FGR

[Ten Bobsworth]

So is the general point being made here that we're owned by a dodgy b#!#%#d?

Seriously though, there does seem to be a pretty high turnover of directors at the company. A number of terminations/appointments in their recent filing history. Is that unusual?

Everything about it's unusual including why nobody seems to have noticed anything unusual since 2015.

[Red Duke]

So is the general point being made here that we're owned by a dodgy b#!#%#d?

Seriously though, there does seem to be a pretty high turnover of directors at the company. A number of terminations/appointments in their recent filing history. Is that unusual?

Everything about it's unusual including why nobody seems to have noticed anything unusual since 2015.

Another example of auditors not doing their jobs properly?

[Ten Bobsworth]

Another example of auditors not doing their jobs properly?[/quote]

You might think that but the over-estimated debtors (black hole) was reported in January 2018 when Finance Director, Karen Coombes, signed off the 2017 accounts. She'd only been FD for a few weeks and had gone within the year.

I was really referring to the apparent absence of media comment since 2015, local and national.

[Ben version 4:0]

I couldn't resist joining in with this one...

Is it me or does the 'Sustainability in sport' logo ( http://www.sustainabilityinsport.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) bear a striking resemblance to a League two team badge ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Green_Rovers_F.C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. )?

When I say 'resemblance' I mean to say - they're the same

[Ten Bobsworth]

I couldn't resist joining in with this one...

Is it me or does the 'Sustainability in sport' logo ( http://www.sustainabilityinsport.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) bear a striking resemblance to a League two team badge ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Green_Rovers_F.C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. )?

When I say 'resemblance' I mean to say - they're the same

The Sustainability in Sport Foundation has been going since 2012. Can anyone tell me what its done? About the square root of sod all so far as I can see but I'm always keen to be more informed. One of its three trustees parted company with Ecotricity and FGR recently. Does anyone know why?

[Red Duke]

I couldn't resist joining in with this one...

Is it me or does the 'Sustainability in sport' logo ( http://www.sustainabilityinsport.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) bear a striking resemblance to a League two team badge ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Green_Rovers_F.C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. )?

When I say 'resemblance' I mean to say - they're the same

I see that Ben3 has gone through another reincarnation and has come out this time as Ben version 4:0.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I couldn't resist joining in with this one...

Is it me or does the 'Sustainability in sport' logo ( http://www.sustainabilityinsport.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) bear a striking resemblance to a League two team badge ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Green_Rovers_F.C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. )?

When I say 'resemblance' I mean to say - they're the same

The Sustainability in Sport Foundation has been going since 2012. Can anyone tell me what its done? About the square root of sod all so far as I can see but I'm always keen to be more informed. One of its three trustees parted company with Ecotricity and FGR recently. Does anyone know why?

It doesn’t do much. 2020 reporting shows income and expenditure data for financial year ending 30 April 2020:

Total income: £11,269
Total expenditure: £15,730

That will be enough to run a part time education officer, or to print some materials, or run a few promotional events, etc. Just low level charity stuff really.

[Ten Bobsworth]

I couldn't resist joining in with this one...

Is it me or does the 'Sustainability in sport' logo ( http://www.sustainabilityinsport.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) bear a striking resemblance to a League two team badge ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Green_Rovers_F.C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. )?

When I say 'resemblance' I mean to say - they're the same

The Sustainability in Sport Foundation has been going since 2012. Can anyone tell me what its done? About the square root of sod all so far as I can see but I'm always keen to be more informed. One of its three trustees parted company with Ecotricity and FGR recently. Does anyone know why?

It doesn’t do much. 2020 reporting shows income and expenditure data for financial year ending 30 April 2020:

Total income: £11,269
Total expenditure: £15,730

They've filed Annual Returns but NEVER filed any accounts! So we don't know what its done or where the £15,730 ended up in the last year. Its small beer though, isn't it?

Much more interesting is the recent resignation from the boards of Ecotricity and FGR of the third trustee. Local media wouldn't be looking the other way for some reason, would they?

[Ten Bobsworth]

Sorry RCS. I'm new to this forum and seem to have messed up the quote facility. Sometimes there's an edit facility and sometimes there isn't. I expect I'll get used to it if I stick around long enough.

