Premier League clubs in breakaway league

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Five Premier League clubs have signed up to a European Super League Plan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56794673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I and others predicted when people kicked up a fuss about the large financial deal the ‘big six’ proposed to help the EFL cope with Covid.

[ctfc-fan]

And?! What’s it got to do with the Covid loans?

[asl]

Gary Neville has just gone on an absolute rant saying this is "pure greed" by the club owners and is "a criminal act against every football fan."

[asl]

Kerry Packer, anyone...?


UEFA suggesting that players could be banned from playing internationally if they play for any of the clubs involved.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

And?! What’s it got to do with the Covid loans?

Last year Project Big Picture was leaked.

That proposal was from the top clubs, for the Premier League to offer the EFL £250 million. L1 and L2 would have been given grants not loans. Most chairmen were in favour. I even asked Andy Wilcox a question about it at a Q&A.

However, the £250m would have been given if the rest of the Premier League, FA and EFL agreed to some restructuring. This would have helped the finances of the bigger clubs to an extent, but would have stopped them plotting for a breakaway.

Many fans, including Longmover on here who started a thread about it, were against the move. The FSF was and so the media came out against it as well.

The big clubs then scrapped the plan due to the backlash.

There was opinion at the time, including from me on here, that fans and the moaners had essentially bitten the hand that feeds. People warned that sticking noses snd fingers up at the Covid support package would just accelerate the big clubs forming a breakaway league.

There could have been a good financial package for the lower leagues whilst breakaway talks would have been mothballed. Instead clubs in L1 and L2 are losing millions and we have the most firm breakaway plans yet.

[ctfc-fan]

Well if you think this is really going to get through then fair play but I cannot see it happening. There’s already uproar and the fact they’ve been found out could backfire in a very big way. Just watch the Gary Neville interview today....

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Well if you think this is really going to get through then fair play but I cannot see it happening. There’s already uproar and the fact they’ve been found out could backfire in a very big way. Just watch the Gary Neville interview today....

I just said the “most firm plans yet” not that it was happening right now. It inevitably will happen at some point though and it has accelerated in the last 18 months.

[ctfc-fan]

Well if you think this is really going to get through then fair play but I cannot see it happening. There’s already uproar and the fact they’ve been found out could backfire in a very big way. Just watch the Gary Neville interview today....

I just said the “most firm plans yet” not that it was happening right now. It inevitably will happen at some point though and it has accelerated in the last 18 months.

Your initial post is basically saying we should have taken the Covid money and this wouldn’t have happened. Sorry but that’s absolute rubbish.

The FA now need to set the rules. Any club that breaks away cannot be allowed to sign a player from the remaining leagues. If all countries do this then they’ll be screwed. Make every team in the EFL sign to state this. Strangle their new talent pool at source.

[Sprout Picker]

And?! What’s it got to do with the Covid loans?

Last year Project Big Picture was leaked.

That proposal was from the top clubs, for the Premier League to offer the EFL £250 million. L1 and L2 would have been given grants not loans. Most chairmen were in favour. I even asked Andy Wilcox a question about it at a Q&A.

However, the £250m would have been given if the rest of the Premier League, FA and EFL agreed to some restructuring. This would have helped the finances of the bigger clubs to an extent, but would have stopped them plotting for a breakaway.

Many fans, including Longmover on here who started a thread about it, were against the move. The FSF was and so the media came out against it as well.

The big clubs then scrapped the plan due to the backlash.

There was opinion at the time, including from me on here, that fans and the moaners had essentially bitten the hand that feeds. People warned that sticking noses snd fingers up at the Covid support package would just accelerate the big clubs forming a breakaway league.

There could have been a good financial package for the lower leagues whilst breakaway talks would have been mothballed. Instead clubs in L1 and L2 are losing millions and we have the most firm breakaway plans yet.

It's all very well banging on about grants but what happens in the years to follow? Do you really think the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool are going to constantly dish out funds to other smaller clubs season after season of their own free will?!

As far as I'm concerned they can f**k off now with the various restrictions put in place by UEFA, FIFA, the FA and whoever else preventing them and their players participating in other competitions.

They may be using it to try and force UEFA into giving them a 'better' deal in the Champions League but as ASL says this could be another Kerry Packer situation.

