New owners?

[Fuller]

Not here, but possibly at League Two rivals Tranmere?
Interesting article. US market for us one day?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 242y5ney4o

[Ihearye]

Not here, but possibly at League Two rivals Tranmere?
Interesting article. US market for us one day?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 242y5ney4o

please God no

[Robin]

That takeover looks like it will go belly up, I suspect we may end up with American ownership but hopefully it's the right group that understand sport.

[CTFC.Harry]

Please, no Americans...

[asl]

If we get new money from an investor who's primary motives are altruistic, I wouldn't give a flying fig what nationality he is...

[Robin]

If we get new money from an investor who's primary motives are altruistic, I wouldn't give a flying fig what nationality he is...

American investment is going into a lot of lower league clubs, whilst their approach and influence is not what you'd traditionally expect I don't think we are in a position to turn it down if they are going to fund a 4000 new main stand with non match day income that allows us to grow crowds and become an established league one side.

[Fuller]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... j7pv6qg12o

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... j7pv6qg12o

Bring on the pre-season tour to Cheltenham PA

[everyman]

Please, no Americans...

Why not South America-Argentina,we already have supporters in Buenos Aires and a local man made a fortune importing meat products from there ?

[Jerry St Clair]

If we get new money from an investor who's primary motives are altruistic, I wouldn't give a flying fig what nationality he is...

Agreed. Although, I would be very surprised if a group of American sports club investors were be doing it for the love of CTFC. They would be looking to buy low and sell high.

A rich fan, or an altruistically motivated Cheltonian with civic pride and deep pockets would be the ideal.

After that, fan ownership, please.

[longmover]

Not here, but possibly at League Two rivals Tranmere?
Interesting article. US market for us one day?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 242y5ney4o

thank those clowns at rexham for all this nonsense

[Artemis]

If we get new money from an investor who's primary motives are altruistic, I wouldn't give a flying fig what nationality he is...

Agreed. Although, I would be very surprised if a group of American sports club investors were be doing it for the love of CTFC. They would be looking to buy low and sell high.

A rich fan, or an altruistically motivated Cheltonian with civic pride and deep pockets would be the ideal.

After that, fan ownership, please.

Someone with horse racing connections perhaps? Maybe with a link to Ireland? Deep pockets and long arms, of course, and bags of altruism essential.

Other than that, yes, a collective fan ownership.

[Si Robin]

I don't see how fan ownership works for a club like Cheltenham.

We're already saying that the club needs proper investment to bring it into the modern age, and I just don't see the Trust being able to finance that (though admittedly I have no idea of the Trust's finances).

[Robin]

We are damned if we do and damned if we don't here because everyone else is benefiting already we are now lagging behind but at some point this will dry up and clubs like Wrexham will be struggling again without the cash being pumped in constantly. Let's just hope our owners do indeed build us a new 4000 seater main stand which can be used for generations meaning we benefit long term rather than pumping in millions for a season in the Championship shorter term.

[Robin]

If we get new money from an investor who's primary motives are altruistic, I wouldn't give a flying fig what nationality he is...

Agreed. Although, I would be very surprised if a group of American sports club investors were be doing it for the love of CTFC. They would be looking to buy low and sell high.

A rich fan, or an altruistically motivated Cheltonian with civic pride and deep pockets would be the ideal.

After that, fan ownership, please.

We are fan owned now with out three largest shareholders all fans (including the trust) we just don't have the money we need for infrastructure improvements to survive and grow the club. Trust owned clubs like Exeter and Wimbledon will be in serious trouble due to this external investment coming into the game so becareful wishing for that.

[Robin]

I don't see how fan ownership works for a club like Cheltenham.

We're already saying that the club needs proper investment to bring it into the modern age, and I just don't see the Trust being able to finance that (though admittedly I have no idea of the Trust's finances).

This. Both Simon Keswick and Charles Jennings put in money to the club which the club cannot come anywhere close to doing so, I'm talking six figures on a frequent basis. They both help us the trust simply has no way of doing that let alone finding £10 million for a new 4000 seater main stand.

[Artemis]

My point was if we can't have minted truly altruistic ownership, I'd rather fan ownership than the club being an investment or financial vehicle. If that means foregoing the shiny new standard, then so be it.

