TONIGHT: 2023/24 Club Annual Shareholders Meeting and Fans’ Forum

[Si Robin]

It's in Paperboy's post three above yours.

[longmover]

Also in events hosted by the club that include the chairman, board members and the first team manager can they not do any better than having them sat behind a sad looking table, where's the marketing hoardings that display the club crest (that cover the whole table), various sponsors of the club, where's the marketing banners that show the ticket office, club and club shop website address, a little promo sentence regarding the game on Saturday.

We get one camera angle (which I presume was a phone) where the host obscured the view, other bar users being told to be quiet as participates are talking and a dog barking (maybe a guide dog?) in the background. All the time DC going on about 'standards', last nights effort was what I would expect from a decent county sides AGM not a team playing two division below the premier league.

Where's the pride in how this club are presented? I remember watching one of these when Arron Downes was sat in front of a skittles scoreboard with the scores still on and thought this is embarrassing, nothing has changed since then (about six seasons ago).

[Horteng]

Also in events hosted by the club that include the chairman, board members and the first team manager can they not do any better than having them sat behind a sad looking table, where's the marketing hoardings that display the club crest (that cover the whole table), various sponsors of the club, where's the marketing banners that show the ticket office, club and club shop website address, a little promo sentence regarding the game on Saturday.

We get one camera angle (which I presume was a phone) where the host obscured the view, other bar users being told to be quiet as participates are talking and a dog barking (maybe a guide dog?) in the background. All the time DC going on about 'standards', last nights effort was what I would expect from a decent county sides AGM not a team playing two division below the premier league.

Where's the pride in how this club are presented? I remember watching one of these when Arron Downes was sat in front of a skittles scoreboard with the scores still on and thought this is embarrassing, nothing has changed since then (about six seasons ago).

Good point re advertising boards. The sponsors would probably be disappointed not to see their brand being displayed.

And yes the fact Tom stood in front of the camera for most of the night was poor. Surely he knew where the camera was so should of had the nous not to stand in front of it?!

[Warwickshire Robin]

We really do find ourselves in a very confusing situation at CTFC don’t we?! We are in historic times for our club on the pitch and yet seem to be on the verge of crisis off it.

I think the frustration for me is around the seeming lack of any plan to take the club forward. Whatever that plan might be doesn’t matter too much to me as long as there is one.

We know and understand the playing budget is one of the lowest in the EFL and that the ground and training ground both need investment of some sort to stop them becoming unfit for purpose, so how do we finance improvements? Do we improve the Academy so that we produce more home grown talent to sell on to the detriment to the first team in the at least three to five years that it may take to start seeing the fruition of that? They are huge questions and ones we don’t seem to be anywhere near answering. Also, I fear we may be missing a big chance anyway, as surely the time to attract the additional investment was when were at the top of our achievements, not when we are on the cusp of going back to League 2?

Anyway, from comments last night it is beginning to look worryingly like another summer of upheaval is in store and if, heaven forbid, Darrell walks away then get the tin hats ready!

[Shade]

Also in events hosted by the club that include the chairman, board members and the first team manager can they not do any better than having them sat behind a sad looking table, where's the marketing hoardings that display the club crest (that cover the whole table), various sponsors of the club, where's the marketing banners that show the ticket office, club and club shop website address, a little promo sentence regarding the game on Saturday.

We get one camera angle (which I presume was a phone) where the host obscured the view, other bar users being told to be quiet as participates are talking and a dog barking (maybe a guide dog?) in the background. All the time DC going on about 'standards', last nights effort was what I would expect from a decent county sides AGM not a team playing two division below the premier league.

Where's the pride in how this club are presented? I remember watching one of these when Arron Downes was sat in front of a skittles scoreboard with the scores still on and thought this is embarrassing, nothing has changed since then (about six seasons ago).

The presentation of the club in general is abysmal, pretty much everywhere except social media these days. I mentioned in a match day thread last week that at half time there was basically nothing going on. Tuesday nights especially are just basically "put the game on, that'll do" but even last Saturday the half-time period was terrible. The kids doing the crossbar challenge got a mention half way through it and then forgotten about as an interview took place with some people that I'm sure 75% of the ground couldn't hear very well. There wasn't even any music on until the last few minutes after Jim Haggin's sporadic announcements had finished. I can never see him but does he get distracted by people? Can he not just read them all out in one go and then whack the music on? Not criticising him, just wondering why it's done that way.

