Budget.? /quality / quantity

[Nesty]

Assuming that this years budget is about the same as last years one would have hoped the strength of the squads would be similar. So why have we finished up with 29 players, of which 9 are loans and being honest how many of them, and of the 20 permanents would make the stzrting XI

[Robin]

7 of them are loans not nine and one is a first year pro (Sambu) so probably a bit unfair to count him. For me Goodwin, Adshead, Horton and Chapman don't add much and should be all out on loan or moved on in January.

To answer your question our squad is down to an awful summer of recruitment amplified by mass panic signings in August.

[Broadway Brian]

I agree to a certain extent - the particulars re Horton, Goodwin and Chapman.

I do feel that the zero goals soap opera had already kicked in before the late rush of August signings, and with that set-in panic it’s unfair to judge some signings.

Hopefully Darrell and his Debbie McGee coaching staff will add some calm and experience and help the loanees’s flourish.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Assuming that this years budget is about the same as last years one would have hoped the strength of the squads would be similar. So why have we finished up with 29 players, of which 9 are loans and being honest how many of them, and of the 20 permanents would make the stzrting XI

If our budget is about the same, then that is the cause of the problem. When most clubs at this level improve each year or increase their budgets each year, to stay still means being left behind. That’s why each time we have got up to League One we struggle more with each season we stay up.

[andgarod]

but dont forget we are buying Seasons and installing solar panels
I wonder if the interest rates were fixed or are we being squeezed

The board dont have to worry we have another season in the football league as long as we dont go bust

[Robin]

Assuming that this years budget is about the same as last years one would have hoped the strength of the squads would be similar. So why have we finished up with 29 players, of which 9 are loans and being honest how many of them, and of the 20 permanents would make the stzrting XI

If our budget is about the same, then that is the cause of the problem. When most clubs at this level improve each year or increase their budgets each year, to stay still means being left behind. That’s why each time we have got up to League One we struggle more with each season we stay up.

The board are responsible for finding investment and additional revenue streams to increase the budget can we say they've done that? Also I feel when we come to league one we gradually see our assets (managers, staff and players) picked off and cannot replace them.

[Robin]

but dont forget we are buying Seasons and installing solar panels
I wonder if the interest rates were fixed or are we being squeezed

The board dont have to worry we have another season in the football league as long as we dont go bust

Buying seasons is a positive but we need to see the output of that i.e. are we using it to make money now. Can we build an indoor training space like other clubs that can also be hired out for profit? If the only benefit is that we can borrow more against that asset and perhaps save on the bottom line with a slight decrease in mortgage payments versus rent then it's not adding too much short term.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Assuming that this years budget is about the same as last years one would have hoped the strength of the squads would be similar. So why have we finished up with 29 players, of which 9 are loans and being honest how many of them, and of the 20 permanents would make the stzrting XI

If our budget is about the same, then that is the cause of the problem. When most clubs at this level improve each year or increase their budgets each year, to stay still means being left behind. That’s why each time we have got up to League One we struggle more with each season we stay up.

The board are responsible for finding investment and additional revenue streams to increase the budget can we say they've done that? Also I feel when we come to league one we gradually see our assets (managers, staff and players) picked off and cannot replace them.

Agreed.

JP: “There is a strong argument that three successive seasons in League One is a step too far for Cheltenham Town.….

The club has, however, been here before and the only previous stay of this duration in the third tier very nearly ended in financial oblivion……

It should also be acknowledged that without significant investment, or a sudden growth of fanbase, operating in League One is a monumental stretch for a club run by committed volunteers and without someone to regularly pump additional funding into the wage bill when times become testing…..

The club is currently operating at its absolute limit…The current situation on the field is extreme and worrying, but all but one of the other so-called smaller clubs in League One have budgets far in excess of Cheltenham's, which belongs in the lower reaches of League Two.“

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... es-8794850

[Robin]

That's where we need attention. The club should not be ran totally by volunteers no matter how well intended. We need to fund a full time CEO with a fresh approach, we also need to hear more from the board on what is happening with investment and revenue generation not just the same old answers.

[Anteros]

Why don't we as fans start a go fund me page and raise funds for a project or a new signings in January

[Nesty]

Good idea.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Why don't we as fans start a go fund me page and raise funds for a project or a new signings in January

No no no.

Because a) we might still go down so its a waste of money and b) we will be in the same situation next season anyway even if we stay up and c) many of us already donate to the Trust who invest in the club for the longer term.