[Ten Bobsworth]

It's all well and good carrying on, but may I ask what it has to do with Cheltenham Town or League 1?

Football finance is revelant to all football fans.

As the table at the top of the page shows league 2, it is additionly relevant as they are in the same league.

Once that changes to League 1 then discussions about FGR finances would be in Other Football.

Its probably a good idea for 'FGR' to be moved to Other Football now but just to continue a little, did Dale Vince stop taking £millions out of Ecotricity when it was 'discovered' that Ecotricity was losing £millions?

Not exactly. £2.2m was taken out in 2016/17, £215K in 2017/18, £1.06million in 2018/19 and £116K in 2019/20 taking the overdrawn interest-free director's loan account balance to £2.134million (on top of any salaries paid to himself and his wife).

Where has all this money gone (about £12million in total from a company that, according to its own accounts, has lost £27.6million over the last ten years - half of it FGR) and why, Rishi, should taxpayers have to prop it up?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

It's all well and good carrying on, but may I ask what it has to do with Cheltenham Town or League 1?

Football finance is revelant to all football fans.

As the table at the top of the page shows league 2, it is additionly relevant as they are in the same league.

Once that changes to League 1 then discussions about FGR finances would be in Other Football.

Its probably a good idea for 'FGR' to be moved to Other Football now but just to continue a little, did Dale Vince stop taking £millions out of Ecotricity when it was 'discovered' that Ecotricity was losing £millions?

Not exactly. £2.2m was taken out in 2016/17, £215K in 2017/18, £1.06million in 2018/19 and £116K in 2019/20 taking the overdrawn interest-free director's loan account balance to £2.134million (on top of any salaries paid to himself and his wife).

Where has all this money gone (about £12million in total from a company that, according to its own accounts, has lost £27.6million over the last ten years - half of it FGR) and why, Rishi, should taxpayers have to prop it up?

Thank god it was only millions. Look how frequently we see people take out billions (Phillip Green for example) before their company goes bust. Or train companies who get millions if not billions from the tax payer whilst also paying out huge dividends and bonuses.

Using the ordinary persons tax contributions to bailout companies, pay dividends, bonuses and line the pockets of big business leaders is again nothing new...it is how the British system works.

Hard to know where Vince’s money has gone as the sums you are talking about are small fry compared to those who use the cash for yachts etc.

[Ten Bobsworth]

Its probably a good idea for 'FGR' to be moved to Other Football now but just to continue a little, did Dale Vince stop taking £millions out of Ecotricity when it was 'discovered' that Ecotricity was losing £millions?

Not exactly. £2.2m was taken out in 2016/17, £215K in 2017/18, £1.06million in 2018/19 and £116K in 2019/20 taking the overdrawn interest-free director's loan account balance to £2.134million (on top of any salaries paid to himself and his wife).

Where has all this money gone (about £12million in total from a company that, according to its own accounts, has lost £27.6million over the last ten years - half of it FGR) and why, Rishi, should taxpayers have to prop it up?

Thank god it was only millions. Look how frequently we see people take out billions (Phillip Green for example) before their company goes bust. Or train companies who get millions if not billions from the tax payer whilst also paying out huge dividends and bonuses.

Using the ordinary persons tax contributions to bailout companies, pay dividends, bonuses and line the pockets of big business leaders is again nothing new...it is how the British system works.

Hard to know where Vince’s money has gone as the sums you are talking about are small fry compared to those who use the cash for yachts etc.

Not just the 'British system', RCS.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/russi ... don-558887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And Philip Green isn't the only one with a super yacht.

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/5 ... our-wallet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Would you like to know the connection between Vasily Anisimov and former Bolton owner, Ken Anderson?

So would I, but here's a starter for ten.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Shade]

Not only does this need moving to "Other Footy", but the description of this forum needs updating from League 2 to League 1

[Ralph]

Fixed your quotes for you TB. Just be aware you can't quote more than 3 other people in a post. Just hit the quote button and everything should then work fine. Carry on!

[Red Duke]

Not only does this need moving to "Other Footy", but the description of this forum needs updating from League 2 to League 1

The first part appears to have been done and the FGR post is now in other Footy.

