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 Post subject: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 06 Jun 2021, 18:08 
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Forget England - Nothing will be won under Gareth Southgate reign.

Two teams for me : Spain or Italy to win outright. I've gone for the latter, Italy @10/1.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 06 Jun 2021, 19:10 
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Based on your last prediction (re: Robins chances of promotion), I feel inclined to lump on England now :lol: !


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 10:34 
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If France or Belgium don't win it/go out to each other then they have worse managers than we do.

Can't believe Southgate has picked another defender in place of TAA, and not a midfielder. Although White can play defensive midfield if necessary, we have 2.5 defensive midfielders already, with Rice, Phillips and a half fit Henderson.

Expecting him to pick Sterling and Rashford either side of Kane for the opening game next Sunday, despite them being the two least in-form attacking options he has. Sterling has been that useless for England, and Man City lately, that I wouldn't have even had him in the squad.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 11:37 
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I would drop Kane. He distorts the focus of the team and play, and often starts coming too deep.

Get Rashford, Sterling, Foden and Mount all starting.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 12:45 
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You can't drop Kane: give him half a sniff of a chance and he'll stick it in the net - unlike Rashford and Sterling. Kane and Foden are the two genuinely world-class players in the squad. I fear for the defence (particularly if Maguire's fit) and Pickford is no Pope.

Better England squads than this one have gone out in the group stages.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 13:20 
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Not exactly the easy group that a lot would make out either; the last beaten World Cup finalists, a country that have actually found some kind of form and always raise their game 100% against their hated neighbours, and a team that drew with Belgium in a WC qualifier in March. I can easily see us slipping out in the group. However, if Southgate gets it right and the players turn up then we SHOULD be able to outscore any of them, even with a dodgy defence, and could win the group comfortably with 3 wins.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021, 13:26 
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asl wrote:
You can't drop Kane: give him half a sniff of a chance and he'll stick it in the net - unlike Rashford and Sterling. Kane and Foden are the two genuinely world-class players in the squad. I fear for the defence (particularly if Maguire's fit) and Pickford is no Pope.

Better England squads than this one have gone out in the group stages.


Shame he didn’t stick it in the net in the WC semi final, when it was an easy chance, let alone a sniff!


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 09:56 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
asl wrote:
You can't drop Kane: give him half a sniff of a chance and he'll stick it in the net - unlike Rashford and Sterling. Kane and Foden are the two genuinely world-class players in the squad. I fear for the defence (particularly if Maguire's fit) and Pickford is no Pope.

Better England squads than this one have gone out in the group stages.


Shame he didn’t stick it in the net in the WC semi final, when it was an easy chance, let alone a sniff!

So you'll drop our most likely goalscorer because of one missed chance three years ago?! :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 10:45 
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Sprout Picker wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
asl wrote:
You can't drop Kane: give him half a sniff of a chance and he'll stick it in the net - unlike Rashford and Sterling. Kane and Foden are the two genuinely world-class players in the squad. I fear for the defence (particularly if Maguire's fit) and Pickford is no Pope.

Better England squads than this one have gone out in the group stages.


Shame he didn’t stick it in the net in the WC semi final, when it was an easy chance, let alone a sniff!

So you'll drop our most likely goalscorer because of one missed chance three years ago?! :roll:


No, I would drop him for the reasons I said earlier in the thread, which are that I think he makes our play too one dimensional and predictable as it is focused on him and he increasingly has a habit of coming too deep looking for the ball.

Dropping Kane frees up our other attacking and more creative players to run riot and torment sides.

My comment on the missed chance was just pointing out a counter argument to someone who says we rely on him for his finishing.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 11:00 
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Harry Kane PL 20/21: most goals; most assists; most shots on target. Struggling to find an up-to-date conversion rate stat by player - but Spurs top that at team level. But let's argue about his finishing ability, eh...?

I take it that 1-in-a-hundred miss cost you a payout from the bookies...


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 11:14 
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asl wrote:
Harry Kane PL 20/21: most goals; most assists; most shots on target. Struggling to find an up-to-date conversion rate stat by player - but Spurs top that at team level. But let's argue about his finishing ability, eh...?

I take it that 1-in-a-hundred miss cost you a payout from the bookies...


Nope, didn’t bet on the match.

