Rubiales did not change a long-running culture of sexism within its hierarchy and workings.

“The treatment we received was not correct, there were sexist attitudes, from many people there,” says a female coach who left the federation because of it.

The new RFEF president was also very keen to surround himself with people he knew and trusted.

His former Levante team-mate Felix Ettien was hired to be the federation’s official driver. Rubiales even hired his uncle Juan as his chief of staff.

Juan Rubiales had worked for 25 years as a journalist with the Antena 3 national TV station, covering current affairs and politics.

When his nephew was running for AFE president, Juan ran the campaign, writing press releases and organising events.

When Luis moved on from that post to the RFEF, he hired Juan, his father’s brother, to be his chief of staff, putting someone he was sure he could trust, a family member, right at the heart of his presidency.

“After Luis Rubiales, the person who knows most about what happened, was his uncle,” says a source who worked at the federation in those years.

This partnership ended in August 2020, when Juan surprisingly left the federation.

Staff at RFEF headquarters in Las Rozas, a short drive west of Madrid, were first told that the departure was amicable and had been agreed in advance. However, that explanation was blown up in May last year when Juan made a statement to Spanish government anti-corruption investigators alleging his nephew had misused federation funds. Rubiales and the RFEF strongly denied these allegations.

The most salacious allegation was the use of RFEF money to hire a chalet in Salobrena, a coastal village near Motril. What was officially called a work event was actually, the uncle claimed, a party for Rubiales and his closest associates, to which, investigators were told, “eight to 10 (young) women were invited”.

After a judicial investigation was launched, the costs of the event were reportedly repaid to the federation coffers by those who attended. Rubiales showed customary chutzpah when telling Spanish newspaper El Pais that it had been a “work event” which also featured “some leisure time with a barbecue with friends — men and women. It seems now you cannot have people of different genders having a drink and a paella together, which is what we did.”

This was just one of many scandals which began to swirl around Rubiales’ presidency. One in particular came to light due to what became known as the ‘Supercopa Files’ published by Spanish online publication El Confidencial.

An investigation by Spain’s anti-corruption authorities into the deal brokered by former Barcelona and Spain defender Gerard Pique’s company Kosmos to play the Spanish Supercopa (its equivalent to the Community Shield in English football) in Saudi Arabia is still underway. Pique has denied any wrongdoing. Spanish prosecutors are also looking at the use of RFEF money to pay for a trip to New York involving a stay at luxury hotels for Rubiales and his then-girlfriend.

“In the end, it will be shown that I have never misused federation money, never accepted anything that was not mine,” Rubiales said earlier this year.

There was also embarrassment caused by leaked audio and text messages showing Rubiales’ connections with Spanish politicians. He himself used a specially-designed pen to record conversations, including with former sports minister Irene Lozano, who later told reporters: “I always suspected I was being spied upon.”

The leaks included text messages between Rubiales and Spanish president Pedro Sanchez, in which Rubiales appeared to be trying to pressure the national head of government into taking his side in his ongoing battles for power and influence with La Liga counterpart Tebas.

Rubiales’ reaction whenever a new leak or allegation of wrongdoing was always to vehemently deny any wrongdoing, and blame external enemies — often Tebas. Regular court cases were also begun against those seen as getting in the federation’s way, especially La Liga.

A former staff member told The Athletic that, when it comes to reacting to such controversies, the RFEF legal department is more influential than the communications team, with general secretary Andreu Camps and legal advisor Tomas Gonzalez Cueto very powerful.

No statements were ever published without Rubiales and his very closest advisors’ knowledge — and they were often rewritten by the president’s office, or even Rubiales himself. “Every statement is released not just to influence the media coverage, but also preparing for the legal battles which are obviously coming,” one source says.

There is less control on show when Rubiales speaks in public.

He often strays into much more emotional turns of phrase, such as during the press conference in April last year called to react to El Confidencial’s stories about Pique’s lucrative role in the Saudi Supercopa move in 2019.

“This is like a mafia operation, to damage my image,” Rubiales said that day. “I’m just a normal guy from Motril. I go out with my friends, but I do not drink alcohol, do not smoke. I cannot guarantee that tomorrow morning someone won’t plant a bag of cocaine in my car, but I’m sure that I’m the good guy in all of this.”

Rubiales’ first reaction on being told that his kiss on Hermoso was being described as abuse was to label his critics “dickheads” and “losers” in a radio interview.

The RFEF also released a statement attributing quotes to Hermoso which she later denied having said, threatened her with legal action if she did not change her stance completely to agree with Rubiales’ version of events on the podium that night, and released photos which it claimed backed up what he was saying.

Female members of staff were then obliged to be in the front row for what they believed would be his resignation speech the following Friday, only to hear him again say that the kiss had been a consensual “little peck”. Instead of stepping down, Rubiales took aim at “false feminists” and said he was the victim of a long-running campaign of “social assassination”.

His speech was applauded by many of those present, who would have known that their ultimate boss was monitoring their reactions to it.

“When you talk to this guy, to Rubiales, he intimidates you, for the way he speaks and looks at you,” says a male former federation staff member. “There would have been a very intimidating atmosphere, and people felt obliged to do it (applaud).”

Luis Manuel Rubiales was born in Motril in 1953. A primary school teacher who had studied psychology, he was known as a strong disciplinarian. “It was another era,” one former student told El Espanol, when asked if physical punishment occurred in the classroom.

In 1987, Rubiales senior was elected to the city council representing the PSOE (the Spanish socialist workers’ party), and by 1995 he was mayor, serving until 2003, when political links brought him a post within the Andalusian regional government, also led by the PSOE.

He later returned to Motril to try to become mayor again, but fell out with PSOE colleagues. Following a failed attempt to start his own political party, he retired from public life until an investigation by the Guardia Civil, Spain’s oldest law enforcement agency, implicated him in the alleged misuse of public funds during his regional government role. In 2016, he said in court that he knew nothing about the payments which were under scrutiny.In February 2020, prosecutors in Seville asked for him and eight co-accused to be given prison sentences of three years. Over three years later, the case has yet to be brought to a conclusion.
Wellwisher
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Ihearye wrote: 02 Sep 2023, 17:22
Wellwisher wrote: 01 Sep 2023, 19:01 Some interesting background on Rubiales and the Spanish FC here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFAeDXWYAE ... me=900x900

Note that being the Independent, it doesn't stoop to some of the more salacious rumours about Rubiales (sex parties etc) in eg The Sun or The Star.
if anything illegal, I would expect to see him hauled before a court
I didn't say "illegal", rather I said the rumours were salacious i.e. creepy, in keeping with his behaviour at the Final.

Though if you are looking for illegality, perhaps the final paragraph in my previous post (above) might lead to something?

Anyhow, you don't have to be a convicted criminal to be a wrong 'un!
RegencyCheltenhamSpa
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Wow, what a sleaze bag. He could get a UK Cabinet position with that type of track record.
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Shade
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RFEF have sacked Vilda. No reason given, but a statement praising the way he led the team over the last 6 or 7 years and won the world cup. Basically, just been sacked because he's a Rubiales ally and was seen appluading him.
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