Duff
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I'm all for Flynn going but the realistic candidates to replace him are now becoming extremely slim. We cannot go down the route of an untried manager and probably need someone who is a winner and can organise sides that leaves only 2-3 names that I can think of and both the first two are abbrasive and won't be the fans choices.
The only success we have had since GJ was with an untried manager. Our second ever highest league finish was with an untried manager (granted, it turned to s#!t shortly after). The list of tried and tested managers who have not been good at Cheltenham in the Football League:Robin wrote: ↑18 Sep 2025, 12:43 I'm all for Flynn going but the realistic candidates to replace him are now becoming extremely slim. We cannot go down the route of an untried manager and probably need someone who is a winner and can organise sides that leaves only 2-3 names that I can think of and both the first two are abbrasive and won't be the fans choices.
- Bobby Gould
- Martin Allen
- Paul Buckle
- Gary Johnson
- Michael Flynn
- some arguments for Daryl Clarke, given we ended up relegated when it looked at one point like we might be ok
Managers who hadn't managed another club in the Football League who were pretty decent, or certainly no worse than those mentioned above:
- Mark Yates
- Michael Duff
- Keith Downing
- Wade Elliott (first season...he and Clarke probably balance each other out)
My point being, I wouldn't trust a so-called more experienced manager over an inexperienced one - we've had far more c!#p experienced managers than inexperienced ones.
Darrell Clarke undoubtedly failed - he would admit that himself, but he did so successfully (if that makes sense).
Steve Cotterill was another untried manager, he'd had time managing Sligo, but not much and not in England.
John Ward, of course, was a very successful manager in the Football League for Cheltenham and had previously had success coaching in the Football League.
I'd say Downing and Elliott fit in the same boat as managers who were better as assistants, had initial success (Downing keeping us up against the odds, and Elliott 's first season) before falling to bits after a summer rebuild.
Steve Cotterill was another untried manager, he'd had time managing Sligo, but not much and not in England.
John Ward, of course, was a very successful manager in the Football League for Cheltenham and had previously had success coaching in the Football League.
I'd say Downing and Elliott fit in the same boat as managers who were better as assistants, had initial success (Downing keeping us up against the odds, and Elliott 's first season) before falling to bits after a summer rebuild.
Yeah I should have put Cotts on the list considering I put GJ on the bad list despite the NL triumph.
In which case, of all the managers we have had come in with experience of managing other Football League clubs, only John Ward has done a good job. I don't think any experienced manager has come in with a brief to stop us being relegated and succeeded (Gould, Allen, Johnson [tbf, he was on a hiding to nothing]). However, inexperienced managers have, in Yates and Duff.
In which case, of all the managers we have had come in with experience of managing other Football League clubs, only John Ward has done a good job. I don't think any experienced manager has come in with a brief to stop us being relegated and succeeded (Gould, Allen, Johnson [tbf, he was on a hiding to nothing]). However, inexperienced managers have, in Yates and Duff.
So just to clarify, and not to intentionally put you on the spot, you are both suggesting we could down the route of an untried manager? That feels super risky given the vast majority of first time managers who are good coaches fail.
I was thinking we might look at Derek Adams or Steve Evans, not because I want either of them but because they are a safe pair of hands and get teams organised and will very likely stabilise us. The other name I could see being in the mix is Matt Taylor, our former captain but he's been bombed out of his past two clubs quickly so that would be one hell of a gamble.
I was thinking we might look at Derek Adams or Steve Evans, not because I want either of them but because they are a safe pair of hands and get teams organised and will very likely stabilise us. The other name I could see being in the mix is Matt Taylor, our former captain but he's been bombed out of his past two clubs quickly so that would be one hell of a gamble.
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horlickfanclub
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- Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 11:02
I'd rather have a coach from Cheltenham Junior League than Evans. Adams has burnt many bridges .All pie in the sky though as there is no vacancy. (Today)
I'm not suggesting it - I'm saying it, and the argument why is above. Experienced managers don't necessarily mean better managers. It almost certainly means they have failed at least once elsewhere and been sacked. In our position, it's the same as with players; we're not going to get good ones unless they're largely untested, young, hungry, and looking to get themselves up the leagues, or we get lucky gambling with an older one who is looking for one last hurrah.