Crowdfunders from fans, one off donations from owners, these are just short-term sticking plasters to get through a season or half a season. You can’t rely on a crowdfunder each season to scrape to safety.

We buy season tickets, spend money at the ground and donate to the Trust. If the Club can’t survive in L1 on that income then we have to accept that fact, or the Board need to find ways to increase income.

[kags]

That's where we need attention. The club should not be ran totally by volunteers no matter how well intended. We need to fund a full time CEO with a fresh approach, we also need to hear more from the board on what is happening with investment and revenue generation not just the same old answers.

Great post, 100% agree.

[ctfc-fan]

but dont forget we are buying Seasons and installing solar panels
I wonder if the interest rates were fixed or are we being squeezed

The board dont have to worry we have another season in the football league as long as we dont go bust

Buying seasons is a positive but we need to see the output of that i.e. are we using it to make money now. Can we build an indoor training space like other clubs that can also be hired out for profit? If the only benefit is that we can borrow more against that asset and perhaps save on the bottom line with a slight decrease in mortgage payments versus rent then it's not adding too much short term.

Have you been in Gloucester Rugby’s indoor training centre? Couple of million pounds worth at least and renting that sort of facility out, in my opinion, wouldn’t give a ROI, it would merely be for the benefit of the club and players. Ancillary buildings such as function room, bars and offices would but Seasons does already have these and rents them out.

Also depending on how much the equity is on Seasons doesn’t mean we just borrow more against it, why mortgage ourselves up to the hilt?

[paperboy]

JPs article says that MM's and two other staff leaving should have been handled better.

What should the club have done differently please JP?

Alfie's transfer "could bring in 300k"
Does this mean there are add on clauses such as goals scored or getting promotion please JP?

[Robin]

but dont forget we are buying Seasons and installing solar panels
I wonder if the interest rates were fixed or are we being squeezed

The board dont have to worry we have another season in the football league as long as we dont go bust

Buying seasons is a positive but we need to see the output of that i.e. are we using it to make money now. Can we build an indoor training space like other clubs that can also be hired out for profit? If the only benefit is that we can borrow more against that asset and perhaps save on the bottom line with a slight decrease in mortgage payments versus rent then it's not adding too much short term.

Have you been in Gloucester Rugby’s indoor training centre? Couple of million pounds worth at least and renting that sort of facility out, in my opinion, wouldn’t give a ROI, it would merely be for the benefit of the club and players. Ancillary buildings such as function room, bars and offices would but Seasons does already have these and rents them out.

Also depending on how much the equity is on Seasons doesn’t mean we just borrow more against it, why mortgage ourselves up to the hilt?

I'm not suggesting we borrow more only that we can i.e. help funding the new main stand which is crucial and going to cost us several million. Regarding ROI for indoor training I can't say for sure but schools and other sporting facilities do this so why can't we? It may only generate a small return but it's better than nothing which is why we are struggling right now.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

but dont forget we are buying Seasons and installing solar panels
I wonder if the interest rates were fixed or are we being squeezed

The board dont have to worry we have another season in the football league as long as we dont go bust

Buying seasons is a positive but we need to see the output of that i.e. are we using it to make money now. Can we build an indoor training space like other clubs that can also be hired out for profit? If the only benefit is that we can borrow more against that asset and perhaps save on the bottom line with a slight decrease in mortgage payments versus rent then it's not adding too much short term.

Have you been in Gloucester Rugby’s indoor training centre? Couple of million pounds worth at least and renting that sort of facility out, in my opinion, wouldn’t give a ROI, it would merely be for the benefit of the club and players. Ancillary buildings such as function room, bars and offices would but Seasons does already have these and rents them out.

Also depending on how much the equity is on Seasons doesn’t mean we just borrow more against it, why mortgage ourselves up to the hilt?

The function room and business space don’t look the best based on the website, so have a limited price point.

I agree though; no point building a sports facility to rent out. We would build whatever we need as a club and rent that out if possible.

Also remember we aren’t part-time. So if we are using artificial training pitches every day there is limited time to rent them out.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Buying seasons is a positive but we need to see the output of that i.e. are we using it to make money now. Can we build an indoor training space like other clubs that can also be hired out for profit? If the only benefit is that we can borrow more against that asset and perhaps save on the bottom line with a slight decrease in mortgage payments versus rent then it's not adding too much short term.

