I agree the 11 games without scoring at the start of the season doesn't wash with me anymore either.
Since then we have only gone goalless on 5 occasions (in the League), so currently 16 overall with 7 games left. Last season we failed to score in 19 games. I don't think we fail to score in more than 3 games in the rest of this season.
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I think you've answered your own question in the last sentence. If the penalty had been scored at Derby or Lloyds goal at Bolton been given, those games would have panned out completely differently. You can't just add or remove points and goals based on specific incidents and assume everything else would have stayed the same.Shade wrote: ↑05 Apr 2024, 11:25You say that, but if the penalty had been given and scored at Derby, Lloyd's onside goal at Bolton not ruled out, and at least one penalty given to us on Monday, we could be sat at least 5 points better off right now and feeling a lot more confident. Could very easily be the difference between staying up or not. Obviously, a million moments and decisions decide a season, not just several made by the officials, but they're the ones that stick out.Jerry St Clair wrote: ↑05 Apr 2024, 09:32
We aren't going to go down because of refereeing mistakes. We'll go down because didn't score a goal for nearly a quarter of the season.
Refs make mistakes. Sometimes very bad ones. We needed to respond by creating more chances and scoring more goals. If we hadn't imploded at the end of the first half against Reading we might have had more points. That was on us, not the referee. The list is endless.
The fundamentals are obvious: a relatively tiny budget compounded by summer chaos and tactical timidity under Wade. A couple of bad penalty shouts are minor impacts in that context.
The major difference being that the officials are there to apply the laws of the game correctly, not be the ones that make a difference to the results through their errors. The players DID create chances, and the officials denied them. The other stuff, that's a part of the game. Multiple blatant bad decisions against us that cost us points shouldn't be. That's my POV anyway. Am I wrong?
My issue is that some on this board would have you believe that it's corruption rather than simple human error that causes decisions to go against us - which, I'm sorry, is utter nonsense.
Are some officials at this level not very good at their job? Yes. Could the vast majority of keyboard warriors on here do a better job in real time, without the aid of slow-motion video replays? Almost certainly not.
Are some officials at this level not very good at their job? Yes. Could the vast majority of keyboard warriors on here do a better job in real time, without the aid of slow-motion video replays? Almost certainly not.
Potentially a bit naive? It would hardly be a world first for a ref to be bent. Not that I'm saying any of them are...I just wouldn't be massively surprised if something eventually came out about dodgy payments.
This government is bent, our national utilities are bent, local councils are bent, big business is bent. To think that professional sport (in this country) is not bent is very very naive.
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I don’t think you’re wrong. I just disagree. It’s an opinion.Shade wrote: ↑06 Apr 2024, 11:26 The major difference being that the officials are there to apply the laws of the game correctly, not be the ones that make a difference to the results through their errors. The players DID create chances, and the officials denied them. The other stuff, that's a part of the game. Multiple blatant bad decisions against us that cost us points shouldn't be. That's my POV anyway. Am I wrong?
In my view referee mistakes are part of the game, just as much as forwards missing open goals. Officials are not helped by endless tinkering by IFAB, but that’s another story altogether……
Thank God we haven't reached the depths of flogging off our council home and pocketing the proceeds ....... Oh wait
I didn't say it doesn't exist at all, even at our level - but I'd be willing to bet that at least 99% of all decisions that go against us, and ever have gone against us, are due to human error or interpretation rather than corruption.
Agree. Being a ref isn’t for the feint hearted! I’ve done one match for u10 and that was bad enoughasl wrote:I didn't say it doesn't exist at all, even at our level - but I'd be willing to bet that at least 99% of all decisions that go against us, and ever have gone against us, are due to human error or interpretation rather than corruption.
Sorry don't buy into this all honest mistakes, not for the feint hearted stance. They are paid very well to do a job approx 180 minutes a week. If they were employed in any other job, they wouldn't be allowed to make mistakes week after week. On top of that, they have three other well paid officials to help them make the decisions. Not saying they are bent just incompetent.
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Paid very well?Ihearye wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 16:50 Sorry don't buy into this all honest mistakes, not for the feint hearted stance. They are paid very well to do a job approx 180 minutes a week. If they were employed in any other job, they wouldn't be allowed to make mistakes week after week. On top of that, they have three other well paid officials to help them make the decisions. Not saying they are bent just incompetent.
