BUCKLE OUT
Moderators: Admin, Ralph, asl, Robin
Pages ago, but at least MY gave a f#!$ about our club.Reliant Robin wrote:i don't think we would have been in this position under Yates, as I believe he would have sorted out the problems. One piece of bad luck he had was the Matt Taylor injury when the results started to go against us and we began shipping goals. People quickly forgot the 5 we scored v Swindon & a clean sheet to boot in one of Yates' last games. It wasn't as bad as it is now.
Since Yates' departure, Buckle has cleared out too many experienced players, and we are left with a lightweight team with hardly any experience and no strength to win a relegation battle.
All we can hope now is that Buckle can work his magic to get us back out of the Conference again at first asking.
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Sprout Picker
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 11:20
John Ward and Keith Downing both available as I understand things!
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Carthorse Ted
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 07 Sep 2010, 21:24
- Location: Taylor's Skinyard
Yo! All this talk on this thread of going down...down...down and now the suggestion of Keith Downing.Sprout Picker wrote:John Ward and Keith Downing both available as I understand things!
LOL!!
(Not a bad shout, though
)
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Carthorse Ted
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 07 Sep 2010, 21:24
- Location: Taylor's Skinyard
Archie Anderson, anyone?Malabus wrote:What's Jim Barron doing these days.
If Baker had listened to the fans then Yates would have gone in the summer as that is what most wanted. Also you can't blame the fans who wanted Yates out for the fact we ended up with Buckle. I imagine none of them would of been their first choice. End of the day the time was right to move on from Yates unfortunately it looks like the boards rash decision not to advertise the job properly is costing us.
Spot on. Yates was sacked for under performing. A new manager was brought in to improve things. He hasn't.RegencyCheltenhamSpa wrote:If it was a case of the players not being good enough why spend money replacing the management team? The point of a new manager is to do a better job in the same situation. If you believe a new manager will only make a difference if you give them money to sign players then why not just give the existing manager the resources? Pulis and Pardew this season have shown how the same players can be made to get better results. Buckle showed how they can be made to get worse ones.Oldun wrote:Thanks! Missed the point old boy! He had to replace the dross brought in by previous manager and has not had the time to do the job. The so called "unproven youngsters" are a vast improvement on jokers playing before. Sadly he has had to persevere with 3or 4 CBB, Richards, Troy, as he couldn't suddenly get 18 New blokes.As said many times, only Carson and Taylor were good enough to hold down places at this level.
I notice how Ronnie Moore at Hartlepool hasn't just blamed the previous manager, he has got on with the job and got some positive results. 7pts in the last four games with a team that apparently had no hope and that were far, far worse than ourselves.
Buckle claims to be a manager, and it's about time he started to perform like one.
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Selwyn Rice
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 24 May 2010, 11:40
I lay the blame entirely at Buckles door and to some extent the board.
Yates for all his faults, kept this club in a sustainable position despite financial restrictions.
Man management is the key.....
A comparison is the Birmingham appointment of Gary Rowett, under the hapless Lee Clark, Birmingham were becoming the laughing stock of the Championship, culminating with a record 0-8 home defeat to Bournemouth, he had to go!
Installing Rowett as manager and a decent coaching team, he has steadied the ship with essentially that same bunch of players and under very tight financial restrictions(similar to the situation here). The result has been a rise up the table from being potential relegation fodder to a galvanized team looking at the higher reaches of the Championship.
The sacking of Yates was a knee jerk reaction by a board desperate to succeed on a limited budget, yet apparently happy to (immediately?) appoint a manager who has been out of the game (and country) for some time on the recommendation of a rival chairman........ Something just doesn't ring true....................
Yates for all his faults, kept this club in a sustainable position despite financial restrictions.
Man management is the key.....
A comparison is the Birmingham appointment of Gary Rowett, under the hapless Lee Clark, Birmingham were becoming the laughing stock of the Championship, culminating with a record 0-8 home defeat to Bournemouth, he had to go!