As I said, that was a throwaway comment. My reason for dropping Kane were not to do with his goal scoring record or finishing ability as described above.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 12:00 
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If the other players in midfield are performing, Kane won't drop deep. If Kane does drop deep, his assists stats tell you that he does well there. He is probably the best attacking passer of the ball in the England team, in my opinion. It is underrated but some of the balls he plays would have been masturbated over by the media for weeks if prime Messi played them.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 15:15 
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Shade wrote:
If the other players in midfield are performing, Kane won't drop deep. If Kane does drop deep, his assists stats tell you that he does well there. He is probably the best attacking passer of the ball in the England team, in my opinion. It is underrated but some of the balls he plays would have been masturbated over by the media for weeks if prime Messi played them.


So you are essentially saying the job of midfielders is just to pass the ball to Kane. That proves my point.

Him coming deep might not be because our midfielders are failing, but because the very best opposition can easily nullify a one dimensional and predictable tactic.

Sure, it works when winning nine or ten games every qualifying round and getting out the group. But in my opinion, to win the trophy a bit more chaotic flair is needed.

If a well drilled back line in the semi final or final see every England attack has Foden, Mount, Rashford and Sterling in different positions making different runs that is harder and more uncertain to defend against than knowing that Foden’s or Mount’s only instruction and role is to try and ping it to Kane in the box.

It is not a criticism of Kane whose stats clearly show he has been the top English striker in the Premier League for several years. I am just thinking of the overall team shape, balance and what is needed to win the trophy. The best TEAM does not always need the best INDIVIDUALS.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 17:18 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Shade wrote:
If the other players in midfield are performing, Kane won't drop deep. If Kane does drop deep, his assists stats tell you that he does well there. He is probably the best attacking passer of the ball in the England team, in my opinion. It is underrated but some of the balls he plays would have been masturbated over by the media for weeks if prime Messi played them.


So you are essentially saying the job of midfielders is just to pass the ball to Kane. That proves my point.

Him coming deep might not be because our midfielders are failing, but because the very best opposition can easily nullify a one dimensional and predictable tactic.

Sure, it works when winning nine or ten games every qualifying round and getting out the group. But in my opinion, to win the trophy a bit more chaotic flair is needed.

If a well drilled back line in the semi final or final see every England attack has Foden, Mount, Rashford and Sterling in different positions making different runs that is harder and more uncertain to defend against than knowing that Foden’s or Mount’s only instruction and role is to try and ping it to Kane in the box.

It is not a criticism of Kane whose stats clearly show he has been the top English striker in the Premier League for several years. I am just thinking of the overall team shape, balance and what is needed to win the trophy. The best TEAM does not always need the best INDIVIDUALS.


No, that is not essentially what I'm saying. Kane can't drop deep and pass to himself, can he...but he can drop deep and find one of the other forward running players. Especially if him coming deep drags a defender or two out of position for the others to run into.

As long as Sterling is nowhere near the starting line up I don't care who is, to be honest, but there is absolutely no way that any manager would leave Kane out of the starting line up.

Hope we don't have a slow start to the tournament due to the fact probably half the team won't have played a competitive game with each other for a few months.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021, 19:30 
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Well if Southgate is not brave enough to drop Kane, then it will have to be a case of being forced to if/when his ankle gives up. Hopefully we are still in the tournament if/when it does.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 19 Jun 2021, 15:08 
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Southgate had enough of Kane then last night.

Jonathan Liew’s piece in the Guardian summing up why I would not have started Kane in the first place:

“In striving to play his dual No 9/No 10 role while clearly not at his physical peak, Kane has somehow ended up playing neither. He slowed attacks down when he dropped deep. He was painfully off the pace when the ball was delivered into the penalty area. And for much of the interim periods he simply existed, like a faint outline of a former threat: a giant boar’s head mounted above the threshold in the hope that it might scare burglars.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... SApp_Other


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021, 06:58 
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Just had to pop on to say how delighted I am that the personal trauma suffered by the snowflake, witnessing someone being ill, only took 5 days to pass. Instead of 'maybe enjoying the latter stages of the tournament', he is back enjoying the group stages with full vigour! Not only that, but setting everyone straight on what s*^t they talk.

The same man who complained that someone's death had caused him to miss recording some of MOTD. You couldn't make it up.