[Ralph]

Gary Neville has just gone on an absolute rant saying this is "pure greed" by the club owners and is "a criminal act against every football fan."

He's 100% right.

[Ralph]

And?! What’s it got to do with the Covid loans?

Last year Project Big Picture was leaked.

That proposal was from the top clubs, for the Premier League to offer the EFL £250 million. L1 and L2 would have been given grants not loans. Most chairmen were in favour. I even asked Andy Wilcox a question about it at a Q&A.

However, the £250m would have been given if the rest of the Premier League, FA and EFL agreed to some restructuring. This would have helped the finances of the bigger clubs to an extent, but would have stopped them plotting for a breakaway.

Many fans, including Longmover on here who started a thread about it, were against the move. The FSF was and so the media came out against it as well.

The big clubs then scrapped the plan due to the backlash.

There was opinion at the time, including from me on here, that fans and the moaners had essentially bitten the hand that feeds. People warned that sticking noses snd fingers up at the Covid support package would just accelerate the big clubs forming a breakaway league.

There could have been a good financial package for the lower leagues whilst breakaway talks would have been mothballed. Instead clubs in L1 and L2 are losing millions and we have the most firm breakaway plans yet.

It's all very well banging on about grants but what happens in the years to follow? Do you really think the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool are going to constantly dish out funds to other smaller clubs season after season of their own free will?!

As far as I'm concerned they can f**k off now with the various restrictions put in place by UEFA, FIFA, the FA and whoever else preventing them and their players participating in other competitions.

They may be using it to try and force UEFA into giving them a 'better' deal in the Champions League but as ASL says this could be another Kerry Packer situation.

Just tell them to go now. No buying or selling players from any league outside of the super league, No players ever playing for their countries again. Just send them off. Have to say, football would be a lot more interesting without them. Good to see the French and German teams saying that they wanted no part of it.

As for forcing UEFA to give them more money to stay? No, go.. just play in your own little bubble. I do think there would be an uprising from the fans.

[Ralph]

Nevilles rant here
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's totally right.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Super League website up and running, although with barely any content yet:

https://thesuperleague.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, slightly ironic that Neville made his rant on Sky, who started the whole thing off when they helped set up the Premier League and the subsequent global tv deals and crazy money.

[ctfc-fan]

It’s amazing reading the BBC that this is supposed to be a midweek competition when these clubs are already grizzling about they play too many games. So which English games are they looking to withdraw from??


What these teams haven’t thought about, or perhaps don’t give a damn about, is the supporters who would have to travel to different countries every week. Granted I think there are plenty of fans who would but not everyone can afford to. They mention Covid has brought this to light with finances but are they seriously thinking it wouldn’t have affected this competition?

This is the time to really crack the whip and knuckle down on these clubs. Punish them hard.

In future all new club owners should be forced to sign a contract which states they cannot play in any other competition not endorsed by the FA etc. and if they do they will be banned from all competitions therefore making the club worthless.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I guess they are doing it instead of the Champions League, so it will replace those games. But yeh, the domestic Cups must be in doubt (or they will just have different squads for domestic games).

As for fans, I am sure the clubs will argue they are acting in the interests of their half a billion or more fans around the world, who would rather watch them play Real and Juve than Burnley or Norwich.

And as for threats and making the club worthless....I suspect that any tv/streaming rights the clubs negotiate for Super League games will dwarf any losses from being banned from FA endorsed competitions. Again, tv/streaming audiences in China, India, and the Americas will pay more to see Man U playing Real, Barca and Juve more often than they do to watch Man U play FC Ludogrets, Malmö, Brighton, West Brom etc.

Unfortunately, the FA and Premier League are over a barrel. If they punish the 6 rebels then those rebels might just quit the Premier League. A few million in the U.K. might like seeing West Ham, Leicester, Wolves, etc competing for the title, but the billions around the world who fund the massive TV/streaming deals don’t.

If the 6 rebels leave the Premier League then the league will basically lose all it’s global TV income, and I cannot see the Premier League executives or other clubs agreeing to that. Losing the global TV money would completely change the business model of British football....those wanting to punished the 6 rebels gave to decide whether they want to risk that or not.