Installing Rowett as manager and a decent coaching team, he has steadied the ship with essentially that same bunch of players and under very tight financial restrictions(similar to the situation here). The result has been a rise up the table from being potential relegation fodder to a galvanized team looking at the higher reaches of the Championship.
The sacking of Yates was a knee jerk reaction by a board desperate to succeed on a limited budget, yet apparently happy to (immediately?) appoint a manager who has been out of the game (and country) for some time on the recommendation of a rival chairman........ Something just doesn't ring true....................
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Darren Angels budgie
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 22 Nov 2009, 20:13
The problem I had with sacking Yates was that I thought there was a good chance we would get a worse manager. Sadly it seems I was right.
Yates was a victim of his own success. He over-performed by getting us into the play-offs two seasons in a row (incredibly there are still those who say it was a failure the second time as they demanded promotion - how crazy does that seem now) and as soon as he under-performed the knives were out.
For what it's worth, I think Yates' problem was not his player recruitment last summer but the summer before. He brought in Carson and Taylor last year - two players good enough for a promotion side.
But the previous year he brought in the likes of Richards and the other Taylor. Most people thought these were great signings at the time but they turned out to be disappointing. But he was stuck with them and they were taking up a fair chunk of the budget. Had we stuck with Yates - given his past history for player recruitment on a modest budget - I think there was a fair chance we could have developed into a force again.
But we went for a guy who had been in America, had nothing to lose and seemingly has few contacts. A grave mistake that was fueled by unrealistic fans demanding promotion challenge every year. Now reality has hit that there are other possibilities it is all too late. How sad.
Yates was a victim of his own success. He over-performed by getting us into the play-offs two seasons in a row (incredibly there are still those who say it was a failure the second time as they demanded promotion - how crazy does that seem now) and as soon as he under-performed the knives were out.
For what it's worth, I think Yates' problem was not his player recruitment last summer but the summer before. He brought in Carson and Taylor last year - two players good enough for a promotion side.
But the previous year he brought in the likes of Richards and the other Taylor. Most people thought these were great signings at the time but they turned out to be disappointing. But he was stuck with them and they were taking up a fair chunk of the budget. Had we stuck with Yates - given his past history for player recruitment on a modest budget - I think there was a fair chance we could have developed into a force again.
But we went for a guy who had been in America, had nothing to lose and seemingly has few contacts. A grave mistake that was fueled by unrealistic fans demanding promotion challenge every year. Now reality has hit that there are other possibilities it is all too late. How sad.
Rowett i suspect had some strikers.Not a luxury that Buckle has had.He inherited two.One that couldn`t hit a barn door and one that had the ability, but couldn`t be bothered to run or jump.Add in the fact the board have given him peanuts to wheel and deal with and here we are.Selwyn Rice wrote:I lay the blame entirely at Buckles door and to some extent the board.
Yates for all his faults, kept this club in a sustainable position despite financial restrictions.
Man management is the key.....
A comparison is the Birmingham appointment of Gary Rowett, under the hapless Lee Clark, Birmingham were becoming the laughing stock of the Championship, culminating with a record 0-8 home defeat to Bournemouth, he had to go!
Installing Rowett as manager and a decent coaching team, he has steadied the ship with essentially that same bunch of players and under very tight financial restrictions(similar to the situation here). The result has been a rise up the table from being potential relegation fodder to a galvanized team looking at the higher reaches of the Championship.
The sacking of Yates was a knee jerk reaction by a board desperate to succeed on a limited budget, yet apparently happy to (immediately?) appoint a manager who has been out of the game (and country) for some time on the recommendation of a rival chairman........ Something just doesn't ring true....................