[Robin]

So essentially keeping the status quo? I do not believe Charles Jennings will sell up unless someone is willing to fund the main stand. The issue with that is without at least a main stand to grow crowds and revenue we could end up in the national league and stuck there for years.

[longmover]

So essentially keeping the status quo? I do not believe Charles Jennings will sell up unless someone is willing to fund the main stand. The issue with that is without at least a main stand to grow crowds and revenue we could end up in the national league and stuck there for years.

if we go down as we are we're done, we'll be part time in two seasons.

[Artemis]

So essentially keeping the status quo? I do not believe Charles Jennings will sell up unless someone is willing to fund the main stand. The issue with that is without at least a main stand to grow crowds and revenue we could end up in the national league and stuck there for years.

I don't believe many, if any, of us want a fly-by-night shyster involved in our club, or someone who sees it as purely a financial instrument, or to massage an ego. And I don't think the current majority owners would hand over the club to someone like that.

Someone who sees the significant investment in the football club as the oxygen of publicity for their chosen business / interest, yes (like Dale Vince at FGR or the guys at Wrexham). Hence the potential racing connections.

[Robin]

So essentially keeping the status quo? I do not believe Charles Jennings will sell up unless someone is willing to fund the main stand. The issue with that is without at least a main stand to grow crowds and revenue we could end up in the national league and stuck there for years.

if we go down as we are we're done, we'll be part time in two seasons.

If we went down we would be one of the best supported sides at that level, I know a couple of clubs have investment but isn't 70% of that league supposedly full time? Curious why we would need to go part time.

[Ihearye]

Not here, but possibly at League Two rivals Tranmere?
Interesting article. US market for us one day?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 242y5ney4o

thank those clowns at rexham for all this nonsense

From what i have been led to believe, the only clowns who have actually put money into Wrexham are Netflix.

[Shade]

Not here, but possibly at League Two rivals Tranmere?
Interesting article. US market for us one day?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 242y5ney4o

thank those clowns at rexham for all this nonsense

From what i have been led to believe, the only clowns who have actually put money into Wrexham are Netflix.

Well, it's Disney+ that produce their documentary so it would be them, rather than Netflix, that would put be money into them.

Not sure why Reynolds and McElhenney are being called clowns, tbh. Jealousy I guess. They've taken the club up 2 divisions with the investment they've put into the club (whether from their own pockets or sourced from elsewhere), and could well have them in the Championship by August, which will ony garner further interest and investment opportunities for the club. They're improving the infrastructure of that club and giving the people of Wrexham a good time. There was also American investment in British clubs long before Wrexham.

I don't particularly care if they do go up again. Now they've passed us by, thankfully without having to play them (the only good thing that came out of relegation last season, imo), I'm not bothered about them.

[Malabus]

I see American chat show host, Ellen DeGeneres has moved in the (Cotswold) area.
Pretty sure she is a ‘soccer’ fan.

[Ihearye]

thank those clowns at rexham for all this nonsense

From what i have been led to believe, the only clowns who have actually put money into Wrexham are Netflix.

Well, it's Disney+ that produce their documentary so it would be them, rather than Netflix, that would put be money into them.

Not sure why Reynolds and McElhenney are being called clowns, tbh. Jealousy I guess. They've taken the club up 2 divisions with the investment they've put into the club (whether from their own pockets or sourced from elsewhere), and could well have them in the Championship by August, which will ony garner further interest and investment opportunities for the club. They're improving the infrastructure of that club and giving the people of Wrexham a good time. There was also American investment in British clubs long before Wrexham.

I don't particularly care if they do go up again. Now they've passed us by, thankfully without having to play them (the only good thing that came out of relegation last season, imo), I'm not bothered about them.

Disney, Netflix. Sorry if it is not on the home service it's beyond my understanding

[Ihearye]

I see American chat show host, Ellen DeGeneres has moved in the (Cotswold) area.
Pretty sure she is a ‘soccer’ fan.

That horror bag, please no

[Robin]

thank those clowns at rexham for all this nonsense

From what i have been led to believe, the only clowns who have actually put money into Wrexham are Netflix.

Well, it's Disney+ that produce their documentary so it would be them, rather than Netflix, that would put be money into them.