Select group 2 refs (essentially Championship) are on an annual retainer (circa £20k) plus match fees (circa £500). League 1 and 2 refs don’t get retainers, but get match fees and expenses. Match fees for L1 are about £400.
Elite refs, such as Premier League and Fifa officials, might well earn something like £100k per year which is about the same as a head teacher of a large secondary school.
Not sure which job would be worse to be honest.
I reffed an u13 friendly yesterday and at times it felt like the Boca-River derby. That was a load of kids in front of about 20 parents and coaches who I get on really well with. Sod reffing in front of a few thousand people, most of whom think you're deliberately trying to diddle their team.
I reffed an u13 friendly yesterday and at times it felt like the Boca-River derby. That was a load of kids in front of about 20 parents and coaches who I get on really well with. Sod reffing in front of a few thousand people, most of whom think you're deliberately trying to diddle their team.
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Exactly. I manage my son’s team. Last autumn we played a tournament and at the end of one of the games the opposition coach went marching on to the pitch, arms outstretched exclaiming that the ref was “making the rules up as he went along”. This was U8s. The ref was a teenage boy. Unbelievable.Si Robin wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 18:20 Not sure which job would be worse to be honest.
I reffed an u13 friendly yesterday and at times it felt like the Boca-River derby. That was a load of kids in front of about 20 parents and coaches who I get on really well with. Sod reffing in front of a few thousand people, most of whom think you're deliberately trying to diddle their team.
The refs got £20 for giving up their Saturday and putting up with this s#!t.
Yes, would say that is quite a healthy second income, would also argue that the responsibilities of a secondary school head are much more important and stressful that a ref.Jerry St Clair wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 18:12Paid very well?Ihearye wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 16:50 Sorry don't buy into this all honest mistakes, not for the feint hearted stance. They are paid very well to do a job approx 180 minutes a week. If they were employed in any other job, they wouldn't be allowed to make mistakes week after week. On top of that, they have three other well paid officials to help them make the decisions. Not saying they are bent just incompetent.
Select group 2 refs (essentially Championship) are on an annual retainer (circa £20k) plus match fees (circa £500). League 1 and 2 refs don’t get retainers, but get match fees and expenses. Match fees for L1 are about £400.
Elite refs, such as Premier League and Fifa officials, might well earn something like £100k per year which is about the same as a head teacher of a large secondary school.
At the end of the day, if they find it to much of a burden to perform the job, then the answer is easy. Folk on here say they wouldn't do it. Exactly, that's why they are not doing it.
If I had the inclination I would trawl the internet to see if any league or national league match had ever been called off because they didn't have enough refs. If it ever has happened then it is a rate occurrence. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. Why would they all stop? They are doing something they CHOOSE to do for the remuneration they receive. If they didn't want to do it or thought it was not worthwhile, they would not do it. History tends to show us that there are always people who want to be paid to do this. So have no idea why you think all refs would give up.
What I said was easy, was, if you don't think it is worth it, then don't do it. How complicated is that?
The Robins Report CTFC
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NEW POD
This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1 and @bretonday5 to discuss:
- A dreadful week
- Support for the whole team
- @HerGameToo_CTFC vs Bristol Rovers
- Last chance saloon Vs Burton
UTT
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https://t.co/x3bYce192C
@Robins_Report
NEW POD
This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1 and @bretonday5 to discuss:
- A dreadful week
- Support for the whole team
- @HerGameToo_CTFC vs Bristol Rovers
- Last chance saloon Vs Burton
UTT
#ctfc
https://t.co/x3bYce192C
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Well said re jeering and targeting of individual players from fans and the need to support the team in the relegation battle rather than undermine it.
Apologies - forgot to post this one yesterday...
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- A WIN!
- Survival back on?
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UTT
#ctfc
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4caB9f ... 3oXHfN6dKQ
The Robins Report CTFC
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NEW POD
This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1 to discuss:
- A WIN!
- Survival back on?