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Selwyn Rice
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 24 May 2010, 11:40
Hardly.... Donaldson has come good, but the others nowhere to be seen really. he has utilised the squad, making the midfield more accountable and chipping in with goals....... a TEAM effort if you like...... the similarities are still there right down to being given peanuts to wheel and dealjbond wrote:Rowett i suspect had some strikers.Not a luxury that Buckle has had.He inherited two.One that couldn`t hit a barn door and one that had the ability, but couldn`t be bothered to run or jump.Add in the fact the board have given him peanuts to wheel and deal with and here we are.Selwyn Rice wrote:I lay the blame entirely at Buckles door and to some extent the board.
Yates for all his faults, kept this club in a sustainable position despite financial restrictions.
Man management is the key.....
A comparison is the Birmingham appointment of Gary Rowett, under the hapless Lee Clark, Birmingham were becoming the laughing stock of the Championship, culminating with a record 0-8 home defeat to Bournemouth, he had to go!
Installing Rowett as manager and a decent coaching team, he has steadied the ship with essentially that same bunch of players and under very tight financial restrictions(similar to the situation here). The result has been a rise up the table from being potential relegation fodder to a galvanized team looking at the higher reaches of the Championship.
The sacking of Yates was a knee jerk reaction by a board desperate to succeed on a limited budget, yet apparently happy to (immediately?) appoint a manager who has been out of the game (and country) for some time on the recommendation of a rival chairman........ Something just doesn't ring true....................
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Darren Angels budgie
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 22 Nov 2009, 20:13
If you haven't got any strikers it's probably best not to get rid of your top scorer to a team in a higher division. He now has a day to get someone better. Can't say I fancy his chances given he's had a month to get players in and has failed.
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London Exile
- Posts: 3249
- Joined: 06 Dec 2009, 15:48
I think we'll see 1 permanent striker added tomorrow from a fellow L2 struggler but we've lost Dunn for a month, Stewart for a period of time and I can't say Gray and Ferdinand have shone so far. I think Jones would be best played at CB and play a RB at RB!
Watching the defending yesterday for D&R goals, we looked woeful. Troy Brown, bless him, was turned inside out.
Next week I'd start Berry and Bowen a full back and play either Jones/Elliott alongside Taylor
Watching the defending yesterday for D&R goals, we looked woeful. Troy Brown, bless him, was turned inside out.
Next week I'd start Berry and Bowen a full back and play either Jones/Elliott alongside Taylor
Welcome but I have to pull you up here, when we were we a mid-table team? We looked hell bent on relegation and I think this is the only reason fans are still behind Buckle i.e. was left with one hell of a mess to clean up. That said, he rightly deserves criticism for some of the things he has done.Goldbug wrote:My first post. Such was the ineptitude of today's performance, i now feel the need to voice my ultimately irrelevant opinions on to this poisonous battleground.
BUCKLE OUT.
Dunn goes down with an injury, takes 5 minutes from going down to getting off the pitch, yet we STILL don't have a sub ready to come on and have to take a throw in deep in the opposition half with 10 men. Is this Yates' fault?
When your team is struggling, is there a more negative thing to see than your manager and all his subs sitting snug in the dugout?
People are still saying 'give Buckle a chance' but I see no reason to. There hasn't been a thing to convince me that he is the right man for the job, so far turning a mid-table side in to a relegation-probable. The sole reason he was brought in was to change our fortunes for the better, not worse. That is why he is here!!! We were not the sinking ship that so many people are claiming, but now we are half submerged.
Paul Baker is a great chairman but must take some of the blame as it was obvious they had lined up Buckle before removing Yates. Unfortunately he gave in to the moaning lot Ben was referring to and now we are left with this mess.
Would have loved to see Buckle in front of the fans after the final whistle today but he was nowhere to be seen.
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slinky_dog
- Posts: 252
- Joined: 05 Dec 2011, 21:19
What a cancerous thread.
Why does human nature always look to find somebody to blame in pretty much every situation.