We haven't played 10 games of the season yet. Duff came in around this time in September and didn't win for the next 10 games and we were more than comfortable at the end of the season, so there is plenty of time yet if things weren't to work out. Anyway, we still have a manager at the moment so this debate is a little moot.
I'd rather be relegated than have Steve Evans anywhere near here. I'd rather Gary Johnson come back as manager. I'd rather have Downes as temporary head coach for the rest of the season. I'd rather be an FGR supporter. I'd rather be a Gloucester City supporter!
Derek Adams, no thanks. Matt Taylor I wouldn't be wholly against but I wouldn't have huge faith either.
We haven't played 10 games of the season yet. Duff came in around this time in September and didn't win for the next 10 games and we were more than comfortable at the end of the season, so there is plenty of time yet if things weren't to work out. Anyway, we still have a manager at the moment so this debate is a little moot.
I'd rather be relegated than have Steve Evans anywhere near here. I'd rather Gary Johnson come back as manager. I'd rather have Downes as temporary head coach for the rest of the season. I'd rather be an FGR supporter. I'd rather be a Gloucester City supporter!
Derek Adams, no thanks. Matt Taylor I wouldn't be wholly against but I wouldn't have huge faith either.
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horlickfanclub
- Posts: 4532
- Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 11:02
Two fine posts Shade. Summed up with evidence .Shade wrote: ↑18 Sep 2025, 16:35 I'm not suggesting it - I'm saying it, and the argument why is above. Experienced managers don't necessarily mean better managers. It almost certainly means they have failed at least once elsewhere and been sacked. In our position, it's the same as with players; we're not going to get good ones unless they're largely untested, young, hungry, and looking to get themselves up the leagues, or we get lucky gambling with an older one who is looking for one last hurrah.
We haven't played 10 games of the season yet. Duff came in around this time in September and didn't win for the next 10 games and we were more than comfortable at the end of the season, so there is plenty of time yet if things weren't to work out. Anyway, we still have a manager at the moment so this debate is a little moot.
I'd rather be relegated than have Steve Evans anywhere near here. I'd rather Gary Johnson come back as manager. I'd rather have Downes as temporary head coach for the rest of the season. I'd rather be an FGR supporter. I'd rather be a Gloucester City supporter!
Derek Adams, no thanks. Matt Taylor I wouldn't be wholly against but I wouldn't have huge faith either.
He wouldn't be a bad shout Robin.
Did very well at Exeter, but I fear it needs a magician given the hard working but toothless squad we currently have.
They need to conjure up a striker from somewhere or we'll just slowly sink.
Many will disagree but I think Flynny is getting as much out of the squad as is possible.....but it's not enough.
I've not suggested anything, simply adding to Shade's post.Robin wrote: ↑18 Sep 2025, 16:06 So just to clarify, and not to intentionally put you on the spot, you are both suggesting we could down the route of an untried manager? That feels super risky given the vast majority of first time managers who are good coaches fail.
I was thinking we might look at Derek Adams or Steve Evans, not because I want either of them but because they are a safe pair of hands and get teams organised and will very likely stabilise us. The other name I could see being in the mix is Matt Taylor, our former captain but he's been bombed out of his past two clubs quickly so that would be one hell of a gamble.
I wouldn't rule out an untried head coach though - the likes of Martin Devaney who was extremely well thought of at Barnsley.
Steve Evans? We already pay a load of cash for terrible football, so it won't be that different - although it might be like Cloughie going to Leeds as he'll rub everyone up the wrong way. Disco is first team coach at Vale alongside his mate Darren Moore, and Simon Grayson is at Hartlepool with MF's mentor Lennie Lawrence so I don't think they'd go anywhere. Although Grayson has managed in Nepal and India recently, so you never know
What's Wade up to nowadays...MG can give him a good DoF and assistant manager and we could go shooting up the league!
I will borrow them after ASL is finished with them
I'm not a fan of Evans either but his track record is one of success at multiple clubs, he's divisive and a nasty person on the touchline but he gets results at almost all clubs he goes too so we cannot turn our noses up. Devaney has applied before but again I just don't think we can afford to gamble.RS1978 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025, 00:52Steve Evans? We already pay a load of cash for terrible football, so it won't be that different - although it might be like Cloughie going to Leeds as he'll rub everyone up the wrong way. Disco is first team coach at Vale alongside his mate Darren Moore, and Simon Grayson is at Hartlepool with MF's mentor Lennie Lawrence so I don't think they'd go anywhere. Although Grayson has managed in Nepal and India recently, so you never know
What's Wade up to nowadays...MG can give him a good DoF and assistant manager and we could go shooting up the league!