It is a business decision at the end of the day. The breakaway clubs want to maximise revenue from their global brand and audiences. The Premier League and Champions League only exist as money making businesses to maximise collective revenue. It will take a business deal to resolve.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Btw, I think it is a bad idea and I am completely against it before anyone gets the wrong impression. Same as I was against the National League North and South clubs who wanted to create a closed breakaway a few months ago.

I can completely understand the motivation and business case from the individual clubs’ perspective though.

If they do kick the big 6 out then can they let Fulham stay up please

[Red Duke]

Listening to David Bernstein former chairman of Man City on Breakfast TV, he said the reason behind it was the amount of debt that has been used to finance these clubs. The drive behind it, is the fear is that non-qualificaton to the Champions League drastically effects their ability to service the loans. By forming a no-relegation super league allays these fears. i.e the American Sports model.

[longmover]

Listening to David Bernstein former chairman of Man City on Breakfast TV, he said the reason behind it was the amount of debt that has been used to finance these clubs. The drive behind it, is the fear is that non-qualificaton to the Champions League drastically effects their ability to service the loans. By forming a no-relegation super league allays these fears. i.e the American Sports model.

[Ralph]

So Mourinho was sacked at Spurs today. Reading some of the comments, it might have been because he refused to take the team out training as he wanted no part in the ESL. He had said when asked before that he never wanted to be part of that if it happened. Or yes it could also be because of a not so good season. Just interesting that it happened the day the ESL became sort of official

[Malabus]

Are people still shocked that money motivates the owners and the game. The game has gone down the pan since 1992.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Are people still shocked that money motivates the owners and the game. The game has gone down the pan since 1992.

Completely. How many of those complaining have paying for Sky Sports for the last 30 years!

Also a lot of Brits wanting their cake and to eat it over this issue. There are essentially two options:

1. Clubs as community assets. So government grants for artificial pitches at lower levels. Salary caps. Ticket price caps. Majority fan/community ownership etc. Clubs protected from going bust, stadiums protected.

2. Clubs as private businesses, shareholder owned, global brands. Sky Sports, £300k/week wages, anti-social kick off times, global media and image rights. Clubs allowed to go bust, sell grounds, etc as needed to benefit shareholders around the world.

Some people are committed to one or the other. Some pick and choose when it suits them.

As things currently stand, I do find it concerning that the Government is trying to intervene in private businesses. Imagine if Boris came out and spoke against every planned new product or merger proposed by a multinational company. Man U are listed on the NYSE I believe. It is a legal nightmare for the UK government to be intervening.

If the ESL is canned you can guarantee Boris won’t speak out against the next ridiculous TV deal for the Premier League, or the next leveraged buy out by international investors, which sums up a lot of the double standards flying around right now.

[SHANDY VOR]

I was only just getting used to Brexit and now football is talking about Brentry!

[Shade]

Nobody is shocked they want money. People are a bit surprised that they want money so much that they're willing to say FO to the rest of Europe, and essentially turn it into some American-style "you finish bottom? No problem, have some money" uncompetitive c!#p where a team can literally have nothing to play for for half a season, and every other club is stuck out in the cold, not allowed to play with their ball. What a treat for the fans.

f#!$ 'em, I say. They want to do that, kick them out. They can play all they want with their big buddies with players who are nothing but mercenaries, because the decent people amongst the players will want to play for their national sides.

[ctfc-fan]

So UEFA have already stated no player will be allowed to play in the World Cup. What will the players make of this??

One thing that strikes me is the PL has got more open now and the ‘big’ teams can and do get beaten by the bottom teams. Are they running scared of this threat to their superiority by all the new money coming in?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

So UEFA have already stated no player will be allowed to play in the World Cup. What will the players make of this??

One thing that strikes me is the PL has got more open now and the ‘big’ teams can and do get beaten by the bottom teams. Are they running scared of this threat to their superiority by all the new money coming in?

I would say yes. Their business models rely on Champions League year in year out.

If that isn’t a certainty, it is too big a risk. So they want to make it a certainty.