- The time for inquests
- Play off chasing opponents
UTT
#ctfc
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4caB9f ... 3oXHfN6dKQ
The Robins Report CTFC
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5m
NEW POD
This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1, @bretonday5, @SimonGardiner84 and @DaveCohen_ to discuss:
The final week of the season!
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Y9372 ... eac1134a8f
I should point out, and Owen refers to it at the end of the episode, we have taken the executive decision to not discuss the forum last week or Murry Toms leaving the board. These will still be issues next week and we felt the on-pitch issues were more important this week!
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NEW POD
This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1, @bretonday5, @SimonGardiner84 and @DaveCohen_ to discuss:
The final week of the season!
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Y9372 ... eac1134a8f
I should point out, and Owen refers to it at the end of the episode, we have taken the executive decision to not discuss the forum last week or Murry Toms leaving the board. These will still be issues next week and we felt the on-pitch issues were more important this week!
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Very, very good call to defer discussion on Murry/the forum.
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UTT
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/0rp5XU ... UHxzLWmvdQ
This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1, @SimonGardiner84 and @waderCTFC to discuss:
- Relegation confirmed
- Where did it go wrong?
- Forum and board departures
- Retained list reviewed
UTT
#ctfc
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0rp5XU ... UHxzLWmvdQ
The Robins Report CTFC
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/0ZIMzy ... 14bb4347f2
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This week, @OwenCTFC_ is joined by @MarkHalliwell1, @SimonGardiner84 & @YoungyJames, @jaimiewh & Jenny from the
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UTT
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https://open.spotify.com/episode/0ZIMzy ... 14bb4347f2
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A fascinating, compelling pod. Well done to everyone involved - you guys for the well-thought through questions and the ensuing discussion.
Have a listen if you haven't. This gets to the heart of the essence of our football club.
Have a listen if you haven't. This gets to the heart of the essence of our football club.
Just listening in to this now, don't know who is speaking from the trust but they are doing a tremendous job and mirroring a lot of my thoughts about what is wrong. We have well intentioned amateurs running the board and it leads to a resource bottleneck so we miss out on multiple revenue streams.
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The insulting use of "amateur" and a couple of unproven, unresearched cliches from you Robin does not "mirror" the more respectful and balanced discussions I am hearing and reading. Please expand what is the "resource bottleneck"?
Listen to the podcast it's clear the leaders of the trust see exactly what I do. You have people running the club who although well intentioned are not employees and don't have the time to look into everything so we miss out on things.horlickfanclub wrote: ↑15 May 2024, 14:18 The insulting use of "amateur" and a couple of unproven, unresearched cliches from you Robin does not "mirror" the more respectful and balanced discussions I am hearing and reading. Please expand what is the "resource bottleneck"?
Resource is an issue throughout the club as a whole. I mentioned it after recording the pod, but I haven't been able to renew 8 season tickets yet because I want to make changes to three of them. Annoyingly, the only person who can apparently sort it is on holiday until Monday next week.horlickfanclub wrote: ↑15 May 2024, 14:18 The insulting use of "amateur" and a couple of unproven, unresearched cliches from you Robin does not "mirror" the more respectful and balanced discussions I am hearing and reading. Please expand what is the "resource bottleneck"?
Now, everyone is entitled to a holiday, of course they are, and the two people I've spoken to about the changes were as helpful as they could be. I will speak to the guy on Monday and I'm sure the matter will be resolved fully 13 days before the early bird deadline.
However, what if I was a new fan and not someone who is not aware of the limitations at the club? I might well think sod it and take my money elsewhere. That someone can go on holiday (again - I stress I do not blame the individual for going on holiday at all) and an issue like this be left to be resolved some two weeks after it was first raised looks extremely unprofessional. And this is what is meant by the lack of capacity that James refers to over and over again.
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Another superb and really insightful pod. Felt really buoyed by the ideas and positivity of the trust, not so much the response they’ve had from the Board though!
Hopefully this will change and they can work together more starting this summer because to me, it feels as though the board (as a collective) don’t or certainly haven’t in the past, given full respect to the Trust. None more so was this the case than with the SLO experience last year.
Hopefully this will change and they can work together more starting this summer because to me, it feels as though the board (as a collective) don’t or certainly haven’t in the past, given full respect to the Trust. None more so was this the case than with the SLO experience last year.