So here is the list of realistic names I would see being in the mix:
1. Matt Taylor
2. Steve Evans
3. Derek Adams
4. Martin Devaney
5. Leam Richardson (based up North so I'm not convinced)
6. Garry Monk
7. Omar Riza
8. Paul Hirst (based largely up north but might not be as crazy as it sounds)
That list is pretty depressing from my vantage point.
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Jerry St Clair
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Wade is doing some part-time scouting for Southampton, but is mostly spending his time as a full-time dad. He’s loving it by all accounts and frankly, i couldnt be happier for him.
So you admit that's a depressing list, but you'd rather one of them over a manager who has maybe done well in the NL or is coming from a top academy job like a Mike Duff or Rob Jones?Robin wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025, 06:58I'm not a fan of Evans either but his track record is one of success at multiple clubs, he's divisive and a nasty person on the touchline but he gets results at almost all clubs he goes too so we cannot turn our noses up. Devaney has applied before but again I just don't think we can afford to gamble.RS1978 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025, 00:52Steve Evans? We already pay a load of cash for terrible football, so it won't be that different - although it might be like Cloughie going to Leeds as he'll rub everyone up the wrong way. Disco is first team coach at Vale alongside his mate Darren Moore, and Simon Grayson is at Hartlepool with MF's mentor Lennie Lawrence so I don't think they'd go anywhere. Although Grayson has managed in Nepal and India recently, so you never know
What's Wade up to nowadays...MG can give him a good DoF and assistant manager and we could go shooting up the league!
So here is the list of realistic names I would see being in the mix:
1. Matt Taylor
2. Steve Evans
3. Derek Adams
4. Martin Devaney
5. Leam Richardson (based up North so I'm not convinced)
6. Garry Monk
7. Omar Riza
8. Paul Hirst (based largely up north but might not be as crazy as it sounds)
That list is pretty depressing from my vantage point.
The vast majority of first time managers fail, I can't remember the exact stat but around 70% (I think never work again) generally you say failed managers but all of them will have had success elsewhere like Evans, Taylor, Hirst and Adams. There are no guarantees but it's a safer option because if we get it wrong we likely end up stuck in the national league.
You mention about the national league but other than Hinshelwood or Garrad who are realistically going to pay compensation for and attract? York, Carlisle and FGR will all have bigger budgets than us in that league, no idea who the Rochdale manager is but likely he's based up North and will fancy landing a promotion, the rest don't stand out.
You mention about the national league but other than Hinshelwood or Garrad who are realistically going to pay compensation for and attract? York, Carlisle and FGR will all have bigger budgets than us in that league, no idea who the Rochdale manager is but likely he's based up North and will fancy landing a promotion, the rest don't stand out.
I agree. We say about Flynn not being given the right tools, at least he wasn't forced to ring around his mates for help coaching because he didn't even have an assistant or first team coach at the start of pre-season.Jerry St Clair wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025, 07:55Wade is doing some part-time scouting for Southampton, but is mostly spending his time as a full-time dad. He’s loving it by all accounts and frankly, i couldnt be happier for him.
He deserves a lot of the blame for the run at the start of the 23/24 season, but the lack of respect he gets for his first season in charge, including being a penalty kick away from Wembley, really irks.
Also, Wade had just taken us to the highest League position in our history - and the board wanted to be a stable L1 club. Did they use the cash from the league success to invest in the ground? Did they seek external investment to give Wade a decent playing budget after doing pretty well with one of the lowest budgets in the League?Si Robin wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025, 11:54I agree. We say about Flynn not being given the right tools, at least he wasn't forced to ring around his mates for help coaching because he didn't even have an assistant or first team coach at the start of pre-season.Jerry St Clair wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025, 07:55Wade is doing some part-time scouting for Southampton, but is mostly spending his time as a full-time dad. He’s loving it by all accounts and frankly, i couldnt be happier for him.
He deserves a lot of the blame for the run at the start of the 23/24 season, but the lack of respect he gets for his first season in charge, including being a penalty kick away from Wembley, really irks.
What's that phrase - the best time to fix the roof is when the sun's shining? The Board didn't fix the roof when the sun was shining, and here we are