I've seen other posts online recently as well criticising the lack of anything going on in the ground before and at half time to try and get the crowd going at such a crucial period of the season. It really is like the manager and fans are singing from a different hymn sheet. Not everything costs money but, from my POV, the board don't seem to be willing to entertain suggestions for cheap ways to improve. As has been said for years, there are people willing to volunteer for things, but the board shut them out/ignore them and, as time goes by, it does increasingly feel like a bit of an old boys club, they don't want anyone in there rocking the boat or presenting ideas that might prove that they're not doing everything they can. They even say they want "the right person" if they come in with money to invest. I suspect that means someone who will play along with them, rather than they don't want charlatans...

I wasn't on board with the idea of a CEO but it's clear one would improve on a lot of things. But it's also clear it will never happen with the current board/financials.

However, I will finish this with recognition that the board do a good job of keeping us afloat and in a better position than a) we should have been in recent seasons and b) a lot of other clubs with far, far bigger budgets than we have.

[Jim]

I'm a bit confused with the backlash against selling players to breakeven or make a profit.

Its not luck to sell a player but a clear part of the club's business plan. We develop and improve players, give them experience with the aim to make a profit on them. At L1 level, with average attendances around the 5k mark, how else do we clean our face?

Like any business, you can't guarantee anyone will buy your 'product', but you can work to develop assets.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I'm a bit confused with the backlash against selling players to breakeven or make a profit.

Its not luck to sell a player but a clear part of the club's business plan. We develop and improve players, give them experience with the aim to make a profit on them. At L1 level, with average attendances around the 5k mark, how else do we clean our face?

Like any business, you can't guarantee anyone will buy your 'product', but you can work to develop assets.

I think it is more a backlash against the fact that on the one hand the club are saying, quite rightly, they allow for no cup prize money as it is not guaranteed but do allow for selling £400-500k's worth of players in order to break even as surely this is as unknown as the prize money?

Also, lets face it, of the nine players we have currently contracted for next season, which of those is going to be bought from us for that sort of money to balance next seasons budget?

[asl]

Lloyd (apparently) and, imho, Freestone. Both assets we could get money for.

I assume both those are contracted for next year? Not checked.

[Warwickshire Robin]

Lloyd (apparently) and, imho, Freestone. Both assets we could get money for.

I assume both those are contracted for next year? Not checked.

Freestone is, but Lloyd isn't I believe?

[Si Robin]

Lloyd is out of contract in the summer.

The contracted players are:

2025
Max Harris
Lewis Freestone
Elliott Bonds
Liam Kinsella
Aidan Keena

2026
Rob Street
Tom King
Matt Taylor
Jordan Thomas

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

.

[Robin]

I know people want us to be better, that's good and natural, of course I'd love us to be in the premier league. But for fans to ignore reality to such an extent puts the board and chairman in an impossible position. They could pave the cycle shelters in gold and some people still wouldn't be happy.

This is the point. We're a club that is plying it's trade above its station. I'm not saying we should be grateful to be in League 1, but with the resources we have at our disposal it is nothing short of miraculous that we are.

I don't buy into Robin's comment that a new stand automatically increases the home attendance by 1,000. Whilst better facilities may help, it's no good having a new stand and then struggling at the bottom of League 2. Andgarod is right in that in the past 25 years we've increased our average home support by over 4 times what it was. And even if it does increase our home support by 1,000, that is still way down on other clubs that are supposedly our size.

I'm far from advocating that we stand still, but there seems to be a s#!t or bust mentality sometimes and, to be frank, we are actually somewhere in the middle.

The level of increase is debatable I would admit that but there would almost certainly be a noticeable increase in attendances. Our own Finance director stated last night that seats sell out for 50% of of our games at this level, away seats are sold out about a third of the time (my estimate). Any new stand means we address both of those core challenges. I would say a pessimistic outlook would be a 500 increase (home and away) and average crowds around 5000, and optimistic view maybe gates go up to 6000 and we are comparable with Cambridge, Northampton, Shrewsbury and Exeter which feels a realistic long term target for a club like ourselves at this level.

[Ihearye]

It's in Paperboy's post three above yours.

Ta

[Robin]

I'm a bit confused with the backlash against selling players to breakeven or make a profit.

Its not luck to sell a player but a clear part of the club's business plan. We develop and improve players, give them experience with the aim to make a profit on them. At L1 level, with average attendances around the 5k mark, how else do we clean our face?

