Away allocation

[CS85]

The club seriously need to find away to increase what we can give to away teams whilst we are in this division, we are missing out on to much money.
Potentially next season we could have Sunderland, Ipswich,pompey,Derby,Bristol rovers,Bolton,Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday who are all capable of bringing 2,000 fans,a few would bring 3k+ if they could.
The most we have given a side is 1500 and thats our maximum
Clubs like Accrington can make the most of away followings as they can give the allocation.
I dont know how we do it,but effort must be made on this to give us the best chance to help our playing budget and costs.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

The limiting factor is segregation in the Colin Farmer concourse.

The concourse is separated by the red shutters which are rolled down.

I don’t think they can be physically moved. You can see the red metal frame here where the shutters are:

https://i0.wp.com/arnoldfurious.com/wp- ... 1280&ssl=1

If they tried to close off more of the home half of the concourse then it would close off that access tunnel through to pitch side, leaving home fans with only one access tunnel which is not enough.

I guess in theory you could give some of block 5 to away fans but I would not support that as there are ST holders there and we can’t ask ST holders to give up a good seat for one of the big games as that’s why people buy STs!

Alternatives are to give away fans the canteen area and/or some of the main stand but the same issue with ST holders remain.

Ultimately, didn’t all available seats sell out for the Sheff Wed and Sunderland etc games? So unless away fans are given some standing areas there is not much which can be done.

[Si Robin]

Whilst I get the financial benefits of giving away fans more tickets - can't say I'm a fan of being outnumbered by fans in our own stadium.

EFL rules mean we only have to give 10% of our capacity as an allocation - we give more than that already.

[Robin]

Whilst I get the financial benefits of giving away fans more tickets - can't say I'm a fan of being outnumbered by fans in our own stadium.

EFL rules mean we only have to give 10% of our capacity as an allocation - we give more than that already.

Outnumbered is a but much Si, if we gave the entire Colin Farmer to the the away fans they get 1900, our lowest home turnout is 3200 I believe and it's usually closer to 4000 for the bigger games anyway. Only way I think we can do anything short term (i.e. before the new stand is built) is to give the Paddock area to away fans but again it won't be easy to segregate.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Whilst I get the financial benefits of giving away fans more tickets - can't say I'm a fan of being outnumbered by fans in our own stadium.

EFL rules mean we only have to give 10% of our capacity as an allocation - we give more than that already.

Outnumbered is a but much Si, if we gave the entire Colin Farmer to the the away fans they get 1900, our lowest home turnout is 3200 I believe and it's usually closer to 4000 for the bigger games anyway. Only way I think we can do anything short term (i.e. before the new stand is built) is to give the Paddock area to away fans but again it won't be easy to segregate.

Good point but our home turnout would be lower if we didn’t have the CF.

[Jerry St Clair]

Yes, pretty much the only practical solution is to assign the Colin Farmer to away fans but that is fraught with problems. I'm not convinced that alienating hundreds of CF regulars/season ticket holders so we can flog 500 extra away tickets for half a dozen games per season would be sensible.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Yes, pretty much the only practical solution is to assign the Colin Farmer to away fans but that is fraught with problems. I'm not convinced that alienating hundreds of CF regulars/season ticket holders so we can flog 500 extra away tickets for half a dozen games per season would be sensible.

It would alienate and cost. The only reason I buy an ST is so I can turn up for big games, or other games I can make, and have a guaranteed good view next to people I know.

If I was told I had to move to a different stand or terrace for the games I was most looking forward to watching I would either not buy or would expect a refund and goodwill gesture for those games. So the club would actually lose money by giving my seat to an away fan.

[CS85]

Looks like there isn't really a way then without pissing people off or having to make massive changes.
That new main stand really is holding us back.

[Jerry St Clair]

Looks like there isn't really a way then without pissing people off or having to make massive changes.
That new main stand really is holding us back.

The Main Stand issue is Godwin's Law for the Robins Nest Forum. All debates lead to it eventually!

[Robin]

Yes, pretty much the only practical solution is to assign the Colin Farmer to away fans but that is fraught with problems. I'm not convinced that alienating hundreds of CF regulars/season ticket holders so we can flog 500 extra away tickets for half a dozen games per season would be sensible.