Not sure why Reynolds and McElhenney are being called clowns, tbh. Jealousy I guess. They've taken the club up 2 divisions with the investment they've put into the club (whether from their own pockets or sourced from elsewhere), and could well have them in the Championship by August, which will ony garner further interest and investment opportunities for the club. They're improving the infrastructure of that club and giving the people of Wrexham a good time. There was also American investment in British clubs long before Wrexham.

I don't particularly care if they do go up again. Now they've passed us by, thankfully without having to play them (the only good thing that came out of relegation last season, imo), I'm not bothered about them.

I am sure I read somewhere already that they've sold a stake of the club now to a seperate American investment company. Its about money for them, if they make it to the Championship and sell up they will make money and let someone else take the club back down to their natural level.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

From what i have been led to believe, the only clowns who have actually put money into Wrexham are Netflix.

Well, it's Disney+ that produce their documentary so it would be them, rather than Netflix, that would put be money into them.

Not sure why Reynolds and McElhenney are being called clowns, tbh. Jealousy I guess. They've taken the club up 2 divisions with the investment they've put into the club (whether from their own pockets or sourced from elsewhere), and could well have them in the Championship by August, which will ony garner further interest and investment opportunities for the club. They're improving the infrastructure of that club and giving the people of Wrexham a good time. There was also American investment in British clubs long before Wrexham.

I don't particularly care if they do go up again. Now they've passed us by, thankfully without having to play them (the only good thing that came out of relegation last season, imo), I'm not bothered about them.

I am sure I read somewhere already that they've sold a stake of the club now to a seperate American investment company. Its about money for them, if they make it to the Championship and sell up they will make money and let someone else take the club back down to their natural level.

What would you say is their natural level?

[Robin]

Well, it's Disney+ that produce their documentary so it would be them, rather than Netflix, that would put be money into them.

Not sure why Reynolds and McElhenney are being called clowns, tbh. Jealousy I guess. They've taken the club up 2 divisions with the investment they've put into the club (whether from their own pockets or sourced from elsewhere), and could well have them in the Championship by August, which will ony garner further interest and investment opportunities for the club. They're improving the infrastructure of that club and giving the people of Wrexham a good time. There was also American investment in British clubs long before Wrexham.

I don't particularly care if they do go up again. Now they've passed us by, thankfully without having to play them (the only good thing that came out of relegation last season, imo), I'm not bothered about them.

I am sure I read somewhere already that they've sold a stake of the club now to a seperate American investment company. Its about money for them, if they make it to the Championship and sell up they will make money and let someone else take the club back down to their natural level.

What would you say is their natural level?

Lower leagues based upon their history, clearly not a top tier side and would like still be national league without the huge amounts of investment. I'd say the same for us if our take over happens and we are suddenly pushing towards top end of league one.

[HamTown]

Like Bournemouth, Brentford and Brighton?

[Robin]

Brighton were a top level side for a while before they dropped to the lower leagues Bounemouth and Brentord I completely agree. Although the Cherries got to the top flight thanks to a Russian Billionaire and I'd still argue don't have the infrastructure to even support Championship football long term.

[Wellwisher]

Brighton were a top level side for a while before they dropped to the lower leagues Bounemouth and Brentord I completely agree.

Before their present spell, BHA had four seasons in the top flight (1979/80 to 1982/83), finishing 16th, 19th, 13th and 22nd (though they did reach the FA Cup Final in that last season):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... C._seasons

While BFC had 5 seasons in the top flight just before/after WWII, finishing 5th, 6th, 6th, 18th and 21st in 1946-47. During that spell, they regularly drew crowds of 30k+, had two players capped for England, plus some more for the other British sides. Indeed in 1935/36th, they finished London's top team, ahead of Arsenal and Chelsea:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... C._seasons

Many Bees fans blame the end of their (first) Golden Age on the outbreak of War - another entry on Hitler's lengthy Charge Sheet, along with the Luftwaffe's bombing of Brentford Docks and Gasworks!

[Shade]

If their stadium, infrastructure and crowds have all improved significantly from the crumbled ruin of a club that was there...surely their natural level will be a lot higher than it was? It's a bit like saying our natural level is Southern League/Conference because that's where we were for a long time.