Like any business, you can't guarantee anyone will buy your 'product', but you can work to develop assets.

Nobody is against this concept and it was clearly something Micky Moore brought in as Director of Football (one year on and he's still not been replaced). But we need to get the balance right as the gaffer said last night we need experience around them and we need good training facilities to develop them with the right coaching staff. It's not just a case of signing young players and them naturally coming good most will not. I also felt some of the fans were saying we can't just rely upon selling players to make money the board need to get off their ass and do more to bring that in.

[andgarod]

can I suggest that both RCS and Robin are coopted on to the board or at least put their thoughts etc in writing to the board and cc the trust

I dont know if either are shareholders if not buy a couple of hundred about £200 or get them cheap from Mr Baker

Just on the seats selling out
I accept that once the Hazelwood +/- blocks 7 and 8 are sold out to away supporters do you think that some away supporters migh buy in the home areas
Not so likely in lge 2

[paperboy]

Well the meeting is still on You Tube here.

https://www.youtube.com/live/eKrbu733cs ... 6AwIob6Tl7

My main take was that the major shareholders would be open to selling their stakes to the right people, but not to putting the 12 million quid in that some think they should.

Good to hear Dave Bloxham getting irritated by some who seemed unable to swallow the dose of reality that they were given.

Personally I'd be more worried if the likes of Clive Gowing decided to call it a day and revert to just being the avid fan he's always been.

I don’t think anyone has said the owners should put in £12m.

Everyone knows the club can’t afford to build a new stand development off its own back any time soon.

Everyone also knows we need to build a new stand development soon.

That’s where the plan is needed. Is a new stand a formal objective of the Board and what date target have they set?

What is the strategy for finding a way to meet that target? Have the Board identified institutional or public sector property /infrastructure investors to contact? Have they appointed advisory services to find an investor? Which Board members are calling and presenting to who? Have the Board commissioned an outline masterplan for the whole of the site and presented it to the Council or the University or whoever? What are the performance measures to assess progress over the next month, or six months, or year etc?

This is the type of plan people are asking for. We all know it is going to very hard to build a new stand, but fans just want to see that efforts are being made.

Some one referred to as Mark asked if the major shareholders had been approached regarding helping us with the new stand.
32 to 37 minutes in.

[Si Robin]

That was Mark Halliwell.

Approaching for help is not the same as asking them to stump up the full amount.

[Jim]

I'm a bit confused with the backlash against selling players to breakeven or make a profit.

Its not luck to sell a player but a clear part of the club's business plan. We develop and improve players, give them experience with the aim to make a profit on them. At L1 level, with average attendances around the 5k mark, how else do we clean our face?

Like any business, you can't guarantee anyone will buy your 'product', but you can work to develop assets.

Nobody is against this concept and it was clearly something Micky Moore brought in as Director of Football (one year on and he's still not been replaced). But we need to get the balance right as the gaffer said last night we need experience around them and we need good training facilities to develop them with the right coaching staff. It's not just a case of signing young players and them naturally coming good most will not. I also felt some of the fans were saying we can't just rely upon selling players to make money the board need to get off their ass and do more to bring that in.

I totally agree the club need to do more to increase revenue, but I don't agree that selling players is luck or down to the footballing gods.

Obviously better facilities would help in that. But we shouldn't be hoping they magically come good. A lot of work goes into identifying prospects that could develop and then coaching and developing them to a point where a club further up the chain wants to take a 6 figure punt on them. It's the result of a plan, not just random chance.

To answer another point, we could realistically get money for Freestone, Bonds (less than this time last season), King and maybe even Thomas. A good 6 months and Street could easily 'do a Goodwin'. I think we even get some compo if/when Ferry leaves.

[Henry The Dog]

All businesses have a plan or a vision whether that be short, medium or long or all three. What came across was we appear to have no plan. How can you attract investment otherwise. I’m sure the Chairman’s heart is in the right place and best intentions but getting stroppy when challenged with a fair question certainly meant he went down in my estimation. I know we can’t magic £12m but in three years time that might mean we need £15m.
What also concerned me was DC’s response when asked about next year, looks far from certain he’d continue so we might be looking for a new manager and assistant.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

.

[Si Robin]

Simon's brother - Chips - passed away today (or yesterday, the tribute on Arsenal's website was this morning).