We are in the sh*t. Numerous reasons have brought us to this:
Terrible support - lack of passion, apathy, lack of numbers (I include myself in this; I used to go to every game once, now I probably only go to half)
Lack of finance - linked to above
A stale management team (I liked Yates but he had to go, and probably sooner than he did)
Perhaps a stale Board (but I know I owe them a debt that I can never repay - too many great moments in last 20 Years)
Lack of pride / work ethic - probably why Yates had to go
Perhaps a bit of bad luck this season but you make your own luck and over the last 20 years we have had our fair share
Buckle - not sure much blame can really go to him as yet. Not the greatest start but I wasn't expecting miracles. Next 24 hours will be important.
One thing for certain, fans/manager/players/board will as a unit stay up or go down and in 24 hours it'll be too late to change any of those. Hence this thread is rather pointless.
Why does human nature always look to find somebody to blame in pretty much every situation.
We are in the sh*t. Numerous reasons have brought us to this:
Terrible support - lack of passion, apathy, lack of numbers (I include myself in this; I used to go to every game once, now I probably only go to half)
Lack of finance - linked to above
A stale management team (I liked Yates but he had to go, and probably sooner than he did)
Perhaps a stale Board (but I know I owe them a debt that I can never repay - too many great moments in last 20 Years)
Lack of pride / work ethic - probably why Yates had to go
Perhaps a bit of bad luck this season but you make your own luck and over the last 20 years we have had our fair share
Buckle - not sure much blame can really go to him as yet. Not the greatest start but I wasn't expecting miracles. Next 24 hours will be important.
One thing for certain, fans/manager/players/board will as a unit stay up or go down and in 24 hours it'll be too late to change any of those. Hence this thread is rather pointless.
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Darren Angels budgie
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 22 Nov 2009, 20:13
They must have pretty warm hands then.Alf wrote:Moaning minority? Is that the moaning minority of a few hundred people that couldn't take any more and stopped coming to games or the moaning minority that rub their hands with glee every time we fail to win a game under Paul Buckle?
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tunnelvision
- Posts: 479
- Joined: 24 Nov 2009, 12:34
My viewpoint on the current situation and response to some of the points made above:
Under Yates:
1. He should probably have gone in the summer.
2. The squad at the start of this season was generally poor and unbalanced. Only having two permanent strikers was a risk which has backfired badly.
3. Propensity to play "square-pegs in round holes".
4. The board sacking Yates mid-season in response to "a moaning minority" is incorrect. It was in response to a run of very poor results and a steadily falling gate, which began last season. See point 1.
Under Buckle:
5. Obviously has no funds to play with. Was it the same for Yates or did he spend what was available?
6. Has shipped out a lot of the dead wood, hopefully, giving him some cash for new signings. However, somewhat concerned about two decisions. Firstly, letting Black go given the situation with CBB, as it's looking like we'll soon be relying on the (largely) untried Powell. Secondly, letting Harrison go before having signed a suitable replacement is extremely worrying, especially given the injury to Dunn. Unless he pulls something out of the bag tomorrow, it can only be considered to be a huge mistake.
7. Playing Jones at RB - see 3 above. If he has to play Jones, then play him at CB. We now have 2 RB's and I'd also think that Troy could probably play there too. Given that we have CB cover, I'd think that the lad is probably surplus to requirements. If so, send him back, unless he's costing us nothing.
8. Appears to have no plan B, for when Plan A goes wrong. (Also, a criticism aimed at Yates).
9. Has failed to recruit any experienced players, or address the obvious deficiencies within the squad. The most pressing being 1 or 2 new strikers.
The Board:
10. Did they see replacing the manager as a cheaper alternative to backing the existing one? Did they hope that this alone would boost the attendance?
11. Have they misled Buckle on the amount of money available or has he blown it on his entourage?
Harrison:
12. A frustrating player who rarely looked to be making much effort. However, the only player we had that could find the back of the net. Why could neither manager get the best out of him? To me he's a box player that needs good balls into the box. Why couldn't either manager find players to do that? (In Buckle's case, I don't think that he made any effort to accommodate Harrison, as he wanted a different style of play - Plan A only).