Thank God he doesn't work in our hospitals, the poor darling would never me able to leave the house, what with seeing all those sick people.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 20 Jun 2021, 11:10 
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Ihearye wrote:
Just had to pop on to say how delighted I am that the personal trauma suffered by the snowflake, witnessing someone being ill, only took 5 days to pass. Instead of 'maybe enjoying the latter stages of the tournament', he is back enjoying the group stages with full vigour! Not only that, but setting everyone straight on what s*^t they talk.

The same man who complained that someone's death had caused him to miss recording some of MOTD. You couldn't make it up.

Thank God he doesn't work in our hospitals, the poor darling would never me able to leave the house, what with seeing all those sick people.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

How long has that rant been simmering for. Why don’t you have a summer off like the Northern Irish team are ;)


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 29 Jun 2021, 18:59 
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That felt good. Still a way to go but if England don't get to the final now then they have royally screwed up.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 29 Jun 2021, 20:55 
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Also was thinking maybe it's a good omen, given that we won the league, that there's a bit of the Cheltenham's about England. Solid in defence, struggle to score but come away with the win, lots of ball rentention whilst playing sideways and backwards, forwards that you shout at to do better for 90mins... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 06 Jul 2021, 22:08 
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In proper Papa John’s Trophy format, Italy win the Southern final today. Can England win the Northern final tomorrow?


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 07 Jul 2021, 22:57 
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Come on Italy.....bring me the money money money!


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 00:55 
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Malabus wrote:
Come on Italy.....bring me the money money money!

Get in the bin. It's coming home.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 06:59 
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England’s to lose now. I personally think the final will be easier than the semi-final.

This competition has been about the quality of defences, and it has been weak links in the defences of the likes of France and Netherlands are which have seen them fail.

After England, I think Denmark have the best first choice back like. Italy are decent, but I feel Kjaer and Christensen are faster and more mobile than Chiellini and Bonucci. This pace difference should mean we can break the Italian line more easily we did the Danish.

As an aside, our defensive strength in depth is mad. Chirwell and James would get in almost all other teams in the tournament and Mings and Trippier would strengthen a lot of the teams.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 10:22 
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The point has been made that we probably have the strongest bench of any team in the tournament. Players who can genuinely change the game and definitely not weaken the team for the sake of getting fresh legs on the pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 15:51 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
England’s to lose now. I personally think the final will be easier than the semi-final.

This competition has been about the quality of defences, and it has been weak links in the defences of the likes of France and Netherlands are which have seen them fail.

After England, I think Denmark have the best first choice back like. Italy are decent, but I feel Kjaer and Christensen are faster and more mobile than Chiellini and Bonucci. This pace difference should mean we can break the Italian line more easily we did the Danish.

As an aside, our defensive strength in depth is mad. Chirwell and James would get in almost all other teams in the tournament and Mings and Trippier would strengthen a lot of the teams.
Incorrect. Italy are the hardest team they’ll come across in this tournament.


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 Post subject: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 15:51 
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CTFCfan99 wrote:
Malabus wrote:
Come on Italy.....bring me the money money money!

Get in the bin. It's coming home.
A case of nearly coming home for sorry England.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 16:25 
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Malabus wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
England’s to lose now. I personally think the final will be easier than the semi-final.

This competition has been about the quality of defences, and it has been weak links in the defences of the likes of France and Netherlands are which have seen them fail.

After England, I think Denmark have the best first choice back like. Italy are decent, but I feel Kjaer and Christensen are faster and more mobile than Chiellini and Bonucci. This pace difference should mean we can break the Italian line more easily we did the Danish.

As an aside, our defensive strength in depth is mad. Chirwell and James would get in almost all other teams in the tournament and Mings and Trippier would strengthen a lot of the teams.
Incorrect. Italy are the hardest team they’ll come across in this tournament.


Last night was the true final. Chiellini, an absolute legend, sadly won’t last 90 mins…injury or red card whilst desperately not trying to be outpaced by England.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 19:15 
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i think the most relevant piece of analysis I heard was the change of tactics from the Ukraine game to Denmark.

Against Ukraine, it was all about crosses into the box. Against Denmark, the tactics were changed. They had 3 very tall defenders and so the Ukraine approach was not used. It was all about pace down the wings and to tire them out.

It really shows how good a coach Gareth Southgate is to change completely from one highly successful game to the next.