Have you been in Gloucester Rugby’s indoor training centre? Couple of million pounds worth at least and renting that sort of facility out, in my opinion, wouldn’t give a ROI, it would merely be for the benefit of the club and players. Ancillary buildings such as function room, bars and offices would but Seasons does already have these and rents them out.

Also depending on how much the equity is on Seasons doesn’t mean we just borrow more against it, why mortgage ourselves up to the hilt?

I'm not suggesting we borrow more only that we can i.e. help funding the new main stand which is crucial and going to cost us several million. Regarding ROI for indoor training I can't say for sure but schools and other sporting facilities do this so why can't we? It may only generate a small return but it's better than nothing which is why we are struggling right now.

Semantics but it is important to be accurate with terminology. Building an indoor training facility is very unlikely to provide an ROI because the investment is so high the revenue generated will never pay back the investment cost.

Sure, renting out the space may earn enough to cover the electricity and hot water bills, or fund some maintenance. This is why schools do it. Because schools get capital grant funding to build it for their own purposes and rent it out to offset running costs.

But no investor will make a return on their investment.

If one of the owners funded it and said don’t worry about paying them back then yes the Club may make an operating profit from renting it out. But if we have to pay back the capital cost I don’t think it would make a profit.

[ctfc-fan]

Exactly RCS. For once you’re talking sense

Gloucester’s indoor training centre has fake grass but then so is their main pitch. Schools normally have hard wearing indoor courts so no comparison really.

[Robin]

Don't we rent Oxtalls out currently for that purpose whilst other clubs have these all weather pitches? I heard it's something we want to do subject to funding.

[paperboy]

Oh, I thought we used to rent Winchcombe Schools outdoor facility or failing that Cirencesters indoor one.
Think the board said an aim was to have a 4g pitch at Seasons, but doubt it would be floodlit which reduces its rental potential.
A dome might be feasible, but Nimby villagers might have something to say about that.
Incidentally the Charity that runs GL1 and Oxstalls tennis centre has just gone belly up.

[longmover]

Oh, I thought we used to rent Winchcombe Schools outdoor facility or failing that Cirencesters indoor one.
Think the board said an aim was to have a 4g pitch at Seasons, but doubt it would be floodlit which reduces its rental potential.
A dome might be feasible, but Nimby villagers might have something to say about that.
Incidentally the Charity that runs GL1 and Oxstalls tennis centre has just gone belly up.

how that has been allowed to end up how it has is a total disgrace.

[ctfc-fan]

Oh, I thought we used to rent Winchcombe Schools outdoor facility or failing that Cirencesters indoor one.
Think the board said an aim was to have a 4g pitch at Seasons, but doubt it would be floodlit which reduces its rental potential.
A dome might be feasible, but Nimby villagers might have something to say about that.
Incidentally the Charity that runs GL1 and Oxstalls tennis centre has just gone belly up.

how that has been allowed to end up how it has is a total disgrace.

A lot of these companies are though due to the massively increased running costs of this sort of venue. Must cost a fortune to heat the pool etc.

[longmover]

Oh, I thought we used to rent Winchcombe Schools outdoor facility or failing that Cirencesters indoor one.
Think the board said an aim was to have a 4g pitch at Seasons, but doubt it would be floodlit which reduces its rental potential.
A dome might be feasible, but Nimby villagers might have something to say about that.
Incidentally the Charity that runs GL1 and Oxstalls tennis centre has just gone belly up.

how that has been allowed to end up how it has is a total disgrace.

A lot of these companies are though due to the massively increased running costs of this sort of venue. Must cost a fortune to heat the pool etc.

But how has a facility like that been allowed to be run into the ground to a point where one day the doors are locked and staff told they're now unemployed, where there no red flags or any help offered?

[Jerry St Clair]

That's where we need attention. The club should not be ran totally by volunteers no matter how well intended. We need to fund a full time CEO with a fresh approach, we also need to hear more from the board on what is happening with investment and revenue generation not just the same old answers.

Lots of interesting, creative ideas on this thread.

But this post by Robin is the absolute nub of it. A good CEO will be worth their absolute weight in gold and will take pressure off the part-timers. As with players, I'm sure we could offer a good opportunity for a talented, up and coming senior administrator from lower down the pyramid.

[paperboy]

how that has been allowed to end up how it has is a total disgrace.

A lot of these companies are though due to the massively increased running costs of this sort of venue. Must cost a fortune to heat the pool etc.

But how has a facility like that been allowed to be run into the ground to a point where one day the doors are locked and staff told they're now unemployed, where there no red flags or any help offered?