To cavaet I did say that the only thing we can do until any new stand is built is to give the Paddock area to away fans. A new stand is crucial for us at this level but how many years is it away given it's likely to cost £5million plus?

[Robin]

Whilst I get the financial benefits of giving away fans more tickets - can't say I'm a fan of being outnumbered by fans in our own stadium.

EFL rules mean we only have to give 10% of our capacity as an allocation - we give more than that already.

Outnumbered is a but much Si, if we gave the entire Colin Farmer to the the away fans they get 1900, our lowest home turnout is 3200 I believe and it's usually closer to 4000 for the bigger games anyway. Only way I think we can do anything short term (i.e. before the new stand is built) is to give the Paddock area to away fans but again it won't be easy to segregate.

Good point but our home turnout would be lower if we didn’t have the CF.

Not if we build the new stand it won't people will naturally move over to a larger stand with better facilities and a better view regardless so that would be the natural point to give the Colin Farmer to away fans.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

[Si Robin]

Only once have away supporters been given the PRE - that was when Plymouth brought more fans than we expected in our first ever Football League season.

There was one season when the Hazelwoods was given to home fans, with away fans just being given blocks 6 and 7 or the Colin Farmer. It was on the proviso that if there was a big away following then those in the Hazelwoods would have to accept being moved. It wasn't a success.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Outnumbered is a but much Si, if we gave the entire Colin Farmer to the the away fans they get 1900, our lowest home turnout is 3200 I believe and it's usually closer to 4000 for the bigger games anyway. Only way I think we can do anything short term (i.e. before the new stand is built) is to give the Paddock area to away fans but again it won't be easy to segregate.

Good point but our home turnout would be lower if we didn’t have the CF.

Not if we build the new stand it won't people will naturally move over to a larger stand with better facilities and a better view regardless so that would be the natural point to give the Colin Farmer to away fans.

Yea, completely. I was just talking about now/next season as a new stand will be some years off!

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

For the hassle it wouldn’t be worth it.

In seats we charge £23 in advance to away fans vs £18 in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

For the hassle it wouldn’t be worth it.

In seats we charge £23 in advance to away fans vs £18 in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23.

You are right although an extra £2.5k for say 4 games per season isn't to be sniffed at, that's £10k or 2 new Alfie May's!!!!!!

[Robin]

It would be significantly more than 4 games though Sunderland, Derby, Sheff Wed, Pompey, Ipswich would all sell 2000 tickets, Bristol Rovers, Oxford, Charlton could both potentially sell that too. An extra 600 tickets at £20 each (deducting some for juniors) is £12,000 so potentially it's close to an extra £100k per season which would fund an extra first team player.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

For the hassle it wouldn’t be worth it.

In seats we charge £23 in advance to away fans vs £18 in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23.

You are right although an extra £2.5k for say 4 games per season isn't to be sniffed at, that's £10k or 2 new Alfie May's!!!!!!

Also have to factor in if the same number of home fans that normally go in PRE will go in the Hazlewoods, and what price they are charged.

[Jerry St Clair]

I'd completely ruled our giving the PRE to away fans simply for segregation purposes. Having 2000 away fans entering/exiting through the car park would be a potential nightmare. If Cakebridge Place access were available to exit onto Prestbury Rd that might make a difference

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

It would be significantly more than 4 games though Sunderland, Derby, Sheff Wed, Pompey, Ipswich would all sell 2000 tickets, Bristol Rovers, Oxford, Charlton could both potentially sell that too. An extra 600 tickets at £20 each (deducting some for juniors) is £12,000 so potentially it's close to an extra £100k per season which would fund an extra first team player.

It’s not an extra £12k. If there are 2,000 paying £20 that’s £40k per game. The current set up is 1,500 paying £25 which is £37.5k per game. So it is only £2.5k per game more to move away fans from Hazlewoods/CF to PRE.

[CS85]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

For the hassle it wouldn’t be worth it.

In seats we charge £23 in advance to away fans vs £18 in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23.