[Ten Bobsworth]

Fixed your quotes for you TB. Just be aware you can't quote more than 3 other people in a post. Just hit the quote button and everything should then work fine. Carry on!

Thanks Ralph.
It still seems v. odd to me that no-one has picked up on this story in the last six years. Its all info in the public domain for heavens sake !!!!!

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Fixed your quotes for you TB. Just be aware you can't quote more than 3 other people in a post. Just hit the quote button and everything should then work fine. Carry on!

Thanks Ralph.
It still seems v. odd to me that no-one has picked up on this story in the last six years. Its all info in the public domain for heavens sake !!!!!

I think it is because the story isn’t really a great one. “Business in dodgy accounting shock, but with much smaller sums of money than hundreds and hundreds of other businesses who do the same if not worse, and who actually produce a socially, economically and environmentally positive product.” Not exactly scandal of the century.

[Ten Bobsworth]

Fixed your quotes for you TB. Just be aware you can't quote more than 3 other people in a post. Just hit the quote button and everything should then work fine. Carry on!

Thanks Ralph.
It still seems v. odd to me that no-one has picked up on this story in the last six years. Its all info in the public domain for heavens sake !!!!!

I think it is because the story isn’t really a great one. “Business in dodgy accounting shock, but with much smaller sums of money than hundreds and hundreds of other businesses who do the same if not worse, and who actually produce a socially, economically and environmentally positive product.” Not exactly scandal of the century.

There have been a few accounting scandals over the years involving larger amounts of money but I'm afraid that the idea that anything goes in accountancy is simply a long way from the truth. Dale Vince may not be the Prime Minister but he does have a high profile and sits on a high horse by his own choice whilst there's been no shortage of column inches devoted to G Lineker and other celebs further enriching themselves by trying to take advantage of questionable tax arrangements.

The over-statement of debtors by £11million might have been an unfortunate oversight or mistake but are you aware of any other energy companies that made the same mistake whilst the owner was drawing out £millions in interest-free loans?

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Why are you just concerned about energy companies? Do you work for a competitor or something?

Most energy companies have a different ownership structure. But this is a structure which finds creative ways to reward shareholders, whether through artificial transfer pricing to hide losses (or profits) or ratchet pricing which go up when wholesale costs rise but don’t fall when they go down, or just in the last two months firing and rehiring staff.

I agree with you that what DV has done doesn’t sit right, but it is how big business works in Britain and he will by no means be the worst offender and the sums involved are low compared to many.

Why don’t you write an article with all your sources and evidence and send it to newspapers. It might be no one has picked it up because no one has looked for it, and you can change that. Private Eye or Byline Times might investigate it at least if you send to them as well, even if proper papers won’t.

[Ten Bobsworth]

I've been retired for years now and never had any involvement with energy companies except as a customer like everyone else. But I did spend many years working as an auditor and have a fair amount of experience in recognising when explanations are implausible or someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes and take you for a twerp.

Many football fans, in my experience, prefer fantasies to facts and some are extremely hostile to any facts that don't fit in with their preconceptions. Try telling any Bolton supporter that Sam Allardyce was talking through his backside when he claimed, in his book, that the Reebok was a £100million stadium and Bolton Wanderers had debts of £45million when he arrived at the club in 1999.

Allardyce quite recently claimed that he understood balance sheets because his accountant had taught him. Heaven only knows where Allardyce thought the other £55million might have come from.

In another work of pure fiction, the Chief Football Writer at the Bolton News (BN) claimed in August 2018 that the Reebok Stadium was funded by former chairman, Gordon Hargreaves. Actually the most Gordon Hargreaves ever put into the club was about £50K in 1992 to help fund the purchase of David Lee from Southampton.

The Reebok's now known as the Unibol (short for University of Bolton) but who actually funded it? If you believed the daily BN you wouldn't have a clue but it was mainly funded by debt which grew and grew until it was all eventually paid off by the late Eddie Davies as part of the nearly £200million he spent on the club he'd supported since Nat Lofthouse was in his heyday. Not that you will notice any sign of ED's legacy if you visit the impressive Reebok next season, unless you happen to be invited into the President's Suite.