[Wellwisher]

If their stadium, infrastructure and crowds have all improved significantly from the crumbled ruin of a club that was there...surely their natural level will be a lot higher than it was? It's a bit like saying our natural level is Southern League/Conference because that's where we were for a long time.

Unless a 'Sugar Daddy' comes in, and is able/permitted to spend unlimited funds on their favoured club, then you'd have to say every club has a "natural" level beyond which they cannot go over a sustained period.

Ultimately this level boils down to multiple factors such as catchment (esp), location, history and profile/marketing potential etc. Can't comment on Brighton, though as a thriving/growing town, it has probably offered greater potential in the last few decades than during its earlier history.

But as regards Brentford and their catchment, their pre-war crowds/success suggests that properly managed, they might do rather better than bobbing up and down between the third and fourth tiers. And now that Brentford (town) is no longer really Middlesex, but has been subsumed by London's sprawl, the location is clearly favourable to progress. Their History is hardly that of West Ham or Chelsea, never mind Spurs or Arsenal (understatement!), but as against that, they have been an EFL club ever since the league was expanded in 1920, without ever having dropped out of the league. And being a London club offers a higher profile and marketing potential etc than if they were located somewhere in the Provinces. (Sorry)

In my view, they were long a club whose "natural" level was that of a third tier club, who might reach the second tier in a good season, or drop to the fourth tier after a bad one. Now, however, I would class them as easily an established second tier club, capable of making the Premier League after a good season, or maybe dropping down to the third tier when things go wrong.

Indeed I wouldn't necessarily bet against them even becoming long-term established in the PL, assuming their present owner remains at the helm for another long spell, though this would probably depend on finding/building a bigger stadium, which in London would be hugely expensive and problematic (greater understatement!)

And how might all these random musings apply to Cheltenham Town? I am entirely open to correction by those who know far more than me about the club, but after years of being a non-league club (albeit a leading one), I reckon your level is fourth tier i.e. could hit the third in a good season, but could also drop down to National League after a bad one.

And as for the future? Re catchment, a wealthy town of 120k ought to be capable of drawing bigger crowds than the present 4-6k, if reasonably successful in a bigger/better stadium. The location may not be so favourable, since this part of the country seems to me to be as much rugby-supporting as football, arguably more. That said, in the absence of other nearby competitors, there may be the possibility to become "Gloucestershire's Football Club", outwith Bristol at least.

The club's rather less than illustrious history (no offence) is a problem, but if the last 50-odd years hasn't produced a great deal, it doesn't mean that the next 50 cannot move things, were everything else sorted.

Finally, on this question of what I called profile/marketing potential, with 100+ other f-t professional clubs to compete with throughout England, it is hard to see how a club in Cheltenham's position can stand out from the crowd. But even there, occasional examples like Wigan or Wrexham demonstrate that with top leadership, investment and facilities (emphasise), and given time, it should still be possible for Cheltenham to raise their game a level, to being an established third tier club, which might aspire to second tier level in good times, even if they had to drop down to the fourth for a spell when times aren't so good.

But hey, it's just gone midnight, and I'm even boring myself now, never mind any other insomniac nerds who might still be browsing!

[Wellwisher]

Not sure why Reynolds and McElhenney are being called clowns, tbh. Jealousy I guess. They've taken the club up 2 divisions with the investment they've put into the club (whether from their own pockets or sourced from elsewhere), and could well have them in the Championship by August, which will ony garner further interest and investment opportunities for the club.

"Clowns" may be unfair, but I'm pretty sure they've not actually invested any of their money in Wrexham, instead they've lent the club money, and at an interest rate rather more than normal rates (think I read 7 or 8 per cent?).

And having seized upon Wrexham more for their own media ends than any concern for the club/town itself, I've little doubt that they would have pulled out again in double-quick time had the whole venture not taken off as it has.

That said, it obviously has taken off, they're still there, and I doubt that Wrexham fans are too bothered by any of that, since unless it all goes belly-up in a hurry, they're still in a MUCH better position than when they were bumping around in non-league, and should still be in a decent position (improved stadium, bigger support etc) even after the circus has left town.

Good luck to them - even if they are Welsh!