23 in advance? Its 26! , 28 on the day just like the Colin farmer stand.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

For the hassle it wouldn’t be worth it.

In seats we charge £23 in advance to away fans vs £18 in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23.

23 in advance? Its 26! , 28 on the day just like the Colin farmer stand.

Apologies and thanks for correction.

In which case…

2,000 standing in PRE x £18 = £36k income

1,500 seating in Hazlewoods/CF x £26 = £39k income

So giving the away fans the PRE would see us lose £3k in away ticket money per game.

Of course what we don’t know is how many home fans would use the Hazlewoods/CF…would we sell out the 1,500 and therefore increase attendance and income overall or would we just have 1,500 empty seats and lose all the £3k described above. Probably somewhere in between.

[bigdavejambo]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

the dug outs are that way round at most grounds as the linesman is in front of the home dugout and avoids him getting an earful from the away dugout - you will find that is the case at most grounds.

[Warwickshire Robin]

I guess the cheapest option in terms of construction costs would be to swap ends and give the away supporters the PRE as this has a capacity of around 2,000 and make the Hazelwoods the Home end. I believe this was tried before a number of years ago but not kept on, I assume due to segregation issues of getting away supporters in and out of that end?

Also, always thought it is strange that the dug outs are the way round that they are, usually the Home dug out is nearest the Home end so that would solve that!

the dug outs are that way round at most grounds as the linesman is in front of the home dugout and avoids him getting an earful from the away dugout - you will find that is the case at most grounds.

Ah, OK, never thought of it that way before. Though it probably doesn't really make much difference as MD never seems to be shy in letting the officials know his thoughts from the Home dug out!!

[horlickfanclub]

The optimistic income calculations seem to forget VAT.

[bigdavejambo]

The optimistic income calculations seem to forget VAT.

and extra policing and stewarding costs

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

The optimistic income calculations seem to forget VAT.

Lol. We were just comparing like with like. It’s the margin of difference in income which is important when considering away fans, not the accurate net figure.

[Red Duke]

The optimistic income calculations seem to forget VAT.

Lol. We were just comparing like with like. It’s the margin of difference in income which is important when considering away fans, not the accurate net figure.

Horlick is right. The numbers that have been quoted are in pounds and therefore any difference between them will be smaller due to VAT.

Using your figures, VAT deducted in brackets

In seats we charge £23 (£19.16) in advance to away fans vs £18 (£15.00) in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 (£36,000 inc VAT, £28740 exc. VAT) it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23 (£34,500 inc VAT, £30,000 exc, VAT).

The difference including VAT is £1500 (not £2500) and £1260 excluding VAT.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

The optimistic income calculations seem to forget VAT.

Lol. We were just comparing like with like. It’s the margin of difference in income which is important when considering away fans, not the accurate net figure.

Horlick is right. The numbers that have been quoted are in pounds and therefore any difference between them will be smaller due to VAT.

Using your figures, VAT deducted in brackets

In seats we charge £23 (£19.16) in advance to away fans vs £18 (£15.00) in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 (£36,000 inc VAT, £28740 exc. VAT) it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23 (£34,500 inc VAT, £30,000 exc, VAT).

The difference including VAT is £1500 (not £2500) and £1260 excluding VAT.

It’s £26 in advance for away fans, not £23.

The ticket price difference between CF/Hazlewoods and the C&G is 44% whether using gross (£26/£18) or net (£21.67/£15) numbers, which is the point. 1,500 away fans sitting generates more revenue than 2,000 standing which is all the figures were illustrating.

[horlickfanclub]

Lets forget about accurate budgeting as Vat is irrelevant to some. Thank goodness we have a Board who understand tax laws.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Lets forget about accurate budgeting as Vat is irrelevant to some. Thank goodness we have a Board who understand tax laws.

What are you on about?

No one is basing a budget on this or saying it was an accurate budget.

It was just a thread about away allocation and the discussion moved on to whether we would be better off moving away fans to the PRE and selling 2,000 tickets there as opposed to 1,500 in seats. And based on ticket prices, we would not be. That’s all the thread is about.