I started the drift off -topic so apologies, but here is a comprehensive update.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... al-8796875

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

That's where we need attention. The club should not be ran totally by volunteers no matter how well intended. We need to fund a full time CEO with a fresh approach, we also need to hear more from the board on what is happening with investment and revenue generation not just the same old answers.

Lots of interesting, creative ideas on this thread.

But this post by Robin is the absolute nub of it. A good CEO will be worth their absolute weight in gold and will take pressure off the part-timers. As with players, I'm sure we could offer a good opportunity for a talented, up and coming senior administrator from lower down the pyramid.

A new CEO could also think of other ways to build capacity in the Club.

The business school at the University of Gloucestershire offers Global MBAs, including two year courses with one of the years being an industry placement. Their Global MBAs all have core modules, and then specialist modules depending on which MBA is being studied. One of the MBAs is Sports Governance and Leadership. They have others for hospitality management, marketing, etc.

The CEO could benefit by hosting an industry placement at the Club each year.

[Fuller]

That's where we need attention. The club should not be ran totally by volunteers no matter how well intended. We need to fund a full time CEO with a fresh approach, we also need to hear more from the board on what is happening with investment and revenue generation not just the same old answers.

Lots of interesting, creative ideas on this thread.

But this post by Robin is the absolute nub of it. A good CEO will be worth their absolute weight in gold and will take pressure off the part-timers. As with players, I'm sure we could offer a good opportunity for a talented, up and coming senior administrator from lower down the pyramid.

A new CEO could also think of other ways to build capacity in the Club.

The business school at the University of Gloucestershire offers Global MBAs, including two year courses with one of the years being an industry placement. Their Global MBAs all have core modules, and then specialist modules depending on which MBA is being studied. One of the MBAs is Sports Governance and Leadership. They have others for hospitality management, marketing, etc.

The CEO could benefit by hosting an industry placement at the Club each year.

A truly excellent suggestion RCS.
Will it (ever) happen? I don’t think so.
I don’t think anything will change in the way our club is run. How will it?

[paperboy]

That's where we need attention. The club should not be ran totally by volunteers no matter how well intended. We need to fund a full time CEO with a fresh approach, we also need to hear more from the board on what is happening with investment and revenue generation not just the same old answers.

Lots of interesting, creative ideas on this thread.

But this post by Robin is the absolute nub of it. A good CEO will be worth their absolute weight in gold and will take pressure off the part-timers. As with players, I'm sure we could offer a good opportunity for a talented, up and coming senior administrator from lower down the pyramid.

A new CEO could also think of other ways to build capacity in the Club.

The business school at the University of Gloucestershire offers Global MBAs, including two year courses with one of the years being an industry placement. Their Global MBAs all have core modules, and then specialist modules depending on which MBA is being studied. One of the MBAs is Sports Governance and Leadership. They have others for hospitality management, marketing, etc.

The CEO could benefit by hosting an industry placement at the Club each year.

Laudable aspiration to employ a CEO ,but my concern would be that they would have to get the boards approval for many things and they would just be a glorified manager.
The Commercial Manager role has been a constant revolving door of personnel and anyone half-decent would command a decent salary and just use us as a stepping stone to greater things.

[RegencyCheltenhamSpa]

Lots of interesting, creative ideas on this thread.

But this post by Robin is the absolute nub of it. A good CEO will be worth their absolute weight in gold and will take pressure off the part-timers. As with players, I'm sure we could offer a good opportunity for a talented, up and coming senior administrator from lower down the pyramid.

A new CEO could also think of other ways to build capacity in the Club.

The business school at the University of Gloucestershire offers Global MBAs, including two year courses with one of the years being an industry placement. Their Global MBAs all have core modules, and then specialist modules depending on which MBA is being studied. One of the MBAs is Sports Governance and Leadership. They have others for hospitality management, marketing, etc.

The CEO could benefit by hosting an industry placement at the Club each year.

Laudable aspiration to employ a CEO ,but my concern would be that they would have to get the boards approval for many things and they would just be a glorified manager.
The Commercial Manager role has been a constant revolving door of personnel and anyone half-decent would command a decent salary and just use us as a stepping stone to greater things.

Yes the Board would have to change mindset and give the CEO more autonomy.

I don’t see a problem with us being a stepping stone though. Good leaders will always be in demand so there will always be opportunities for them to move to bigger and better roles. I’d rather someone did a good job here and left after 2-3 years, than having someone for 10 years because they are doing a bad job and no one else wants them.