[ctfc-fan]

I don’t think anyone has said the owners should put in £12m.

Everyone knows the club can’t afford to build a new stand development off its own back any time soon.

Everyone also knows we need to build a new stand development soon.

That’s where the plan is needed. Is a new stand a formal objective of the Board and what date target have they set?

What is the strategy for finding a way to meet that target? Have the Board identified institutional or public sector property /infrastructure investors to contact? Have they appointed advisory services to find an investor? Which Board members are calling and presenting to who? Have the Board commissioned an outline masterplan for the whole of the site and presented it to the Council or the University or whoever? What are the performance measures to assess progress over the next month, or six months, or year etc?

This is the type of plan people are asking for. We all know it is going to very hard to build a new stand, but fans just want to see that efforts are being made.

Some one referred to as Mark asked if the major shareholders had been approached regarding helping us with the new stand.
32 to 37 minutes in.

Yes. Help could mean anything. The Keswick family are well connected, so they could broker an introduction to a potential developer for the Club and Council if the Club developed a masterplan proposition, for example.

For example, the Keswick family firm (Jardines) owns 50% of the company Hongkong Land, which is developing central Singapore in a joint venture and has done a lot in Hong Kong where Jardines is based. Has the Board asked if they can introduce the Club and Council to any potential developers or institutional investors?

Not a good place to be doing property business currently though….

[Jerry St Clair]

I've been reflecting on last night.

It seems clear to me that DB is very focussed on player development and selling. That is possibly rooted in his day job as an employment lawyer so he has a natural bias towards talent development. He doesn't seem to have much appetite for any other form of growth.

I've no idea if other Board members feel the same. Have they discussed a business plan? Has it been considered and discarded? I'd love an explanation on this.

Just had a quick Google and in one minute found that Exeter City, who are a club we should aspire to, have a five year strategy and an integrated business plan.

[Robin]

can I suggest that both RCS and Robin are coopted on to the board or at least put their thoughts etc in writing to the board and cc the trust

I dont know if either are shareholders if not buy a couple of hundred about £200 or get them cheap from Mr Baker

Just on the seats selling out
I accept that once the Hazelwood +/- blocks 7 and 8 are sold out to away supporters do you think that some away supporters migh buy in the home areas
Not so likely in lge 2

For sure occasionally a few dozen away fans come in the home areas but we also sell out when the away end isn't so that argument balances out. We also sell out when the away end isn't full.

And yes I have some shares, would potentially buy a few more too but the fact so many fans have to give constructive feedback and some (including the board) are tone deaf is just worrying to me.

[asl]

Simon's brother - Chips - passed away today (or yesterday, the tribute on Arsenal's website was this morning).

I saw that announcement on the BBC and wondered about the coincidence of names - thanks for confirming.

[Fuller]

Talking of managers, owners and facilities, Carlisle moving forward.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68857210

[Ihearye]

I'm a bit confused with the backlash against selling players to breakeven or make a profit.

Its not luck to sell a player but a clear part of the club's business plan. We develop and improve players, give them experience with the aim to make a profit on them. At L1 level, with average attendances around the 5k mark, how else do we clean our face?

Like any business, you can't guarantee anyone will buy your 'product', but you can work to develop assets.

I would question how you could build a Business plan that is to a certain extent based on your ability to develop and sell players. It is a laudable goal to have, but surely it is partly based on luck? I am struggling to understand how you can depend on spotting an unearthed talent, persuade them to sign for CTFC, fend off other suitors, keep them injury free (to an extent), stop them screwing us over once they start attracting interest and selling them so the timing of their departure does not significantly damage the team.
As you say, you can't guarantee a sale, but that may be because you acquired the wrong assets that could not be developed to the point where they could demand the required transfer fee. If DC is saying he needs to see a plan, he is obviously not viewing the goal of selling enough players to keep afloat, constitutes the kind of plan he needs to see.
I presume other managers would have a similar view. He has pointed out some things that need to be done to help develop players and from what we hear, there is not a plan to provide this?

[Horteng]

Bizarre that JP has no reporting/ comment on last nights car crash

[London Exile]

Regarding further investment, whilst none of us know what approaches the club may have received in recent times what might not help is seeing how previous directors have ended up leaving in a short space of time. Richard Lewis and Andy Wilcox started as sponsors before becoming Directors and both are no longer part of the board. Neither were at the club particularly long before departing and in Richard Lewis case, being ‘removed’ as reported in the media isn’t a ringing endorsement for involvement!