My interest in Dale Vince stemmed from the aborted sale of Christian Doidge to Bolton in August 2018 and all the garbage that was written and promoted surrounding it. That's another story but I don't really have 'sources', as you put it, other than Companies House, published articles and the LinkedIn page of Ecotricity's former FD, Paul Wheatcroft, in which he lists his Key Achievements at Ecotricity. One that caught my eye was:

• Spent 6 years working to bring issues with HMRC relating to earlier years to a satisfactory conclusion.

It was a bit of a longshot to see if anyone on Robins Nest had any confirmatory or contradictory info.

[asl]

It was a bit of a longshot to see if anyone on Robins Nest had any confirmatory or contradictory info.

We really need OTC to phone The Girl In The Office to clarify things. Or even ask DV, himself. That would set the record straight with a "Gotcha."

Interesting stuff, Mr 50p. Be good to hear if you turn up anything else.

[Ralph]

Yep, I've enjoyed reading too TB. Carry on...

[Ten Bobsworth]

Yep, I've enjoyed reading too TB. Carry on...

A bit more news for you, Ralph.
https://www.businessgreen.com/news/4032 ... -gridserve" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Been wondering how Lord Rodborough was going to get by. £90m owed to HSBC and another £50m to Ecobond holders is a helluva lot of debt, especially to a loss making group of companies.
How much has Gridserve (or Hitachi Capital) paid? I don't know and can't be bothered registering with Business Green.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Yep, I've enjoyed reading too TB. Carry on...

A bit more news for you, Ralph.
https://www.businessgreen.com/news/4032 ... -gridserve" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Been wondering how Lord Rodborough was going to get by. £90m owed to HSBC and another £50m to Ecobond holders is a helluva lot of debt, especially to a loss making group of companies.
How much has Gridserve (or Hitachi Capital) paid? I don't know and can't be bothered registering with Business Green.

More info here but not figures given. Interesting to see DV’s comments on level of investment needed in the Electric Highway.

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/gri ... ic-highway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ten Bobsworth]

https://www.businessgreen.com/news/4032 ... -gridserve" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Been wondering how Lord Rodborough was going to get by. £90m owed to HSBC and another £50m to Ecobond holders is a helluva lot of debt, especially to a loss making group of companies.
How much has Gridserve (or Hitachi Capital) paid? I don't know and can't be bothered registering with Business Green.[/quote]

More info here but not figures given. Interesting to see DV’s comments on level of investment needed in the Electric Highway.

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/gri ... ic-highway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]

Interesting to see DV's spin, if you ask me.

[Ten Bobsworth]

A few comments in the Stroud News and Journal on the latest news from Cousin Vinny land.

BobinStroud
9th June 10:59 am
Hopefully whoever buys it from them actually keeps the network maintained, Ecotricity have been pee poor at making sure the stations are fixed.

TootingBull
9th June 12:49 pm
The cheers you can hear are from the EV drivers of the UK.
The network had been left for years and serious (non-taxpayer) investment needed.
Still need to end the monopoly at service stations though.

Mr Half day gang
10th June 05:22 pm
personally i dont like the man or some of his business practices,

[Ten Bobsworth]

Still no 2020 accounts from FGR. Today is filing deadline day already extended by 3 months for COVID.

Its filing deadline day for another 6 of last season's League 2 sides too.

Bolton and Newport have missed their earlier deadlines whilst Southend haven't filed their 2019 accounts yet.

Heel dragging?

[longmover]

Still no 2020 accounts from FGR. Today is filing deadline day already extended by 3 months for COVID.

Its filing deadline day for another 6 of last season's League 2 sides too.

Bolton and Newport have missed their earlier deadlines whilst Southend haven't filed their 2019 accounts yet.

Heel dragging?

Nothing will happen of any concern so what's the point in being above board? We all know cheats prosper in football.

[Chris FGR]

Our accounts for 2020 now filed.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ctfc-fan]

So they’ve made a profit finally!

[Ten Bobsworth]

So they’ve made a profit finally!

You could put it like that but if you take a closer look you'll see that Vince makes massive charges from FGR to Ecotricity that in 2020 has turned loss into profit. It was £2.6million last year and £2.7million the year before. Can Ecotricity afford it? Can it heck.
See note 20 on page 27 of the 2020 accounts.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;