I am sure that weaknesses in the Italian defence will have been identified by GS and his team and the approach to the Italy game will be different to Ukraine and Denmark.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 20:47 
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Red Duke wrote:
i think the most relevant piece of analysis I heard was the change of tactics from the Ukraine game to Denmark.

Against Ukraine, it was all about crosses into the box. Against Denmark, the tactics were changed. They had 3 very tall defenders and so the Ukraine approach was not used. It was all about pace down the wings and to tire them out.

It really shows how good a coach Gareth Southgate is to change completely from one highly successful game to the next.

I am sure that weaknesses in the Italian defence will have been identified by GS and his team and the approach to the Italy game will be different to Ukraine and Denmark.


Spinazzola being injured is a real blessing for England. Emerson, who is stand in is not as good or as fast as Maehle of Denmark in my view. Spinazzola is so fast, and it was his absence which enabled Spain to get their stranglehold. Emerson does not offer that same pace.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 21:20 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Red Duke wrote:
i think the most relevant piece of analysis I heard was the change of tactics from the Ukraine game to Denmark.

Against Ukraine, it was all about crosses into the box. Against Denmark, the tactics were changed. They had 3 very tall defenders and so the Ukraine approach was not used. It was all about pace down the wings and to tire them out.

It really shows how good a coach Gareth Southgate is to change completely from one highly successful game to the next.

I am sure that weaknesses in the Italian defence will have been identified by GS and his team and the approach to the Italy game will be different to Ukraine and Denmark.


Spinazzola being injured is a real blessing for England. Emerson, who is stand in is not as good or as fast as Maehle of Denmark in my view. Spinazzola is so fast, and it was his absence which enabled Spain to get their stranglehold. Emerson does not offer that same pace.


GS must have identified Maehle as a major threat and nullified him. I can't say that I really noticed him on the night.

In the final, I would expect Sterling and Sako to expose Emerson's lack of comparative pace.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 08 Jul 2021, 21:26 
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Red Duke wrote:
i think the most relevant piece of analysis I heard was the change of tactics from the Ukraine game to Denmark.

Against Ukraine, it was all about crosses into the box. Against Denmark, the tactics were changed. They had 3 very tall defenders and so the Ukraine approach was not used. It was all about pace down the wings and to tire them out.

It really shows how good a coach Gareth Southgate is to change completely from one highly successful game to the next.

I am sure that weaknesses in the Italian defence will have been identified by GS and his team and the approach to the Italy game will be different to Ukraine and Denmark.


Spinazzola being injured is a real blessing for England. Emerson, who is stand in is not as good or as fast as Maehle of Denmark in my view. Spinazzola is so fast, and it was his absence which enabled Spain to get their stranglehold. Emerson does not offer that same pace.


What did Emerson do wrong against Spain...one of the best players on the pitch for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 09 Jul 2021, 06:52 
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Malabus wrote:
RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:
Red Duke wrote:
i think the most relevant piece of analysis I heard was the change of tactics from the Ukraine game to Denmark.

Against Ukraine, it was all about crosses into the box. Against Denmark, the tactics were changed. They had 3 very tall defenders and so the Ukraine approach was not used. It was all about pace down the wings and to tire them out.

It really shows how good a coach Gareth Southgate is to change completely from one highly successful game to the next.

I am sure that weaknesses in the Italian defence will have been identified by GS and his team and the approach to the Italy game will be different to Ukraine and Denmark.


Spinazzola being injured is a real blessing for England. Emerson, who is stand in is not as good or as fast as Maehle of Denmark in my view. Spinazzola is so fast, and it was his absence which enabled Spain to get their stranglehold. Emerson does not offer that same pace.


What did Emerson do wrong against Spain...one of the best players on the pitch for sure.


He did nothing wrong. I did not say he did anything wrong. All I said is that he is not as fast as Spinazzola or Maehle.

England have the best array of full backs in the competition. Spinazzola is, in my view, the only opposition full back who could have the upper hand over ours. Having seen Walker dominate Maehle I am confident he will do the same to Emerson. That is not Emerson doing anything wrong, it just is what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 11 Jul 2021, 19:14 
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As suggested in posts above, the Italian defence cannot cope with our pace and width. Easy.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROS 2020.
 Post Posted: 11 Jul 2021, 19:28 
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Italy will still win this by four goals.


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