Personally I think the board have done good job and whilst I’ve question marks over how we become a stable L1 club, I certainly don’t want to see anyone step down or leave.
These guys have lives and roles outside of CTFC so the football club must weigh heavily on those other, primary commitments so why not look for extra help? That’s the thing I’m most confused about, the board are struggling to take us on to the next level, we know why and accept why, so why not ask for greater help from supporters?
Would there be anything wrong in having Directors form some small working groups concentrating on their areas of responsibility?
As an example, I’m led to believe Paul Bence heads up the commercial so why not put out a call to arms for help from supporters in driving this? Are there supporters out there in business that can introduce Paul & CTFC to potential sponsors?
On the ground ‘development’ side of things, are there supporters willing to help paint, clean and carry out DIY work in the close season?
Are the supporters in the Electrical & Plumbing merchants that can help with materials such as LED lighting?
Maybe, as I think Si Robin commented, it’s more a communication issue, but if the board came out and said this is what we want to do, it’s a start plus it puts the onus back on us as supporters. If anything it would be a clear public show that they’re trying something so if the uptake was low, that would be on us and not them.

[Jerry St Clair]

I would question how you could build a Business plan that is to a certain extent based on your ability to develop and sell players. It is a laudable goal to have, but surely it is partly based on luck? I am struggling to understand how you can depend on spotting an unearthed talent, persuade them to sign for CTFC, fend off other suitors, keep them injury free (to an extent), stop them screwing us over once they start attracting interest and selling them so the timing of their departure does not significantly damage the team.

If our strategy is to unearth talent then a business plan might be something like:

- develop a regional scouting network and reporting structure to identify talent in the local/regional youth football network.
- create partnerships with local non-league clubs as pipelines for talent
- invest £x in coaches and facilities with the aim of achieving cat 2 academy status in the next three years

This won't guarantee success. I agree there are unknowns and luck. But having a clear plan can maximise your chances of achieving your objectives.

In fairness, Mickey Moore said he did a lot to link the academy and first team up. But that seems to have been on his own initiative rather than part of a wider strategy. Who is nurturing that link now we don't have a DoF?
-

[Uppy]

Agree with the logic of being a selling club. We always will be. Having to hope you sell your best player every year in order to be sustainable is a tough one though and understand why the manager is apprehensive.

[longmover]

according to our more ‘radical’ fanbase on the socials there could be some anti Bloxham sentiment today, probably not the best idea to have a ‘prickly’ fans forum a few days before a vital few fixtures.

could get a bit nasty if we lose.

[Jerry St Clair]

according to our more ‘radical’ fanbase on the socials there could be some anti Bloxham sentiment today, probably not the best idea to have a ‘prickly’ fans forum a few days before a vital few fixtures.

could get a bit nasty if we lose.

Noisy anti-Bloxham chants from Block 1. Some of them also gather by the car park briefly afterwards. Thought it might get a bit fraught with jubilant Lincoln fans starting to leave, but they soon moved on.

[Robin]

Tuesday could get quite interesting if the worst happens there are going to be a lot of angry fans and it's clear the chairman is now centre of attention. I wonder if he will show his face at all.

[Ihearye]

I would question how you could build a Business plan that is to a certain extent based on your ability to develop and sell players. It is a laudable goal to have, but surely it is partly based on luck? I am struggling to understand how you can depend on spotting an unearthed talent, persuade them to sign for CTFC, fend off other suitors, keep them injury free (to an extent), stop them screwing us over once they start attracting interest and selling them so the timing of their departure does not significantly damage the team.

If our strategy is to unearth talent then a business plan might be something like:

- develop a regional scouting network and reporting structure to identify talent in the local/regional youth football network.
- create partnerships with local non-league clubs as pipelines for talent
- invest £x in coaches and facilities with the aim of achieving cat 2 academy status in the next three years

This won't guarantee success. I agree there are unknowns and luck. But having a clear plan can maximise your chances of achieving your objectives.

In fairness, Mickey Moore said he did a lot to link the academy and first team up. But that seems to have been on his own initiative rather than part of a wider strategy. Who is nurturing that link now we don't have a DoF?
-

Agree it could be seen as s strategy, and they could have a vision as to how they look to achieve it. We both agree there is an element of unknown and luck. Neither of which should find a place in a business plan. Imo