The Outlook:
13. We're heavily reliant on a group of inexperienced players, mostly just kids, and without a proven goal scorer. We can't keep a clean sheet and it's almost impossible to see where any goals might come from. I just don't see any positives going forward, at present.
Under Yates:
1. He should probably have gone in the summer.
2. The squad at the start of this season was generally poor and unbalanced. Only having two permanent strikers was a risk which has backfired badly.
3. Propensity to play "square-pegs in round holes".
4. The board sacking Yates mid-season in response to "a moaning minority" is incorrect. It was in response to a run of very poor results and a steadily falling gate, which began last season. See point 1.
Under Buckle:
5. Obviously has no funds to play with. Was it the same for Yates or did he spend what was available?
6. Has shipped out a lot of the dead wood, hopefully, giving him some cash for new signings. However, somewhat concerned about two decisions. Firstly, letting Black go given the situation with CBB, as it's looking like we'll soon be relying on the (largely) untried Powell. Secondly, letting Harrison go before having signed a suitable replacement is extremely worrying, especially given the injury to Dunn. Unless he pulls something out of the bag tomorrow, it can only be considered to be a huge mistake.
7. Playing Jones at RB - see 3 above. If he has to play Jones, then play him at CB. We now have 2 RB's and I'd also think that Troy could probably play there too. Given that we have CB cover, I'd think that the lad is probably surplus to requirements. If so, send him back, unless he's costing us nothing.
8. Appears to have no plan B, for when Plan A goes wrong. (Also, a criticism aimed at Yates).
9. Has failed to recruit any experienced players, or address the obvious deficiencies within the squad. The most pressing being 1 or 2 new strikers.
The Board:
10. Did they see replacing the manager as a cheaper alternative to backing the existing one? Did they hope that this alone would boost the attendance?
11. Have they misled Buckle on the amount of money available or has he blown it on his entourage?
Harrison:
12. A frustrating player who rarely looked to be making much effort. However, the only player we had that could find the back of the net. Why could neither manager get the best out of him? To me he's a box player that needs good balls into the box. Why couldn't either manager find players to do that? (In Buckle's case, I don't think that he made any effort to accommodate Harrison, as he wanted a different style of play - Plan A only).
The Outlook:
13. We're heavily reliant on a group of inexperienced players, mostly just kids, and without a proven goal scorer. We can't keep a clean sheet and it's almost impossible to see where any goals might come from. I just don't see any positives going forward, at present.
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Darren Angels budgie
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 22 Nov 2009, 20:13
I would love Buckle to help us win the next ten games and then get us promoted next season but from what I've seen I can't see where we're going to get the necessary points to stay up from.Alf wrote:Have you?
He's got rid of all the experienced players including our top scorer despite having only one other striker and we're playing worse than I can remember since getting into the league.
I'm sure there were those who wanted us to lose under Yates so he would be sacked (and look where that has got us) but all I want is success for my club. I just don't know how anyone can be optimistic with Buckle in charge from what he's done so far.
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Darren Angels budgie
- Posts: 495
- Joined: 22 Nov 2009, 20:13
You must have missed most of Buckle's games then. But it's wins and points that matter and that's why Buckle has dropped us right in it. To lost eight points on the relegation line in 10 league games shows how bad we have been since he took over.Robin wrote:Did you see the garbage served up under Yates DAB? It was far worse than the majority of games under Buckle to be very honest.
For me the majority of the blame has to go to the players, they should not need motivating, Buckle can only do so much but once they cross that white line it is down to them to get it right, they haven't.
Yates simply had to go because A) we were not scoring enough B) we were getting thrashed to easily (not just this season, last season too) C) he had no more ideas.
Atm it's difficult for me to judge Buckle because he is still working with the majority of the mess he inherited although he hasn't helped himself at times, fingers crossed we survive this season, it's not looking good..
Yates simply had to go because A) we were not scoring enough B) we were getting thrashed to easily (not just this season, last season too) C) he had no more ideas.