[Red Duke]

Lol. We were just comparing like with like. It’s the margin of difference in income which is important when considering away fans, not the accurate net figure.

Horlick is right. The numbers that have been quoted are in pounds and therefore any difference between them will be smaller due to VAT.

Using your figures, VAT deducted in brackets

In seats we charge £23 (£19.16) in advance to away fans vs £18 (£15.00) in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 (£36,000 inc VAT, £28740 exc. VAT) it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23 (£34,500 inc VAT, £30,000 exc, VAT).

The difference including VAT is £1500 (not £2500) and £1260 excluding VAT.

It’s £26 in advance for away fans, not £23.

The ticket price difference between CF/Hazlewoods and the C&G is 44% whether using gross (£26/£18) or net (£21.67/£15) numbers, which is the point. 1,500 away fans sitting generates more revenue than 2,000 standing which is all the figures were illustrating.

I wasn't aware that was the point you were illustrating.

If you are doing money comparisons, I think it is essential that you use the right figures to back-up an argument.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Horlick is right. The numbers that have been quoted are in pounds and therefore any difference between them will be smaller due to VAT.

Using your figures, VAT deducted in brackets

In seats we charge £23 (£19.16) in advance to away fans vs £18 (£15.00) in the PRE.

So assuming 2,000 x £18 (£36,000 inc VAT, £28740 exc. VAT) it is only £2.5k more income than 1,500 x £23 (£34,500 inc VAT, £30,000 exc, VAT).

The difference including VAT is £1500 (not £2500) and £1260 excluding VAT.

It’s £26 in advance for away fans, not £23.

The ticket price difference between CF/Hazlewoods and the C&G is 44% whether using gross (£26/£18) or net (£21.67/£15) numbers, which is the point. 1,500 away fans sitting generates more revenue than 2,000 standing which is all the figures were illustrating.

I wasn't aware that was the point you were illustrating.

If you are doing money comparisons, I think it is essential that you use the right figures to back-up an argument.

The money comparison was between ticket turnover for 1,500 seated away fans compared to 2,000 standing. The conclusion of which is the larger turnover stays the same whether using gross or net of VAT. Hence it not really being material to the point.

But I do agree using correct figures to back up an argument is important. Hence why I provided you with the correct figures as you used the wrong one in your unnecessary argument.

[Red Duke]

It’s £26 in advance for away fans, not £23.

The ticket price difference between CF/Hazlewoods and the C&G is 44% whether using gross (£26/£18) or net (£21.67/£15) numbers, which is the point. 1,500 away fans sitting generates more revenue than 2,000 standing which is all the figures were illustrating.

I wasn't aware that was the point you were illustrating.

If you are doing money comparisons, I think it is essential that you use the right figures to back-up an argument.

The money comparison was between ticket turnover for 1,500 seated away fans compared to 2,000 standing. The conclusion of which is the larger turnover stays the same whether using gross or net of VAT. Hence it not really being material to the point.

But I do agree using correct figures to back up an argument is important. Hence why I provided you with the correct figures as you used the wrong one in your unnecessary argument.

I am sorry but I copied and pasted the exact values you put in your post. You quoted £23.00 in your initial augument, that you subsequently revised to £26.00.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

I wasn't aware that was the point you were illustrating.

If you are doing money comparisons, I think it is essential that you use the right figures to back-up an argument.

The money comparison was between ticket turnover for 1,500 seated away fans compared to 2,000 standing. The conclusion of which is the larger turnover stays the same whether using gross or net of VAT. Hence it not really being material to the point.

But I do agree using correct figures to back up an argument is important. Hence why I provided you with the correct figures as you used the wrong one in your unnecessary argument.

I am sorry but I copied and pasted the exact values you put in your post. You quoted £23.00 in your initial augument, that you subsequently revised to £26.00.

After someone helpfully corrected me

Which you would have seen had you read the thread.

I am not making an argument I am trying to back up… I don’t have a view either way. I don’t care which end away fans go. I was simply showing that at current price points there is not much in it in terms of ticket revenue.

Shame the usual suspects have attacked the poster rather than the post contributing to ten or more unnecessary and unhelpful posts, ruining the thread for everyone.