David Conn’s thoughts on why the six are doing it: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... n-football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Guardian has also found an unpublished document hidden in the code of the Super League website: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -breakaway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Red Duke]

The most telling point in the unpublished document:

"Citing Covid, it warns that the accumulated losses of top-level clubs exceed €5bn (£4.3bn). “The value of live media rights is stagnating or declining as some of our competitions fail to meet the needs of fans and new generations seek entertainment in ways which didn’t exist 10 years ago,” it says."

This is what it is all about and nothing else.

[asl]

Liverpool fan groups are removing their flags and banners from the stands at Anfield in protest.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Real President says ESL will save football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56812151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only thing I do appreciate from what he is saying is that people don’t want to watch poor, boring, or meaningless games.

However, there is no guarantee that the ESL won’t have as many dull games as other competitions.

Sure, having the top eight go through to a knock out round might be exciting because that knock out round will have jeopardy. But during the league bit, if City and Real are already qualified with five games to go, and Arsenal and Milan are marooned as the bottom with five games to go, then that is 20 pointless games with nothing riding in them right there.

Maybe ultimately the problem is too much football on TV? In the days when only important games where the result mattered were shown, there was that excitement and jeopardy. Now when you can spend a weekend watching five games which are all end of season mid-table clashes which don’t mean anything to anyone then it numbs the effect.

[longmover]

Real President says ESL will save football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56812151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only thing I do appreciate from what he is saying is that people don’t want to watch poor, boring, or meaningless games.

However, there is no guarantee that the ESL won’t have as many dull games as other competitions.

Sure, having the top eight go through to a knock out round might be exciting because that knock out round will have jeopardy. But during the league bit, if City and Real are already qualified with five games to go, and Arsenal and Milan are marooned as the bottom with five games to go, then that is 20 pointless games with nothing riding in them right there.

Maybe ultimately the problem is too much football on TV? In the days when only important games where the result mattered were shown, there was that excitement and jeopardy. Now when you can spend a weekend watching five games which are all end of season mid-table clashes which don’t mean anything to anyone then it numbs the effect.

There's too much football on TV for the European market but for the Asian market this is like 1992 all over again, and 'this' is what its all about.

[Shade]

Man Utd v Arsenal or Man City v Chelsea is just as likely to be boring as Newcastle v Burnley. Uefa were idiotic to allow BT Sport to buy the Champions League rights in this country, without a game on ITV, essentially making the competition invisible to most of the UK public.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Man Utd v Arsenal or Man City v Chelsea is just as likely to be boring as Newcastle v Burnley. Uefa were idiotic to allow BT Sport to buy the Champions League rights in this country, without a game on ITV, essentially making the competition invisible to most of the UK public.

The games might be boring but the significance is often more important. A Man City vs Chelsea game is more likely to be a semi final or final, or have implications for the title race, etc. Even cards and injuries are more significant...as these can effect future trophy battles.

I personally don’t really care about the game itself. I would rather watch a really boring game where the loser gets relegated than a really entertaining game where nothing rides on it.

This is why I don’t mind spending £10 to watch awful away games on iFollow, because the result matters. If we were 15th I would have stopped bothering months ago.

I appreciate others have a more general interest in watching games in their own merit.

[Red Duke]

Real President says ESL will save football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56812151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only thing that the ESL would save is Real Madrid from going bust.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

On the point of double standards, it is amazing how anti-capitalist everyone has become. If people were making the same objections about big companies, or billionaires in other sectors then they would be patronised as communists, or having the politics of envy, or of scaring rich people out of the UK. Yet now everyone is clamouring for unprecedented state intervention and complaining about ‘greed’. A glib response would be that everyone is just jealous and hey, if other clubs were less feckless and worked hard they could do the same.

Also, Patrick Bamford made a good point post match last night saying that now money is involved UEFA and the Premier League are going to lose money they are talking about banning clubs and players....but just a shame they don’t show the same outrage and action against racism.

I would also add similar sentiment that UEFA nations should be boycotting the whole World Cup in Qatar due to human rights abuses, rather than making a fuss about banning players just because they want to play for the highest paying club.

[asl]

https://newsthump.com/2021/04/19/europe ... n-t-shirt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[longmover]

Will be interesting how these teams and their fans will be received when the season 21/22 kicks off and we're back(?) to full stadia