Atm it's difficult for me to judge Buckle because he is still working with the majority of the mess he inherited although he hasn't helped himself at times, fingers crossed we survive this season, it's not looking good..
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RegencyCheltenhamSpa
- Posts: 30135
- Joined: 21 Nov 2009, 03:27
It is incredibly easy to judge actually. Two managers. Same squad. Ergo, manager with highest points per game record over a comparable number of games does the better job.CTFC03 wrote:For me the majority of the blame has to go to the players, they should not need motivating, Buckle can only do so much but once they cross that white line it is down to them to get it right, they haven't.
Yates simply had to go because A) we were not scoring enough B) we were getting thrashed to easily (not just this season, last season too) C) he had no more ideas.
Atm it's difficult for me to judge Buckle because he is still working with the majority of the mess he inherited although he hasn't helped himself at times, fingers crossed we survive this season, it's not looking good..
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I-Love-CTFC
- Posts: 1545
- Joined: 09 Jul 2011, 15:55
I really struggle to see how there's been any kind of improvement under Buckle. Negative tactics at home, still conceding goals, players being played out of position.
We played well against Luton last week and made them look ordinary, there were cries for PB to change it but he knew he couldn't change it because we were in control, I look at that game and think if Yates was in charge we would have lost that.
But on the other hand we are not winning games and I do wonder in 4/5 games time and assuming we for example lose 3 and draw 2 will Baker make another managerial change and roll the dice one more time in a bid to save us from the drop?
But on the other hand we are not winning games and I do wonder in 4/5 games time and assuming we for example lose 3 and draw 2 will Baker make another managerial change and roll the dice one more time in a bid to save us from the drop?
every now and then someone makes a classic post - this is one of the best for a long time - every angle coveredtunnelvision wrote:My viewpoint on the current situation and response to some of the points made above:
Under Yates:
1. He should probably have gone in the summer.
2. The squad at the start of this season was generally poor and unbalanced. Only having two permanent strikers was a risk which has backfired badly.
3. Propensity to play "square-pegs in round holes".
4. The board sacking Yates mid-season in response to "a moaning minority" is incorrect. It was in response to a run of very poor results and a steadily falling gate, which began last season. See point 1.
Under Buckle:
5. Obviously has no funds to play with. Was it the same for Yates or did he spend what was available?
6. Has shipped out a lot of the dead wood, hopefully, giving him some cash for new signings. However, somewhat concerned about two decisions. Firstly, letting Black go given the situation with CBB, as it's looking like we'll soon be relying on the (largely) untried Powell. Secondly, letting Harrison go before having signed a suitable replacement is extremely worrying, especially given the injury to Dunn. Unless he pulls something out of the bag tomorrow, it can only be considered to be a huge mistake.
7. Playing Jones at RB - see 3 above. If he has to play Jones, then play him at CB. We now have 2 RB's and I'd also think that Troy could probably play there too. Given that we have CB cover, I'd think that the lad is probably surplus to requirements. If so, send him back, unless he's costing us nothing.
8. Appears to have no plan B, for when Plan A goes wrong. (Also, a criticism aimed at Yates).
9. Has failed to recruit any experienced players, or address the obvious deficiencies within the squad. The most pressing being 1 or 2 new strikers.
The Board:
10. Did they see replacing the manager as a cheaper alternative to backing the existing one? Did they hope that this alone would boost the attendance?
11. Have they misled Buckle on the amount of money available or has he blown it on his entourage?
Harrison:
12. A frustrating player who rarely looked to be making much effort. However, the only player we had that could find the back of the net. Why could neither manager get the best out of him? To me he's a box player that needs good balls into the box. Why couldn't either manager find players to do that? (In Buckle's case, I don't think that he made any effort to accommodate Harrison, as he wanted a different style of play - Plan A only).
The Outlook:
13. We're heavily reliant on a group of inexperienced players, mostly just kids, and without a proven goal scorer. We can't keep a clean sheet and it's almost impossible to see where any goals might come from. I just don't see any positives going forward, at present.